Chida

A point of confusion is the concept of "holding grade". Used to be, prior to 1996 if I recall, if you wore the rank even 1 day, you held it. After 96, the concept of Time-in-grade was introduced in order to cause people to serve longer and to save money on those that refused to serve longer. One can only "hold" their rank now if they meet the Time-in-grade. ARPC & AFPC institutionally have never quite figured this out and it shows in the AFI's bc they only discuss "holding grade" in the context of an officer grade determination which is quite another subject. So when ARPC says you'll go to the Retired Reserve with your HGH (highest grade held), people incorrectly take that to mean the "highest grade attained" and that is a fundamental misunderstanding of what HGH means. Not to belabor the point, but I quite enjoy foiling the machinations of AF whenever I can: Another point of confusion is the concept of "satisfactory service" which has quite different meanings depending on the context. For someone who doesn't understand the varied meanings, it can cause quite the mess when "reading" various AFIs, laws, DOD instructions, etc. In the context of what we're discussing. Satisfactory service in pursuit of qualifying for a reserve retirement involves 365 days and 50 points earned. Once you get 20 good years, the concept of satisfactory service to that end is finished. Unfortunately, due to a fundamental mis-interpretation of the statutes, ARPC has gone on to say that your continuing service must be in a "participating status" in order to get TIG and you must continue to accrue satisfactory years--thus specifically excluding time in the IRR (even though the officer is still on the RASL).

10 USC 1370A is one source. One is definitely demoted when transferred to the grey area if he can’t hold his rank. This new rank then becomes a basis for actual high-36 calculations which are performed at age 60 or the RRPA. How could it be otherwise? Additional proof of this is what 4Fans detailed above with his original transfer order in which ARPC couldn’t seem to figure out something as basic as a DOR!

DFAS and ARPC are incredibly confused…. Technically they are correct in part, but due to inflation of the pay charts over a typical 16-yr or so stay in the grey-area, they are most likely (for the vast majority of typical part-timers) incorrect on this point. One can demonstrate using past pay charts to show their hypothetical actual high-36. Where they are most definitely incorrect is the rank in the grey area. One holds their rank by achieving required TIG while in a participating status. If not, then you get bucked down for the entirety of the grey area.

4Fans: That'd be a "why" question, but I'll take a stab. Based on what I've observed over 10 years as a reserve/guard, it is now clear to me that RegAF 1. does not "like" the part-time ARC and would rather it not be a thing, 2. Has never gotten on board with the idea that ARC members rate a retirement (or anything, really). As a result nothing has ever fundamentally changed and nothing will change, I predict. Witness Congress over the years repeatedly tell DOD to fix the ARC's systemic problems, and what happens? Study after study, making Rand rich, but no hint of systemic change ever happens, just more band-aids. Examples: 1. Early in the GWOT RegAF complained that it was "hard" to access reserves for their purposes. DOD came up with yet another duty status called ADOS (we're now up to 30 duty statuses, BTW). RegAF worried that Reserves would then easily stay on ADOS their whole career and then get a Regular retirement. The 1095 rule was born--1095 was supposed to be tied to a position, but having no mechanism for tracking this, they tied it to the person, the added benefit being that they could deny a regular retirement to individuals (for the most part). Navy & Army are much more aggressive than AF when it comes to a concerted effort to deny. 2. AFRES has been talking for YEARS about reforming basic functions such as UTAPS and AROWS, yet all they have are excuses as to why they cannot. 3. DOD whined about medical readiness in the reserve. Congress responded with making Tricare and Tricare Dental available to reservists. DOD opposed this. 4. AFRES's record-keeping system for reserve points was basically non-existent. The effect was that reservists would apply for retirement and then have to prove their service. If unable, AFRES would deny the retirement. Congress responded with a band-aid fix of mandating PCARS and issuance of the 20-yr letter which could not be revoked. AFRES opposed this idea and watered it down to include an out for themselves: "the number of years of creditable service and retirement points upon which retired pay is computed may be adjusted to correct any error." Ergo, the onus is ultimately still on the reservist, potentially, to prove his service. 5. When I first entered the SELRES I asked many benefit questions to the finance/personnelists both at my group and ARPC. I received virtually no information and the information I did receive was littered with errors/outright wrong. I concluded that these people didn't know and didn't care because they were full-timers (whether ART or AGR or attempting a Regular retirement) and it didn't affect them. It became quite obvious to me that I would need to find answers on my own starting with title 10 and go from there because the AFIs themselves are littered with errors. 6. BLAB: RegAF runs the show, does not care about the ARC, and any attempts at reform point to the desire of RegAF and ARC Full-timers to just do away with the entire concept of a part-time force because it's pesky to them. This explains the constant drum beat of "we're an operational reserve." It also explains the constant push to get rid of IRR participation (achieved by AFRES except for ALO and CAP-RAP--but they're working on it), points for correspondence courses (achieved by the Army), and the absolute disaster that the IMA program is currently devolving into, sped along by the so-called "IMA Strategic Review Team." Basically the AF wants people on active duty or not on active duty, but can't seem to get there because of their desire to deny benefits in the name of saving money.

4Fans: That’s good. The other 2 most important documents will be your 20-yr letter and your PCARS printout. Heard about an old boy went to Army HRC to get his retired pay started. HRC says they have no record of him at all. He had his 20 yr letter, tho, so HRC knew they had to pay him something. But with no record of how many points he had earned, they gave him 50 pts per yr for 20 yrs. That’s brutal. My 20 yr letter has my points as of my 20th yr printed on it, so may not be a factor for you, but I’d get PCARS printout anyway, especially with their screwing around with all the software.

Hindsight2020: Army’s press release is incorrect, tho. 10 USC 1370A does say the same as 1370, meaning reserve and regular are both 3 yrs TIG now.

I hope your transfer date is end of May. ARPC has been telling people incorrectly they can “retire on a partial year.” This is a gross misunderstanding of the partial year concept. A good year is 50 pts AND 365/366 days in a participating status. If you already had 20 good years yeah sure you can retire anytime you want. But if you’re in your 20th year it has to be at least 20 whole years. Partial years come into play if one has a break in service. In that case 2 partial years (presumably 1 on the front end and 1 on the back end) can combine to make 1 good year. Other than that situation, partial years past 20 good yrs only give you pro-rata membership points, but don’t have any further meaning.

Common misconception. You’ll be O-4 in Retired Reserve. Your high-36 will be calculated from the O-4 level for the 36 months pay charts preceding age 60 or your reduced retired pay age. This will be at the highest longevity (so topping out the O-4 payscale. This a key difference between regular and reserve retirement systems and why it is highly advisable for reservists to get TIG to hold their rank.

Did he know prior? Was he regular AF?

As far as I can see, this will normally only impact reserve officers that are prior-enlisted. If the reserve officer can’t hold the rank at retirement, he gets kicked down to O-3 pay chart. MSD for O-4 is 20, at least it can be, unless continued. But now that I think about it that MSD is only for twice passed over. So the effect would be that a prior enlisted O-4 may have to go beyond 20 to hold O-4.

Quietly inserted into 10 USC 1370 (regular) and 1370a (reserve): TIG requirement for Maj is now 3 years for it to be held. It was 6 months, previously.

Don’t feed the troll…

I did a little research and found the following over the course of my career. Of note, each time it changed per CSAF or SECAF, there it was always heralded as “That’s a great idea!” as if it were something that had never been tried. ?-2004 visible 2005-2008 masked 2008-2014 visible 2015-2022 masked 2023-? Visible

DMartin17: I've observed over the years that there is a certain type of person that will scrutinize your motivations for wanting to be in the AF. In their view, ideological purity is very important ("Attitude is EVERYTHING!"). These types are everywhere in the AF, probably on your interview board, so regardless of your opinions you will need to "deal" with these types. I agree with you (if my read on you is correct) that a candidate's stated motivations shouldn't count for a whole lot. After all, who can really know what's inside someone's head? And shouldn't it be enough that we have people who are willing to serve? To me the whole idea of psychoanalyzing a particular candidate reeks of control-freak mentality. So to sum up: that's the landscape and play the game as well as you can. To answer your question: "Am I in the right headspace if I'm reluctant of the Needs of the Air Force?" No, you're fine. But that's my opinion and others (probably on your interview board) might have another opinion so you should be sensitive to that viewpoint.

Not the point. I was getting my shadow box ready for retirement and I wanted my rack to be correct. I thought maybe the training ribbon criteria had changed. After asking the question here, I found out that around 2011 it changed for USAFA cadets to be given at the end of basic training and not again at commissioning.

Obviously you don’t, so why are you posting? Go elsewhere, seriously.

Not very nice there, SurelySerious. I am merely curious. I can see you’re not, so move along.

Watched the USAFA-USNA game the other day and saw all the AF cadets wearing the AF Training Ribbon. Apparently they are awarded it at the end of basic cadet training now. Back in my day we were awarded it at graduation/commissioning. When did this change? Do they now get an OLC at commissioning?

This is a horrible good idea fairy. It’s just an extension of the sentiment that we’re all equal and that pilots can and should do other people’s jobs and vice versa. I don’t hold with it. Next up: we have a lack of booms, so copilots will now get out of their seat and operate the boom.

TBTF is not a good way IMO to look at a potential employer. Under a bankruptcy re-org, union contracts will be forced to reset, so yes, you’ll still be employed, but it will be for a paycut.

Of course it's company dependent. I thought that went without saying, but maybe not. The commercial flying world is not a monolith. I can only speak from my perspective at this moment in time. My perspective is as a UPS Airlines pilot with 5 years on property and an AFRES liaison to CAP. But for real, here's what I observe: it wouldn't matter if I said you get a half milly and work 5 days/mo. Those who are "on the fence", "not quite sure" would still stay in RegAF. The devil is always in the details, meaning, you gotta do the math! There is no shortcut to doing the math! Glossing over the "details" or thinking that all airlines are more/less the same: No, not at all.

I started realizing a lot of time off with the confluence of a number of factors: 1. Switching my ARC job from Cat A to Cat E. With Cat A I was working 6 days/mo. With Cat E it's more like <1 day/mo on a 12 mo avg. 2. Receiving vacation from my airline. The first year of employment you won't have vacation bc you are earning it. Depending on when you join the company, your 2nd yr will have some vacation, but not a full bag. So your 3rd year you will have a full bag of vacation, whatever that may be. 3. Getting enough seniority to bid a good schedule (not reserve, since the company can extend me by a day or two, depending, once per month). The seniority required is top 75 to 80% of the list, which coincided, approx, with beginning of my 3rd year.

Reserve Sanctuary, 10 USC 12646 link for section of law that describes what I previously posted.

:For apples-apples comparison: Airline+AFRES guy here: My avg days off/mo was ~17, or 209 total days off in the past 12 months. And that's actual days off, meaning at home, no duty, not commuting (I live in base). That number will improve when I retire from AFRES pretty soon here. Compare that to when I was RegAF. The avg days off baseline was ~12 days/mo (includes 30 days' leave, weekends, holidays, and family days), 153 days off total. Then throw in weekend TDYs and deployments and that number goes down considerably.

This Mini worship is reminiscent of Welsh worship. Not directed at anyone in particular.