HuggyU2

It's the familiar climate.

Any update on the injured pilot?

Yes. In the US, they do take into account outside areas. A number of shows have been reduced in size, or eliminated, due to urban encroachment over the years. The Thunderbirds could not perform at Oshkosh for years because of it. They finally performed there last year, but I do not know what was changed to pull it off. To be overly simplified, for a show using high speed jets, the showline (Category I Line) will be 1500' and parallel to the spectator area. The opposite side of the showline also has to be 1500' from any people, and is called the Secondary Spectator Area. You will often see houses, and structures inside of it... but those shows will go and pay the residents and businesses to vacate the area during the show.

Yes, about 8-10k' in a T-38. Hunter should be much less, depending on which motor this one had. "Spectator". I should have used "non-participant"... although during my 3+ years in the UK, I would see them stop on the motorway and simply watch a show from there. And based on the number of people standing on the motorway in some of the photos, I'd wager some casualties were "spectators". I'd like to see what the aerobatic box's layout was, in relation to the highway where he impacted. Based on the reaction to this in the UK, I'm sure we will see it soon.

There's nothing subtle about the differences. Air racing is not covered by the same rules as airshow organizers and performers. They are completely different. And as for Ramstein, it operated under Euro-rules, which at the time allowed the performers to direct energy toward the crowd... which is not allowed in the US. Had it been an airshow in the US, the Frecce Tricolori would not have been allowed to fly that maneuver.

It's a Hawker Hunter. Civilian. I don't know the Brit rules on an airshow box. Either something was grossly ignored... or grossly not regulated. But this is going to be a game-changer for how they conduct airshows. Unfortunately, the Brits LOVE their airshows, and I'm curious how this will change that. Had this happened in the USA, his mistake would not have resulted in spectator fatalities... based on the news and spectators/friends reports. US Airshows are occasionally scoffed for their regulations... but there has not been a spectator fatality at a US airshow since 1954.

Why do you want a single-engine ATP?

Y'

I have over 50 messages saved, and with the new forum, it says I have to drop 50 or less to begin pm'ing again. Can you point me toward how I delete messages to get below 50? I do not see a DELETE function like on other sites.

I cannot download this file now in the new forum. I'm trying with an iPad. Any ideas?

Funny! Yeah, that was last year... summertime? Hard to remember exactly. I met the host when I did a static at the 2014 DM Airshow, and he really wanted me on the show right away. I had to put it off, but we finally got it done. Thanks, matmacwc.

Well, that'll just about cover the flybys.

Just great. Another FAIP.

Gents, Thanks for the candid comments and perspective. Getting the views of military pilots that also own an aircraft is very helpful to my understanding of the problem. There is a ton I don't know about ADS-B, and am trying to get up to speed quickly. Much appreciated.

Invest that $500 in ADS-B. Although many are waiting for hardware costs to come down (they are already low), the avionics shops are soon going to have more work than they can schedule for just ADS-B installations. And at that point, the labor cost is going to skyrocket due to supply and demand as the calendar approaches 1 Jan 2020. I'm sure you will see people scheduling installations 1+ years out very soon. It will also have the effect of preventing other avionics work from getting done: they'll be too busy doing ADS-B installs. I was in an industry briefing recently where they showed the number of work days left, the number of qualified avionics shops, and the number of GA aircraft that will need ADS-B installs. If their data is accurate, it is starting to get ugly now. The other thing they are seeing is a surprisingly higher-than-expected number of owners are planning to get ADS-B Out only, but once they see what the full system capes are, they are laying out the money for a full system.

Brabus, I'm guessing you are somewhat unfamiliar with NextGen. It isn't just for civilian Joe. Or civilian Huggy. And I get the fact that you're an ACC-trained killer and "anything else is rubbish". But the reality is that the USAF operates in American airspace as well as combat zones. And the FAA regulates American airspace. And whether you or COMACC likes it or not, it is going to be a fight for the next 53+ months if the AF continues to push back on this. The prioritization of "what keeps you alive in combat" has never been even close to perfect. That's why, instead of spending more time in the vault, you spend that time doing CBT's, SARC briefs, PT tests that measure nothing meaningful, and the myriad of other queep that is driving mission-oriented people from many facets of the military. But I digress. I certainly don't know how this ADS-B issue will play out. But based on the FAA's stance coupled with the fallout from the F-16 mid-air, I personally wouldn't bet it would be "a long time" before you see it.

Based on the preliminary information, it might very well have prevented the F-16 mid-air.

That's because he was a FAIP.

I understand your point that items like ADS-B do not improve your combat capes. But DoD aircraft do not operate in a vacuum. Since all of us that fly have to live in the same playground to play safely, the AF cannot put its head in the sand and ignore it: the ADS-B mandate happens in 53 months. What exactly is their plan? Asking for waivers indefinitely is not a plan. Mike Huerta has already said "not a chance". And with the expected reaction in aviation circles once the F-16 mid-air investigation is released, the AF will have a very difficult time getting any traction or support with congress in delaying it. Money is very tight... got it. But that excuse simply will not fly, no pun intended. We should probably drag this conversation over to the ADS-B thread.

What about any plans to upgrade Vipers to ADS-B? Why are the Spang pilots not using Mode S consistently and properly? Which, with the limitations of radar, would make ADS-B a step up in safe operations. When I was flying into Oshkosh last week, they had everyone squawk standby within 30 nm. ADS-B will be a welcome change in that environment.

It was great to see the BUFF on the West Ramp. They had a never ending stream of folks visiting. Since the jet they brought was over 50 years old, I hope they were included in the Vintage AND the Warbird judging.

The F-16 mid-air has generated a lot of discussion on ADS-B in the civilian world. Not that there wasn't a lot already. My question: What is the DoD going to do (if anything) with respect to installing ADS-B on military aircraft? If they are going to do it, what's the timeline? Which aircraft? I think I probably know the answer, but it's pure speculation on my part, and I figure there are at least a few knowledgable folks here that are smart on the issue. With that, I'll shut up and avoid showing ignorance. Thanks. Discuss...

Looking for contact info for anyone flying in a T-38 for static during the week.

Why insult CNN?

Elaborate. Are you flying there in GA aircraft? Rented by which field? OSH? ATW? Need more info. Feel free to pm me.