hockeydork

The Ukrainian people aren't a bargaining chip between the west and Russia tho man. They are people who want a say in their future.

Strategically you are right and I agree, emotionally you are not. I think we care a lot more than putin thought we would, hence why I am OK with absorbing significant financial pain to enact even great pain on his people.

I think Russian oil should 100 percent be sanctioned.

Goingkinetic, you'll win but not for free. Well be the last ones standing but not until after the bodies are stacked sky high to the ceiling. I applaud your willingness to want to go kick the shit out of the people doing this and make them stop, but this is a haste makes waste situation. Innocent people are going to die, Vlad is the one who decided that. It is going to happen. There is no going back. We need to be patient, we need to play to our strength as a free society, which is our ability to inovate and crush the Russian government so bad economically, that it's own people goes after them.

Not once have I war mongered. I made it abundantly clear that the best way to handle this is to crush Russia economically while helping the Ukrainians defend themselevs, which for F*cks sake man they have a right too. Just like you are probably pro gun so you can defend your own home. Find me a post where someone said we should go sink the Black Sea fleet. The US needs to play the long game here. Let the Russians dig their own grave. They are a floundering super power because of their crappy, selfish leadership. These are the people who don't care about killing their own people, it's in the process of coming back to haunt them.

Yes your are exactly right. And because we are a free society, more people are allowed to reach their maximum potential, rather than exist in a police state where government distorts reality. And because of that, we have the patriotism, the smarts, the money and the resolve to conduct economic warfare with the Russians for slaughtering a bunch of Ukrainians who did nothing to deserve the fate they are getting.

You have zero ability to read people. Putin is a shark, and a damn good one.

So whats your plan to fix all of this, just curious. Make it clear that any country with nukes can go invade and take what they want? In that case let's go get Cuba, it's too close to our borders. We feel threatened.

I'm sorry but anybody who thinks this was about NATO getting close to his boder needs to have their heads checked. We could have disolved NATO 10 years ago, he'd still have invaded. Go watch Star Wars, it will tell you everything you need to know. This is about power. My neighbour is from Russia and she said that Putin's Russia will not be happy till the world recognizes their greatness and the empire is restored. They are embarrassed that they don't have their empire anymore, they have never gotten over it. In summary: * Putin is a mega narcissist, he wants to restore Russia into a super power and empire. Anybody who believes a word that comes out of his mouth that is to the contrary, get your head checked. Just look how competitive he is. He cannot stand that the USA is where it is compared to the shell of the USSR he presides over. *He was going to invade, NATO or not. He is not dumb, he is a patient and calculating man. We could have guaranteed no NATO. Hed still be trying to reclaim Ukraine. Fact. *If he wasn't limited by his own lifespan, he'd 100 percent try and march all the way through Europe, maybe not at once, but little bites at a time. What his successor will do is anybody's guess. * He guessed right on the west not wanting to engage directly with him him. He guessed wrong on our willingness to reunite and isolate him and bleed his economy for all the Ukrainian's hes killed, even if it hurts ourselves in the process. He was banking on the world not caring about dead Ukranians. He's actually affirmed that NATO needs to exist, and the Europe needs to rearm itself, which Trump did have right IIRC. *He, like most emperors before him, gives zero shit about his own people. Russia is like home ownership. He wants the grandest home, the bigger the better. But it's HIS Russian empire. Calling him a president is about as accurate as saying Russia has freedom of the press. He is a Czar in presidential clothing, what he wants goes. If Ukraine is restored to mother Russia, the same song and dance will come out in 10 years about say Poland. It's too close to his border, he'll slowly use information warfare to attempt to internally fracture Poland so that he can get it.

Actually all he's really done is ensure the west arms itself to the teeth and does its best to crash the Russian economy. He is actually going to help the West, but kill a bunch of innocent people in the process. Just like a true dictator, like every, single one that has come before him, blinded by his own arrogance.

It sets a dangerous precedent for sure. Got nukes? Do whatever you want, nobody can touch you. Crushing the Russians economically needs to be priority number 1 until their people wake the up, however long it takes.

I haven't slept right ever since it started. Literally watching human civilization go in reverse. Depressing as all hell.

I think it captures the crisis well. The willingness of the Russians to destroy a piece of Soviet and Russian achievement/heritage that is irreplaceable, for what? Perfectly captures the willingness to destroy their next door neighbors and themselves over foolish hollow goals, again for what? She came to KSWF some time ago, I didn't make it over to see her, really regret it.

Footage of the 225 burning from the link somebody else gave.

i was referring to this statement he made: "non-workable, affordable, or truly capable, renewable fuel sources". As if people are just out digging holes in the ground developing renewables. I agree there is a magic to balancing short term need with long term goals, but if you think in 10 years time there will be less turbines in the ocean than now, and there will be less electric cars than there are now, please make sure somebody else is investing your money for you. If I am wrong, come quote me and I owe you a bottle of something. Back to Ukraine.....Unfortunately I think the fact that they have Nuclear plants in a war zone is going to hurt nuclear development for the world, even tho the chance of what is happening there happening here is slim. People are just so scared of it, even tho I work a mile from a reactor every day.

We have fossil fuels that clearly need to be not squandered, for situations EXACTLY like this, so we can use it as leverage during times of crises instead of sending an 18 year old to get shredded on the Russian border. And I'll have to tell my buddies who took jobs at GE making turbines that they're all so stupid and are just wasting their time, just a bunch of morons doing wicked CFD and stuff. And man, having the Indian point reactor (example) operating right now so we could shift more of our natural gas to Europe would be a real shame. I'm really glad THATS closed. Take your political hat off, this isn't about politics. There is a fixed amount fossil energy underground in the US, yes I agree with you now is the time to leverage it to bail Europe out, but there less and less every day, it is not the future.

I was questioning the effectiveness of that decision. The Russians are going to win that war of attrition no matter what. Better to spend the money on MANPADS, even if it takes 3 shots to hit something.

100 percent, any country that doesn't wanna be Putin or Xis bitch had better hit the weight room. You also need to understand that just because the US is not intervening with bodies, doesn't mean that we are not in the process of now crushing Russia long term. Anybody who previously was anti-renewable domestic energy, sure as shit is probably scratching their head and reevaluating their side of that debate. Expect an acceleration off of fossil fuels, expect nobody to want to get involved with Russia, expect the Russian state to become an old rabid dog: you don't want to get near it, but its to slow and weak to hurt you. Than once these cold war soviet relics die out, maybe they'll undergo a revolution. I've always wanted to visit Moscow, maybe towards the end of my life things will have changed.

The difference is Ukraine is where the battle is now, it is currently a battlefield, Madrid and Chicago are not. If he nukes Madrid, all the birds will start flying man. We'll all be dead.

Depends if he starts losing. He'll def be willing to carpet bomb it to save his ego. If he starts that, expect longer range SAMs to start rolling into Ukraine, it won't only by Russian helo pilots dodging stingers at that point. I have a feeling getting NASAMs or some other longer range system to the Ukrainians is already in the works behind the scenes.

I think you misread my post. I meant if he preemptively nuked say NYC because he was in tantrum mode over losing in Ukraine/sanctions/the West's help. If he uses a tactical nuke inside Ukraine, my policy would be a clear eye for an eye. You use one in Ukraine, expect one to be used against you in Ukraine. He would be breaking such a precedent that at that point, I think it would be justified to assassinate him, if he wasn't offed internally first. Let us hope Denzel is holding the button (couldn't refuse the Crimson Tide reference..).

If he uses nukes I would say the gloves are off, wouldn't you?

He is balancing the problem of not turning an arm wrestling match with Russia into a fight to the death between two nuclear powers. Nobody thinks Ukraine is expendable, but it needs to be in the history books that Ukraine fought to not be a part of Russia. Not that the Americans fought for Ukraine to not be a part of Russia. It is a distinct difference that matters, even tho it shouldn't. If America enters the fight, Putin will enter an entire new mode of aggression and destruction. If you think he cannot stand to be pushed back from Ukraine by Ukrainians, well he most definitely will not stand for the US being the ones to beat him back out of Ukraine.

I disagree on this idea that he is acting in the best interests of Russia. This is a dude who went from zero to billionaire, for doing what exactly? Nothing.This is critical when deciding what to do with Ukraine. There is a large difference between a man who is out for himself and a man who is out for his people. Putin is not out for the Russian people. Ukraine posed zero threat to the Russian people. ing zero. This isn't Russia acting in Russia's interests, because the Russian people can't act in their own interests because they've been oppressed for god knows how long being force fed state run TV. Obama didn't isolate Russia, the Russian autocracy isolated Russia to preserve its own chokehold over the people. This is in the dictator playbook. You say zero interest to save Ukraine. I disagree. Ukraine is a hunk of land far far away, but perceptions matter in this world. Now we have a civilized country fighting for its freedom. We spent so much effort trying to build Iraq and Afghanistan from scratch, and the idea that we shouldn't care about a near freedom getting toppled is no bueno. We care. We're just questioning our methods do to previous performance and the players involved, and we are tip toeing, which is good, rather than reaching for the sledge hammer instantly. I do NOT think we should set up a no fly zone due to the risk of WW3, but if the Ukrainian's want anti-air missiles, coming right up. In this situation, it matters not only that the Russians are beat, but WHO beats them. They NEED to be beaten by the UKRANIANS for this to work, so that this cannot be spun as "American f*cked around in Russia's interests". No, Russia f*cked around in Ukraine's interests, and paid dearly for it. People aren't clamoring for war, they are clamoring to stand up to bullies. Yes, it's real scary to think that an old dude (i.e. life almost over, willing to take more risks because he only gives a shit about himself) has a nuke button. But the Ukrainian people have the right to fight for their freedom. And we had better encourage it just as we have been doing. You cannot pick and chose when to be on the side of a free people just because of your strategic interests. The people have a right to govern themselves, always. Death on our feet over life on our knees, always. If Putin nukes something over Ukraine well than he had already lost his mind and so be it, it was a matter of time anyways than. Moscow will get wiped off the face of the earth, people will die, and the world will cycle on.

Putin won't use nukes if his brain is still on. If it's not, you can bet your ass the west will engage in WW3 the second a tactical nuke goes off. There is a lot of peaceful people....who won't be so peaceful once that bomb goes off. My parents and GF have been interesting to watch: non violent people who thought that war was something crazy people go chose, and now understand that sometimes it chooses you. I have zero ties to Ukraine. I've never rooted so hard for something in my life. And I watched the Rangers lose the 2014 Stanley cup (so I'll happily trade LA =p ). ...joking.