Negatory

Absolutely, include all of the training. There is definitely a perception now that the desire to push dudes through AETC to units could be a contributing factor in these incidents. Heartbreaking 🥃

A toast 🥃

Trying to character assassinate an anonymous person on the internet when you have no idea what they do seems risky, but I’ll allow it. My point is that you can’t just say “deranged ... Marxism” or “socialism” and have everyone clap. If you want to engage on effects of specific policies, I’d be happy to talk. For example, I’m not fond of socialism as a whole system of governance. But I feel like if I told you that I believe that top bracket marginal tax rates should be doubled from 37% because I think that the system in its current incarnation isn’t working as intended, you would call me a socialist. Even though we had 70-91% tax rates from 1950-1980, one of the greatest economic growth periods in US history. The word is meaningless in discourse because it’s thrown around at everything that is even remotely progressive.

@Erthwerm Don’t feel like you can’t have different opinions, and you don’t have to justify your cred before posting. On the Internet, we’re all the same and I personally wish more discourse about things like this happened here and in real life. People nowadays are too damn polarizing trying to win arguments just throwing out words like “tyranny” and “Marxism.”

Baseops, like most military social circles, is an echo chamber of people who have never had their views confronted. You ever sit back and just let the irony that you all live and work in a socialist paradise wash over you? Once you're in, your job is secure (you face no chance of an immediate layoff, and the VAST majority of people can make it to 20-40 years if they want to), your healthcare is paid for, you get an affordable housing allowance based on your status in the system (oh and it changes based on where you are in America), you have a perception that budget doesn't matter (who cares how much that FHP or those TVs costs, just fly it and buy it so we get more money next year), you get basically guaranteed promotions that are based more on timing than on merit, you're handed a ridiculous retirement package that requires no self-involvement or contributions, the worst workers are paid the same as the best, you get paid when a pandemic causes you not to work at all for weeks, you get regular wage increases that keep up with or exceed inflation, you have 30 days of paid leave a year. The military organization keeps hundreds of thousands of people on payroll (in a money bleeding way) just in case they need them, paying them way more than the value we get out of them (the vast majority of the military is a self-licking ice cream cone when we aren't at real war). The military system is the antithesis to self-reliance, meritocracy, accountability, ROI, or profitability. But it sure is nice to be in it right now when the system out there isn't taking care of people.

Was that video a bait? Did you actually watch it?

Yeah, I personally know multiple fighter pilots who have turned with other nations’ aircraft in the last decade. Way more than I ever expected. Thats what happens when the ROE is basically “you stay on this side of the river/point/airfield, they will stay over there. Except sometimes they won’t. But don’t let them not. But don’t do anything about it if they do. Got it??”

F&@$ that. That is all.

No, they really are being organized by one small group. I get that they may capture the beliefs of a portion of America, but it doesn’t change the fact that this didn’t start organically.

I don’t disagree with you but forced quarantine of health individuals has never been constitutionally debated as far as I know. That’s the weird thing about a disease that spreads asymptomatically.

I hate this convo. There is seemingly no move to win. And there isn't even a move to not play. At least we will always have our cush gubment jerbs... Right?

Also relatively easy fix, mask everything but the most recent 3-4 years or so.

Yeah I can sort of see the argument. But in my mind it’s a zero sum solution - money all comes from the same proverbial pot in the end. Would 10k extra for guard/reservists be a better investment for America/the big AF than 10k for active duty pilots? What does the AF need more? With all the new perceived benefits that already exist from being in the guard/reserves, I feel like this would just be more of an incentive to leave active duty. I know for me personally this would only make me want to join the guard more. Unpopular opinion maybe, but we already know that AD can’t compete with stability or homesteading that exists with the guard. If AD offered better pay, maybe that would entice people to stay. Make AD bonuses 45-50k. Currently, the only thing AD beats the guard on is 2BPZ promotions if you are one of the chosen ones. I say this as someone who is definitely joining the guard for family reasons, regardless of money.

Real question. Why should a part timer get the same bonus as someone on AD? Or is this just arguing for rate (pay/day) to be the same?

I recognize your points, but this rhetoric is just the same thing. Only highlighting positive things while whitewashing anything that could be argued to be divisive, illegal, stupid, or ignorant only contributes to this partisanship. I saw a stat that like 85% of Democrats support impeachment and 87% of republicans don’t. The Russians disinformation campaign via Facebook and news outlets to throw us against one another seems to be going swimmingly.

Chuck you have a source on that? Because I haven’t seen or noticed any institutional desire to do that whatsoever. What I’ve seen from the O-7/O-8 level is that they think the system works, as it got them promoted. Personally, I think all of this is kind of pointless until they fix the root cause of talent management woes: forced stratification on OPRs is stupid and a bad way to retain folks in a high talent organization. Yet the Air Force has a hardon for this indicator. And I haven’t heard anyone talk about how to fix that.

Checks in the mail, bro. I’ll bet you a drink that the number one indicator of promotion is still a DP on the PRF, regardless of OPRs. And the Air Force will never get rid of BPZ, it’s the number one indicator of future O-7 potential in this organization.

There was a supplemental reg put out that said no rank on shoulders, just special 2 line name tags. I’ll have to search for it.

I already know this is gonna rub some people the wrong way, but what the heck? Well I think you kinda have to list the campaign rhetoric and talk about it. Wealth inequality is a real thing that has gotten exponentially worse in the last 30 years. Think the last stat I saw was the top 50% lost about $1T, while the top 1% gained $30T. It’s not useful to just call it “socialism” and not discuss any of the merits (even if there are only some). I’m not voting for Bernie, but I can intellectually wrap my mind around some of the bases of his ideas. Many major companies including Amazon paid no taxes in a year we had a good economy. WTF over? Capitalism as it stands, with no other policies, is currently executing one of the biggest transfers of wealth on its own - from workers to the ruling class. What policies will help curb that? Are there any policies that will help protect the rest of Americans that weren’t born into that world? And I’m not talking about the slightly above average airline pilot pulling in close to $500k a year. That’s not the problem - the level of wealth that is the problem I guarantee is incomprehensible to anyone on this forum.

Fair enough I see your point.

Do you not like people showing emotion? Maybe his views don’t mesh with everyone’s but I respect that he actually shows how he feels in regards to some comments, as opposed to just being politically correct and staying quiet.

I’d love to hear what these defensive capes are and how truly effective and useful they are. My bet is not much. Seems to me that mobility assets never have significantly more capes than turning to put the threat at their six and accelerating to whatever max Mach is. Honestly against any China/Russia scenario I don’t see how you can make a tanker any more survivable against PL-12/AA-12/SA-20+ without going and entirely redesigning it to make it a stealth asset. IMHO, you’d need a paradigm shift like the MQ-25 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray If we’re giving up the ability to carry over twice the gas for diminishing returns in defensive suites, I struggle to see the value.

Holy shit, what a foul. Dudes thinking they will be pilots for 2 years and now won’t get to because we can’t just ramp up/down when we make a decision. Instead, it seems like we always elect to overshoot/undershoot dramatically and rebound from the new mean. Short sighted manning decisions are a large part of what got us to our current rated crisis. Things like this will totally be great for retention of those year groups. Maybe bonus take rates will finally turn around in 2032?

Really the 11B numbers are the only weird ones. Everyone else that is immediately eligible for the airlines has a take rate in the 30s or 40s. And big AF will continue saying the money doesn’t matter and they won’t budge because “it isn’t fair” to pay people that can make more money a compensatory amount. Give me a break. You don’t see the family medicine physician complaining that his Air Force bonus is less than the heart surgeon’s. Make it competitive based on earning potential or lose out.

Yeah it was takes/eligibles, but the stats I saw were only for 11 series (11B/11U/etc). I don’t have the numbers handy, but 12 and 18 series were relatively high - ~60-75% - and not as applicable to the rated crisis imo. Although I bet their corner of the AF has the exact same problems 11X folks face, those folks do not have the same economic factors - read almost a guaranteed airline job/alternate employment - that allow them to easily transition out of the AF. Also they are much younger when they make that bonus decision because their commitment only takes them to 6-8 years, which I think means they are less jaded (have never competed for school or seen just how bleak AF opportunities can look past major).