Reservist rights with employer

[Guest guard/reserve hopeful]

Anyone have a good reference or FAQ site they can give that spells out what an employer is required to do for reservists/guardsmen when it comes to their Drills, TP's, or "Mil leave" as some call it?

Iv done some searching but most my web results refer to a reservists rights when they are called up for a deployment and how the employer must hold their job. I’m not looking for that, just regular rights when it comes to the basics as mentioned above. Thanks!

[Guest Ftrooper91]

Anyone have a good reference or FAQ site they can give that spells out what an employer is required to do for reservists/guardsmen when it comes to their Drills, TP's, or "Mil leave" as some call it?

Iv done some searching but most my web results refer to a reservists rights when they are called up for a deployment and how the employer must hold their job. I’m not looking for that, just regular rights when it comes to the basics as mentioned above. Thanks!

www.esgr.org

There are a zillion references regarding USERRA and phone numbers/email addresses for the ombudsmen program. Those guys absolutely rock, they deal with a huge number of "grey area" issues and can really help steer you in the right direction.

Also voluntary vs involuntary got changed so ther is no longer a difference. And IDT(UTA's and TP's etc) vs ADT are both covered under USERRA.

Significant changes in military leave of absence management include:

An employee no longer requests permission to be absent for military leave but rather provides notification of pending military service.

There is no longer any differentiation between voluntary and involuntary service

An employee cannot be required to use earned vacation or similar leave days for military leave of absence

Military service will not be counted as time away from the employer for retirement purposes (Federal employees should review the Code of Federal Regulations, series 5 CFR 353.201-210 for details related to their employment.)

From my info I think that the ONLY people who have a problem are Guard folks who are called up for State duty and then it goes by whatever state laws you have regarding that type of service, not USERRA.

Hope this helps.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Ftrooper91

[GW]

To add to Ftroopr91's info:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/resources/j...0060604112.html

GW

[Guest elcidwill]

If you are going into an interview do not bring up guard or reserve status. I heard they can't ask you anyway. More and more these days, employers are avoiding people in the reserve or guard components. Once you are in the door though, legally you are protected.

[dontshavemyhead]

are you saying to not even put it under work history?

can't you get canned for omitting previous employers?

[Guest Ftrooper91]

I would always be up front about your Reserve status. If you are in the Guard or Reserves now then say so. You don't really have to go into future plans/career choices etc so if you are aspiring to a flying position but right now just do the traditional 2 days a month type stuff I could see not going into the UPT training discussion (you should hire me but in 6 months I'm out the door for two years!) but I think you should not hide anything regarding your current status. A lot of employers understand and value people in the ARC, just as there those that are gunshy after having a lot of their folks leave for up to two years and possibly looking at more activations down the road. Not being up front makes it just that much harder for the next guy/gal in the door. Plus there's the whole ethical argument which you already know. Check the USERRA info for what you are required to inform an employer but even if there's no requirement I still say tell them, it's unfair to not do so I think. The employer has a legitimate difficulty with staffing and training costs due to Guard/Reserve employees increasing committments. I hear that issue is being addressed to try and recompense companies and local government bodies for the sacrifice they are also making.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Ftrooper91

[Guest elcidwill]

FTrooper I agree with you. I should have been more thorough in my post. You mentioned the scenario I am in...waiting for the UPT board. I would not conceal my status or intentionally decieve an employer-I just wouldn't highlight the fact that I may disappear 6 months into a new job.

I think the smartest avenue is to discuss your military status when you actually get a job offer. That way all the cards are on the table, and an unscrupulous person in HR did not have the chance to take you out of the running over someone who is a conventional employee.

At the end of the day I have a house and a family to worry about just like everyone else. The clock is ticking. My post was based on the two CGO recruiters that have noticed a trend and told me to keep my mouth shut on the topic.

There are a lot of military friendly companies that put their money where their mouth is. The trick is finding them.

Edited March 19, 2007 by elcidwill

[JS]

I had a question about Reservist rights that I could not find through the search function or through the ESGR website FAQ's.

In general, do ESGR reemployment rights apply to a spouses job in addition to the reservists job after an activation. For example, my wife and I work in the local area. If I am sent TDY to a school for 6 months and she leaves her job to accompany me, must HER employer hold her job for her as well as mine?

[Butters]

I had a question about Reservist rights that I could not find through the search function or through the ESGR website FAQ's.

In general, do ESGR reemployment rights apply to a spouses job in addition to the reservists job after an activation. For example, my wife and I work in the local area. If I am sent TDY to a school for 6 months and she leaves her job to accompany me, must HER employer hold her job for her as well as mine?

No, the employer is not obligated, but they may consider it.

[hindsight2020]

With the increased participation Guard and Reserve unit now require under the recent TFI shenanigans, I think people overestimate the real world outcome of civilian employer's compliance when it comes to giving you a job, holding a job for you, and promoting you. The reality of the matter is that the Guard reserve gig was modeled after the airline pilot schedule, for the 9-5 types the model is ackward at best.

I'm a bum right now but I've done some sniffing on the civi employment and let me tell you, there is no way one can do the 9-5 thing and comply with the participation requirements (6-8 days a month, sometimes lumped together) most units require and expect the civilian employer to be kosher with ya. yea you can play hardball and tell them you're gonna take a week a month off for your Guard/Reserve duty, but good luck having the political good faith relationship with your employer to move up the food chain. They don't mind 6-8 days when you do that on your weekends or at night (so long it's after 5..yea right), but you touch that 9-5 and you're gonna get pushback and if you think it's as easy as going to court and saying 'hey these guys are asking me about my military affiliation' you've hit your head. They can come up with a ton of reasons why your impinging on the 9-5 is not conducive to their business functionality, and the court will side with them for telling ya it's not working out.

I just don't buy the idea that people would have a leg to stand on by trying to prove their guard/reserve status is the reason they didn't get the job, or that after getting the job telling the boss 'hey i need a week off every month for the unit' and the boss kicking you out the door and you having a case in court. You'd probably lose. As much rah rah post-911,most 9-5 employers I've come to find rather reserve unfriendly when you ask them to 'do more with less', just like your Guard leadership asks you to......just sayin'......

[JS]

With the increased participation Guard and Reserve unit now require under the recent TFI shenanigans, I think people overestimate the real world outcome of civilian employer's compliance when it comes to giving you a job, holding a job for you, and promoting you. The reality of the matter is that the Guard reserve gig was modeled after the airline pilot schedule, for the 9-5 types the model is ackward at best.

I'm a bum right now but I've done some sniffing on the civi employment and let me tell you, there is no way one can do the 9-5 thing and comply with the participation requirements (6-8 days a month, sometimes lumped together) most units require and expect the civilian employer to be kosher with ya. yea you can play hardball and tell them you're gonna take a week a month off for your Guard/Reserve duty, but good luck having the political good faith relationship with your employer to move up the food chain. They don't mind 6-8 days when you do that on your weekends or at night (so long it's after 5..yea right), but you touch that 9-5 and you're gonna get pushback and if you think it's as easy as going to court and saying 'hey these guys are asking me about my military affiliation' you've hit your head. They can come up with a ton of reasons why your impinging on the 9-5 is not conducive to their business functionality, and the court will side with them for telling ya it's not working out.

I just don't buy the idea that people would have a leg to stand on by trying to prove their guard/reserve status is the reason they didn't get the job, or that after getting the job telling the boss 'hey i need a week off every month for the unit' and the boss kicking you out the door and you having a case in court. You'd probably lose. As much rah rah post-911,most 9-5 employers I've come to find rather reserve unfriendly when you ask them to 'do more with less', just like your Guard leadership asks you to......just sayin'......

Concur. A lot of this is just good to know to threaten bosses, landlords, etc. As a side note, I had just finished my master's through my civilian employer before joining the Air Force. They paid for it and required a 2-year commitment. When I left for the Air Force, the human resources person asked me for 90%, or whatever, back for the cost of the school. I told her that I was not quitting, but just going on leave for 5 years. That was over 6 years ago, and sure enough, she emailed me a few months ago and let me know that they were going to close me off their books. She never asked for the money back, since my military time was still considered with the company.

[Bergman]

With the increased participation Guard and Reserve unit now require under the recent TFI shenanigans, I think people overestimate the real world outcome of civilian employer's compliance when it comes to giving you a job, holding a job for you, and promoting you. The reality of the matter is that the Guard reserve gig was modeled after the airline pilot schedule, for the 9-5 types the model is ackward at best.

I'm a bum right now but I've done some sniffing on the civi employment and let me tell you, there is no way one can do the 9-5 thing and comply with the participation requirements (6-8 days a month, sometimes lumped together) most units require and expect the civilian employer to be kosher with ya. yea you can play hardball and tell them you're gonna take a week a month off for your Guard/Reserve duty, but good luck having the political good faith relationship with your employer to move up the food chain. They don't mind 6-8 days when you do that on your weekends or at night (so long it's after 5..yea right), but you touch that 9-5 and you're gonna get pushback and if you think it's as easy as going to court and saying 'hey these guys are asking me about my military affiliation' you've hit your head. They can come up with a ton of reasons why your impinging on the 9-5 is not conducive to their business functionality, and the court will side with them for telling ya it's not working out.

I just don't buy the idea that people would have a leg to stand on by trying to prove their guard/reserve status is the reason they didn't get the job, or that after getting the job telling the boss 'hey i need a week off every month for the unit' and the boss kicking you out the door and you having a case in court. You'd probably lose. As much rah rah post-911,most 9-5 employers I've come to find rather reserve unfriendly when you ask them to 'do more with less', just like your Guard leadership asks you to......just sayin'......

SHACK. I've been doing the 9-5 thing for 3 years now and I concur with everything you said. If you try to have a legitimate civilian career (read: promotions, responsibility, etc) you will either kill yourself working 70-80 hours per week between both places and never see your family because you are still flying 1-2 nights per week and on weekends, or you will min-run the guard unit which will tank your career there. Pick your poison. Especially for the new guys, min-running really isn't an option. As evidenced by the FedEx crash earlier this week, this flying business is the real deal. Trying to get by with only 1-2 sorties per month (even if the unit would put up with that level of participation) just isn't a good idea.

My advice to anyone considering a civilian job while being on flying status would be to be as upfront as possible with the employer about the time required. If not, someone is going to get pissed and it won't work out for the long haul. Even then, it will still be a challenge IMHO.

[JS]

SHACK. I've been doing the 9-5 thing for 3 years now and I concur with everything you said. If you try to have a legitimate civilian career (read: promotions, responsibility, etc) you will either kill yourself working 70-80 hours per week between both places and never see your family because you are still flying 1-2 nights per week and on weekends, or you will min-run the guard unit which will tank your career there. Pick your poison. Especially for the new guys, min-running really isn't an option. As evidenced by the FedEx crash earlier this week, this flying business is the real deal. Trying to get by with only 1-2 sorties per month (even if the unit would put up with that level of participation) just isn't a good idea.

My advice to anyone considering a civilian job while being on flying status would be to be as upfront as possible with the employer about the time required. If not, someone is going to get pissed and it won't work out for the long haul. Even then, it will still be a challenge IMHO.

I agree again. We have a bunch of folks who run their own businesses on the side doing things like contracting, fixing computers, financial services, etc. and that seems to work out OK.

[sledy]

Anybody have any insight into seniority based (i.e. airlines) and returning to work in regards to bid status.

Example, I left as an F/O in equipment A, and can now hold Captain in equipment A and B. When I choose to return, can I choose both the seat and equipment I can return to? We have no company policy against it as far as I can tell in our contract, just curious about USERRA rules for seniority based companies.

Thanks in advance

Sledy

[Danny Noonin]

can I choose both the seat and equipment I can return to?

typically, so long as there has been a bid since you left, you can pick whatever seat/jet/domicile you can hold...as if you had been there for the bid

try talking to your union guys. They'll know the deal at your company

[tlr9489]

I was hired back in June for a UPT pilot slot with the Guard. I told my employer soon afterwards and gave them an overview of what was involved. We talked about how I would document my job to be able to hand off when I left for training. I thought at the time I was doing the right thing... Soon after, they hired a more experienced manager to oversee my job in a part-time role. I began to get phased out of a lot of meetings, that I had previously ran. I definitely felt like this was because of coming forward about the Guard gig. Initially, my employer had asked what I needed from them, and I said there may be instances where I need to field phone calls for admin stuff for the Guard- clearance, medical, etc., but generally, I expect it to be business as usual. They seemed good with it, and said they were flexible as long as the work got done. I have worked really hard and I am delivering results. I even have been getting really positive feedback from my old boss (VP)... Then, earlier this week I was pulled into a meeting by HR and asked for an update on my Guard situation. I explained I am still waiting for my training dates, but wouldn't expect to go anywhere till February at the earliest. To that I got a strange reaction from the COO (heads HR). I told him that I would try to get more info from my unit at Oct. Drill. He had said he was looking to set the budget for the next year and wanted a general timeframe. I told him it was just a guess that Feb. would be the earliest I'd be leaving, and it was obvious by his reaction that he was hoping it would be sooner... Yesterday, I received a meeting request from the COO and my old boss, a company VP, that just had a subject of "business review". I walked into the meeting this morning not sure what to expect, and was immediately told my employment was being terminated by end of the week (tomorrow)... I was stunned. The reasons given were vague and all over the place. It is very obvious to me that it is because of the Guard commitment. I have never received any verbal or written warnings, and like I said, I have been told several times recently that I am doing a great job. I care a lot about my job, and I'm crushed that this had to happen this way. I have been told that it is an open and shut case of discrimination for being in the Guard by a few people who understand employment law and USERRA. I am worried that being let go will affect my security clearance. I don't know if I should talk to my squadron for advice. I haven't signed anything from my employer, and didn't collect the paperwork- they wanted me to come in Monday to handle that, and I'd like to get my info straight before then... Any help?? Please advise. Thank you.

[Gov]

Will not affect security clearance. Call the legal and P/A guys at your unit.

That being said, the hardest part of dealing with USERRA cases are the commitment of the employee to follow through with them (fear of retribution, future hostile work environment, etc.).

I've staved off a few potential issues with letters to employers - first a nice one.

Good luck on this.

[mp5g]

I was hired back in June for a UPT pilot slot with the Guard. I told my employer soon afterwards and gave them an overview of what was involved. We talked about how I would document my job to be able to hand off when I left for training. I thought at the time I was doing the right thing... Soon after, they hired a more experienced manager to oversee my job in a part-time role. I began to get phased out of a lot of meetings, that I had previously ran. I definitely felt like this was because of coming forward about the Guard gig. Initially, my employer had asked what I needed from them, and I said there may be instances where I need to field phone calls for admin stuff for the Guard- clearance, medical, etc., but generally, I expect it to be business as usual. They seemed good with it, and said they were flexible as long as the work got done. I have worked really hard and I am delivering results. I even have been getting really positive feedback from my old boss (VP)... Then, earlier this week I was pulled into a meeting by HR and asked for an update on my Guard situation. I explained I am still waiting for my training dates, but wouldn't expect to go anywhere till February at the earliest. To that I got a strange reaction from the COO (heads HR). I told him that I would try to get more info from my unit at Oct. Drill. He had said he was looking to set the budget for the next year and wanted a general timeframe. I told him it was just a guess that Feb. would be the earliest I'd be leaving, and it was obvious by his reaction that he was hoping it would be sooner... Yesterday, I received a meeting request from the COO and my old boss, a company VP, that just had a subject of "business review". I walked into the meeting this morning not sure what to expect, and was immediately told my employment was being terminated by end of the week (tomorrow)... I was stunned. The reasons given were vague and all over the place. It is very obvious to me that it is because of the Guard commitment. I have never received any verbal or written warnings, and like I said, I have been told several times recently that I am doing a great job. I care a lot about my job, and I'm crushed that this had to happen this way. I have been told that it is an open and shut case of discrimination for being in the Guard by a few people who understand employment law and USERRA. I am worried that being let go will affect my security clearance. I don't know if I should talk to my squadron for advice. I haven't signed anything from my employer, and didn't collect the paperwork- they wanted me to come in Monday to handle that, and I'd like to get my info straight before then... Any help?? Please advise. Thank you.

tlr,

Sorry to hear that. Real class act from your company. I'd say it sounds like you definitely have grounds for a lawsuit if you choose to go that route. If they want you to come in sign paperwork, I'd make sure you state your case to HR that you feel like you are being discriminated against due to your employment with the Guard, and you plan to seek legal recourse against the company. (Just be sure if you go that route, what you said above - "never received any verbal or written warnings, and like I said, I have been told several times recently that I am doing a great job" is actually the truth and not something you are telling yourself since this hit you out of "left field".)

That being said, I had some issues I felt with my company due to my Guard employment. I felt that I was being unfairly passed over for promotion because they knew I was going to be leaving for UPT and training for an extended time period. I took my case to my manager and HR and let them know that I felt I was being discrimnated against due to my employment with the Guard. I eventually got promoted after that, but I made sure that when I called the company out on something, I had data to back up my claims that I wasn't a shit-bag employee. I hope this works out for you man. At the end of the day, it's a bad situation, but you still get to leave and fly planes for the USAF whatever the outcome of this is.

Good luck man.

[Daredevileng1]

Tlr,

ESGR . Besides award for companies (probably to late for your company to receive that) they offer trained personnel, Ombudsmen, for mediation between companies and employees. You should have a local ESGR field committee near you to help with this. Your base should know who to contact. If not their website has contact info.

Hope this works out for you,

DD

[shift]

I had a question about Reservist rights that I could not find through the search function or through the ESGR website FAQ's.

In general, do ESGR reemployment rights apply to a spouses job in addition to the reservists job after an activation. For example, my wife and I work in the local area. If I am sent TDY to a school for 6 months and she leaves her job to accompany me, must HER employer hold her job for her as well as mine?

Has anyone's spouse ever used FMLA time? Would UPT count as a qualifying exigency? My fiance is a teacher and has been employed there for over 2 years. I have not been picked up anywhere yet, just trying to forecast for the future. I am applying to Guard units and we would like to live in the same area we are now after training. It would be nice if she could hold on to her current job and go with me to UPT. This is straight from her contract.

6.04 FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE

6.04.1 Eligible employees may use family and medical leave, guaranteed by the federal Family and Medical Leave Act, for up to a combined total of 60 work days each year, beginning July 1 and ending June 30 of the next year, and as otherwise taken in accordance with this Agreement and the District’s FMLA policy.

6.04.2 Family and medical leave is available in one or more of the following instances:

...

e. The existence of a qualifying exigency arising out of the fact the employee’s spouse, son, daughter, or parent is on covered active duty (or has been notified of an impending call or order to covered active duty) in the Armed Forces.

[mp5g]

6.04 FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE

6.04.1 Eligible employees may use family and medical leave, guaranteed by the federal Family and Medical Leave Act, for up to a combined total of 60 work days each year, beginning July 1 and ending June 30 of the next year, and as otherwise taken in accordance with this Agreement and the District’s

Regardless if she can use it or not, she's only guaranteed 60 working days per year (July-June).

Methinks she will probably not be going to UPT with you if she wants to keep her job.

[JS]

I emailed someone at the ESGR a while back, and he got back to me stating that there is no protection for spouses jobs when the member goes TDY somewhere like UPT.

[HeyWatchThis]

I emailed someone at the ESGR a while back, and he got back to me stating that there is no protection for spouses jobs when the member goes TDY somewhere like UPT.

I believe she can file for unemployment though since it was a forced move, lost her job, because of being a mil spouse...