Clark Griswold

Top 5 Cancelled Fighter Plane Programs Had not heard of the Atlas Carver and surprised the F-20 didn't make the list.

Long article but interesting (only perused some sections) - enjoy. Trends in Air to Air Combat Implications for Air Superiority John Stillion

Figures. This clip has probably been posted in another thread but probably a good analogy to what happened.

Sounds like the "Bigger-Higher-Farther-Faster" mentality Boyd had to contend with. They just can't imagine that the new platform doesn't have to be XXX times greater than old one for insert whatever metric(s) you want here. There is still a requirement for a CAS / Attack focused platform that can fly slow, turn tight and hang around while the TIC develops. It just needs to be a new aircraft with a sustainable MX base, improvements where needed to a realistic degree and reasonably affordable survivability built in. Serious question and don't mean to sound too out of my lane but instead of an LO platform why not design the A-X with as much signature reduction as you can but focus on a robust ECM suite integrated into the aircraft from the beginning?

Edsel

Probably so - that was just a guy's weekend (or several) project but still nice. The AE 2100D (J model 130 & 27) puts out (giggity) 4700+ ESHP so that could work and you could route the exhaust like on the A2D Skyshark But that's getting away from the intention of the original LAAR proposal. It needs to be something around 15 mil or less a copy and ideally cost less than 1K per hour to fly, those numbers were not stated in the original RFP but watching the whole thing unfold that appears what they wanted and now have in the A-29 program being run at Moody. I'm still a big believer in the Scorpion Jet and particularly that for the ANG, LAAR and would be good for DOMOPS / DSCA but without the ANG having its own procurement authority and the USAF not interested, probably a 0.1% chance. Got that covered.

Like it - just a plastic model but what an updated Skyraider might look like...

Yep - on the same idea, one reason (not the only) but one reason the F-20 Tigershark never got a launch customer was that we weren't buying it, the idea was if it isn't good enough for you then why is it good enough for me? Not confidence inspiring for an ally to commit to for a sustainable MDS. Now one was a multi-role fighter and we're talking about relatively inexpensive light attack aircraft but the idea is analogous. It's probably not too far off the mark that some of these partner countries would be more willing to commit their scant defense resources towards something that we fly, we will train them in and that we sustain the viability of by our ownership of said aircraft. Got to see the Scorpion Jet at a WEPTAC and they built that jet mainly for the international market (from the company reps), if the ANG and AFR which have 9 squadrons of A-10's were allowed to convert to say 5 of them to Scorpions that would give others (think Kenya, Columbia, Philippines, Brazil, etc...) the confidence to make their own purchases and seed the market. This is the strategic thinking that AF seems incapable of now, just reacts from one procurement fiasco to the next and is always making excuses and telling Congress that come next FY everything will be fixed. Edit: Added Scorpion Jet propaganda

Sorry to hear that, it always is amazing to see the lack of imagination or out of the container thinking the AF at certain echelons and above in the AF - if it's not 150K+ GW or supersonic the AF is not really interested and if the mission is primarily in service to another branch of the military, forget it. But I'm not cynical, not one bit...

yep - it would / would have been great but what should have been a straightforward Urgent Operation Need turned into a food fight and another fumble... So let's see 100 LAARs at 15 mil a copy comes to 1.5 billion and then x 4 for life cycle cost (WAG) comes to 6 billion then for about 20 years of flying service (conservative service life). Assume you keep 50 deployed and fly 200 hours a day, will just double a WAG of a per flight hour cost of $1000 and say it costs $2000 when deployed figuring the logistics footprint. That's $400,000 per day and that's a lot of ISR, Overwatch, CAS, Patrol, etc... Now to do that same 200 hours with 4th Generation fighter or A-10 at an average of $30,000 per flight hour in theatre and that's 6 million a day. That's not even trying to figure in the cost to AR some of those missions and cost of in / out of theatre movements. So in one year, to fly the 4th Gen it was about 2.2 billion and to fly the LAARs it was 146 million, difference of about 2.05 billion, you just paid for the LAAR acquisition in one year and every year after that's just bonus. Now I know that is just a linear extrapolation and the savings would take several FYs to realize as the spin up costs at first would be steep but had the AF had the foresight or the DoD to just admit around March of 04 that we were in protracted COIN / Occupation-Pacification operations in two widely separated and expensive (logistically) theaters to operate in and that we need to field appropriately scaled and sustainable systems to fight long wars, we would have the money for nice things like T-X, LRSB, etc... Oh well, rant complete and we've moved on since then but still just another missed opportunity...

The Amazing OV-10 Bronco Was Never Allowed To Meet Its Full Potential Good article on what could have been with a video on the YOV-10D NOGS

General Mattis for president

Yes I would also prefer to go back to UPT vs SUPT but that is another thread. The advanced trainer phase is there to raise daily standards, fly a more complex / faster aircraft and execute / manage more complicated training missions. Is flying a simulated tanker, air drop or form ride in a T-1 as demanding as the real thing nah but it is to develop those personal traits, habits and attitudes that will build a responsible aircraft commander who can manage and be part of a crew or formation, keep the mission in mind while keeping the crew focused, and fly the aircraft Not trying to be preachy but it would be a big foul on the heavy community to turn loose on them guys going to the FP position who only flew one type of aircraft and did not have that next phase to develop before being winged and sent to the FTU. Just my two cents.

copy thanks

God bless the Utah Guard Soldiers Punished For Blowing Military Resources On Smutty Photo Shoot

Question for IFF grads: Did you fly any sim profiles prior to IFF flights and has anyone seen if there is a requirement for the 38 replacement to have this capability in its sim?

Yeah, thought that might be the case too. Think that was a D model 15/16? I understand how that could happen, I have never had to piss so bad as when I was solo v FAIP in a Tweet and he loved aggressive offset trail, I was on the end of the whip and he was just about max performing his jet so that gatorade I drank just prior to step was about 6Gs heavier for as long as we had airspeed or gas in the MOA. Still was the most fun flight I have ever done in the AF bar none but I just about gave up towards the end but he called BINGO first and I barely made it to the MX shack after we shut down.

Biggest aircraft in history begins construction: Microsoft co-founder provides glimpse of his proposed megaplane that will launch rockets into orbit

Valid point. Coming at it from a Guard perspective, my answer to the manpower issue (requiring a change in AF mentality) would be to offer 3-5 year contracts upon completion of FTU/award of MR qual for Guard / Reservists as required to fill those gaps (sts). The AF gets a solid return on its investment with the contract stipulating they hired for aircrew purposes not as regular officer with an expected vertical progression and other official duties. Very much like a Warrant Office but not technically a Warrant as they would still retain a regular commission. Flexibility is not only the key to airpower but to running an effective organization, we need to flex with the times.

Only one puke story - at CFIC during the summer I was challenged by my partner to the box nasty called the "Roggie" - a PBJ with BBQ chicken - what a great idea - i flew my profile at Clint-Sherman in the pattern after him with that powerful KC-135 air conditioner we all love when the motors are pulled back so after an 1.5 hour of rudder off OEI approach, go arounds, demos, instructor torture I have had enough. I call time out and go barf in the garbage bag and we head back to KLTS. But my stomach was now ready for round two, about 3 miles out from that blessed full stop I need to barf again so I give the IP the jet, barf in the Walmart bag I have and land, he tells me to get checked out which I do of course and press on from there. Ride complete and all was good but lesson learned the hard way. While not a puke story this is funny video with the radio / intercom audio of an F-4 crew with a physio

Respectfully disagree, build the curricula and allocate the time to develop the cadre, the Navy uses guys who flew E-2's and C-2's for their T-45 program and as far as I know there are no restrictions on who can teach what in their syllabus. As an AF and especially as aircrew, we've got to try to breakdown the stove-pipe mentality that once you're given wings you do only one kind of career path and that's it. Now do you want to retrain a high tenure guy in a totally new plane and mission, probably not but we shouldn't arbitrarily hamstring ourselves.

True. Did the old school program for the 135 out of UPT, looking back and having gone thru several quals since then, much was done in the aircraft that could have been done WAY cheaper and effectively in the sim. Don't get me wrong, I like the flight time and there is something to be said for the x factor in flying the real thing but instead of beating the hell out of the pattern in M10 after M10 at who knows how much, you could give your crews training that increases airmanship overall and not just in the nuances of rolling flaps at one dot above. ACE was a great idea from back in the day that could serve very well but I give 0.0000069% chance of ever happening again. You could fly a leased Extra 300 for about $400 per hour wet, get more out of it as a pilot than mind numbing instrument approach after approach and probably boost morale and airmanship about 1000%. But let's face it, make that argument to a dude whose ambition is to not fly except when the mission is a simple trainer with field grade wx and see how far that gets. Rant complete. On the subject of fighter cross-flow, couldn't the gaining and losing commands make it a one for one swap to fill the empty billets so it's a wash? Follow on question for the 11F types: Could you incorporate the syllabus of IFF into a longer syllabus for Phase 3 with the new replacement for the 38 and at least have seeded the crew force? Going old school again but when everyone went 38 they were Fighter-Bomber-Recce certified at UPT based on class rankings, couldn't you do that with a last block of tactical instruction in a new Block 3 program to UPT? Just guessing it would add 6 weeks to UPT overall.

Cool - flew the mighty Tone myself but everyone going thru the same program would have it's benefits. Multi-place training can happen after UPT in a sim prior to FTU for heavy dudes. If you can fly in formation you can say co when the checklist calls for it

SUPT could go back to UPT T-X Buy Could Grow by 200 Jets and possibly, maybe get a Red Air variant USAF Downplays T-X 'Red Air' Option