hindsight2020 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think anyone who has flown under the Tac C2 in OEF has earned their hostile fire/combat pay, tanker or not. Just going out there every day and not getting killed by ATC or some UAV pilot who doesnt understand how to set his altimeter properly should be enough to warrant the pay. I guess if I had my way if your shop is not manned 7 days a week, no hostile fire pay for you (Just keeping it real for our maintainers) pfff under that logic I should get HDP for flying 2-a-day everyday in and out of the 'Dilf (DLF). You know these controllers are in training too up in here right? Besides, the place looks just like the 'Stan, it is remote already, we get dust storms too, people are dying across the fence by the boatloads and the locals are hostile. Yep, HDP please. Fvck, remote tour credit would be nice. :D Joking aside, the implementation would be a nightmare, but I agree with the essence of what the dude is saying. We all have a price it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Pipes Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I'm just going to throw this out there... I'm not saying it is justification to keep it, but it is a reality. Those of you in the MAF at a base with both AD and RES or Guard can probably attest to this. When you have the weekly/monthly mission buy for all the Squadrons, the Reserve Squadrons could usually pick whatever missions they wanted provided they weren't activated. They normally had plenty of guys on orders and almost always picked a fair amount of downrange missions even though they didn't have to. These guys wanted to be in the fight just as much as anyone else, but having the Tax Free incentive is obviously a big draw and is a big relief for the AD guys. Anytime they took the 10 day downrange mission while we were able to put one of our crews on the 3 day CONUS run it was a huge relief for us and a win/win for everyone. You take that incentive away and you add that much more pressure to an AD unit that is already running their crews into the ground. We rely heavily on our Guard/Reserve brothers to make the mission happen, we can't do it without them. Probably not the PC answer, but it is reality. Oh, and I'm not a Tanker guy, but I will throw them a bone. That Marine on the ground shooting it out with the bad guys calls in the A-10 or Strike Eagle or Viper when things get really bad... those guys are there and ready to drop when they call. Now unless they invented that jet engine that runs on air and I didn't hear about it, the reason they have been overhead for the past 6-7 hrs and are ready to drop when the call came is because there was a tanker up there with them. Did they get shot at... no. But lets not compare these guys to the Finance airman sitting at the Deid giving the inprocessing brief about family separation pay. Edited February 8, 2012 by Rusty Pipes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Condition Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I noticed that he was pretty quick to note how "no fixed-wing plane has been shot down by the enemy in this war." Yet, he fails to mention how no enemy aircraft has fired upon friendly troops. While we're on that topic, no enemy aircraft has fired upon friendly troops since the Korean War. I'd be happy to see him and all his ungrateful, dipshit, army friends write every aircrew member a check for the countless lives we've saved for the last 60 years. This article reeks of "generation me." He has grown up in a country that not only demands, but expects air supremacy. Who the ###### provides that air supremacy? Our nation's entire defense doctrine is predicated on control of the air. As the AF gets further and further marginalized by the dumbass army leadership, I've been saying for years, that we need to just "take a few weeks off" to "learn" them some appreciation. Oh, and turn off all the GPS constellation and all of our ISR assets while we're at it. What's the worst that could happen - protract this 11+ year war? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finance_Guy Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) But lets not compare these guys to the Finance airman sitting at the Deid giving the inprocessing brief about family separation pay. Let's not compare finance airman either since I was one of those airman--went on a few 130 runs, or whatever was flying uprange, to delivery the cash to the forward operating locations; we call them Jingle Runs. Not that we do that day in and day out, but finance isn't just about giving you a dumb ass briefing on FSA, which by the way most frequent travelers know better than most finance airmen. Someone has to get the cash to those locations. All I'm trying to say is when they do the jingle runs they are subject to the same "danger" as the aircrew during that mission....just saying. Edited February 8, 2012 by Finance_Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Pipes Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Let's not compare finance airman either since I was one of those airman--went on a few 130 runs, or whatever was flying uprange, to delivery the cash to the forward operating locations; we call them Jingle Runs. Not that we do that day in and day out, but finance isn't just about giving you a dumb ass briefing on FSA, which by the way most frequent travelers know better than most finance airmen. Someone has to get the cash to those locations. All I'm trying to say is when they do the jingle runs they are subject to the same "danger" as the aircrew during that mission....just saying. Fine... everyone is a warrior! How about A1C Snuffy doing escort duty watching TCNs take 3 months to build a bus stop at the Deid consisting of 4 metal posts and a plastic roof? Better example?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1234 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's times like these that I'm glad random joes in the military who write blogs to the Washington Post aren't in charge of making policy for a government agency that employs 2 million people. This must be the first time in the history of warfare where someone on the front lines whined about "those fat cat generals and staff guys in the rear". Mark the date. You may never see this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Notice that the conditions were horrible for him: " In the summer, temperatures routinely passed 100 degrees and our AC units would crash. It took several minutes to get hot water in the shower, if it came. Food consisted of two warm trays of heated . . . stuff, if we didn’t eat MREs. A snowstorm could knock out the satellite television feed and the Internet, as one did on Super Bowl Sunday. In short, conditions were spartan." Spartan, really? I track the argument of outside the wire vs REMF. However, this dude invalidated his credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Oh, and I'm not a Tanker guy, but I will throw them a bone. That Marine on the ground shooting it out with the bad guys calls in the A-10 or Strike Eagle or Viper when things get really bad... those guys are there and ready to drop when they call. Now unless they invented that jet engine that runs on air and I didn't hear about it, the reason they have been overhead for the past 6-7 hrs and are ready to drop when the call came is because there was a tanker up there with them. Did they get shot at... no. But lets not compare these guys to the Finance airman sitting at the Deid giving the inprocessing brief about family separation pay. Thanks for illustrating why everyone gets the pay. You want a hard and fast rule, but you are already making exceptions to suit your tastes. Let's make the rule as exclusive as possible, but damnit, don't exclude me! Fine... everyone is a warrior! How about A1C Snuffy doing escort duty watching TCNs take 3 months to build a bus stop at the Deid consisting of 4 metal posts and a plastic roof? Better example?!? And you are a warrior? I sure as hell hope you are a STO or something after throwing that spear. I'm sure there are a few true warriors on this board, but most of you guys who make the warrior argument are pretty lost. I'm no warrior, but I'm proud to have supported those that are. Edited February 10, 2012 by frog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thanks for illustrating why everyone gets the pay. You want a hard and fast rule, but you are already making exceptions to suit your tastes. Let's make the rule as exclusive as possible, but damnit, don't exclude me! And you are a warrior? I sure as hell hope you are a STO or something after throwing that spear. I'm sure there are a few true warriors on this board, but most of you guys who make the warrior argument are pretty lost. I'm no warrior, but I'm proud to have supported those that are. Easy, killer. I think the AF is simply too PC nowadays. I was a maintainer when I started out as a 17 year old kid. Then, I was taught that an airbase's sole purpose was to launch airplanes and get shit done. Every damn thing/person on that base existed to get those aircraft airborne and back. Now, everyone is special and important - we even have Air Base Wings.....WTF...where feelings are important and the sole mission is to support the buildings! "I'm sure there are a few true warriors on this board, but most of you guys who make the warrior argument are pretty lost. I'm no warrior, but I'm proud to have supported those that are." Then who the F are you supporting? Having started as a kid supporting the warriors, (aka pilots...the guy who taught me this stuff was an ex combat controller who was injured and turned maintainer by the way), and now I'm a pilot - I have to say you are the lost one. Hell, you said, "I'm no warrior....but" WTF are they teaching at BMT these days....Everyone is special and we all have feelings class? Damn, I'm getting old and crusty and I'm not that old yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grind Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Everyone is special and we all have feelings class? Reminds me of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Then who the F are you supporting? Having started as a kid supporting the warriors, (aka pilots...the guy who taught me this stuff was an ex combat controller who was injured and turned maintainer by the way), and now I'm a pilot - I have to say you are the lost one. Hell, you said, "I'm no warrior....but" WTF are they teaching at BMT these days....Everyone is special and we all have feelings class? Damn, I'm getting old and crusty and I'm not that old yet 10th MTN and 4th ID. You? And you completely missed the point. None of us are special. Failure for reading comprehension. Keep up the circle jerk though, it sounds like you are really enjoying it. Edited February 10, 2012 by frog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 10th MTN and 4th ID. You? And you completely missed the point. None of us are special. Failure for reading comprehension. Keep up the circle jerk though, it sounds like you are really enjoying it. Agree my rant was slightly off target from your post - I just get sick of the argument about who's important, who's supporting who etc. Ask any aircrew why he is doing his mission and he'd tell you it's in support of (army, marines, on the ground or to deliver food to refugees....or whatever). Outside of aircrew, it gets delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Jesus, are we really bitching about who deserves more "special" pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Agree my rant was slightly off target from your post - I just get sick of the argument about who's important, who's supporting who etc. Ask any aircrew why he is doing his mission and he'd tell you it's in support of (army, marines, on the ground or to deliver food to refugees....or whatever). Outside of aircrew, it gets delusional. I'm a support dude, but I agree that the priorities get mixed up. Just remember there are some good dudes on the support side, too. Most of them either get stepped on or jump ship before they have a chance to fix things. Sorry about my rant...my eight month old has been puking on me for three days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Condition Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'm a support dude, but I agree that the priorities get mixed up. Just remember there are some good dudes on the support side, too. Most of them either get stepped on or jump ship before they have a chance to fix things. Sorry about my rant...my eight month old has been puking on me for three days. We all know that there are a lot of good dudes on the support side. I'm sure you're one of them, and I'd happily throw down a few beers with you. What most of us can't stand on here are the shoes who believe that their j-o-b is THE MISSION. They fail to realize that their job is to support the mission(s). They've been brainwashed to believe that we can't win without proper sock height, tucked shirts, reflective belts, "combat" showers, and emphasizing everyone's "diversity" (unless of course, they happen to be a white male). I'm sure I have unintentionally stepped on someone during my career as I have been stepped on. I choose to put on my big-boy pants when I get dressed in the morning. Apparently they don't issue those anymore, because I see a lot of folks running around with their panties in a wad these days. Thanks for what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 They fail to realize that their job is to support the mission(s). Like all the pilots who think what they do is something other than to support the mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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