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rotorguy

Any recently approved ETP waivers?

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Approved in Oct 2013...submitted around April 2013. Prior enlisted as a MSgt....selected for F-16. @ Tucson ANG.

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Approved in Oct 2013...submitted around April 2013. Prior enlisted as a MSgt....selected for F-16. @ Tucson ANG.

Can you outline the process and timeline?

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The ETP itself is something that needs to be typed up by the member on an official letterhead. This will then be backed with a statement/letter by the unit CC, then to the ATAG and finally the TAG (who usually says they concur with the other statements). Depending on how quick and satisfied you are with the letter when you write it....I'd say it takes another month to get all the other endorsements (from the CC, ATAG and TAG). This will be submitted as a package with a copy of your logbook and the form 24 I believe. It will be up at State HQ first for first approval/proof reading/etc. then it will head up to NGB. At this point it's already around 2.5 months. NGB will then go through their steps and approve/proofread to ensure it's all good to go and that nothing is missing. They may request additional items or need clarification on whatever. After this, it took the rest of the time (approx another 3.5 months) to sit on the desk of the powers that be to approve (VCSAF). Hope this helps...I tried to recall everything off the top of my nugget.

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I'd like to follow up to this and see if anybody has had luck with an age-related ETP for the Reserves. Appreciate any input you could provide. :beer:

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I'd like to follow up to this and see if anybody has had luck with an age-related ETP for the Reserves. Appreciate any input you could provide. :beer:

I had one approved by NGB. And, I know of an officer that just had one approved this month for the Reserves.

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Thanks for the info! All the people in the last year that I've heard apply for an ETP have gotten approved. That would be about 10 people including the ones mentioned in this thread. Not that it is easy to get, but it sounds more like its a paperwork burden/waiting game more than anything. Anybody know of ETP's getting rejected, or specific stats regarding ETP approval rates?

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Thanks for the info! All the people in the last year that I've heard apply for an ETP have gotten approved. That would be about 10 people including the ones mentioned in this thread. Not that it is easy to get, but it sounds more like its a paperwork burden/waiting game more than anything. Anybody know of ETP's getting rejected, or specific stats regarding ETP approval rates?

I think if anyone did, it would show a high number since few are ever sent up unless the unit basically knows it's a situation that would be approved. If you look at the regulation, it's pretty clear. I'd imagine that most Guard commanders know when they have a workable situation. The keys being "exceptionally qualified" and "minor deviation" that meets the Air Forces needs etc. I suppose the long and short of it is, it never hurts to ask about it, and generally, if the unit is willing to push for it, they will probably get.

AFI 36-2205:

A2.3. If a member exceeds the age and/or TFCSD limits and does not meet the above criteria to be considered
for a waiver, he or she may request an exception to policy (ETP) through their MAJCOM or ANG
chain of command as directed in A2.3. Age and TFCSD limits exist to protect the interests of the total
rated force and should not be taken lightly. Exceptions to policy will normally be granted only in rare circumstances
when a commander can document sustained, exceptional performance and the deviation from
policy is minor. Further, commanders must specifically and explicitly justify why supporting an ETP for
an individual, considering a large pool of fully qualified applicants, is in the best interests of the Air
Force, Air National Guard, or Air Force Reserve. Each ETP imposes potential increased risk to operational
safety and effectiveness. Only the rare, truly exceptional individual should be endorsed and forwarded
through the chain of command for ETP consideration.
A2.3.1. ETP requests judged by the Wing/CC (or equivalent) or TAG for Air National Guard, to have
insufficient support or merit should be denied and returned to the applicant.
Basically, if you have really high scores and very applicable experience, the deviation is "minor," and the unit really wants you, then you'll be fine.

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I had an age ETP approved. My letter was basically a laundry list of what I accomplished during my career up to that point. Since you are non-prior, you would just use the highlights from school, work, volunteering, FAA ratings if you have them, etc. PM me and I can try to dig mine up and you can use it as a template.

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I just had an TCFSD ETP and an age waiver completed by NGB. I'm a prior Army Guard Infantry officer with over 5 years commissioned service (which required an ETP) as well as an age waiver, just in case the process took so long to complete. Be forewarned, this is not a fast process and I was turned down to even interview at several units due to prior commissioned service, as well as being 27 at the interview. I was hired in JUN 2013, service transferred and swore into the unit in DEC 2013, and I just received the papers back at the end of DEC 2014. Granted, I believe this could have gone a lot faster had the recruiters not changed over and been in possession of what an ETP/Waiver package looked like. Consequently, I dont believe my unit will be hiring anyone with age/ETPs in the future due to this headache- sorry guys! My unit could be an exception and I highly recommend EVERYONE try for it!

Edited by Rangerbulldog
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Good to hear man! Seems like too many people discount the "might as well try" philosophy. So when are you scheduled to start UPT and how old will you be then?

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Still waiting on dates (people out for the holidays- you know how it goes). But hopefully this week will have a firm class date! I dont turn 30 until May, but the waiver was a just-in-case. I'm glad I finally posted... I used this site extensively during the prep, interviews, ETP information, etc!

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Cool! I turn 30 in mid-February of 2016 but it's good to see that you got a just-in-case waiver since I may want to do the same just to be safe. Luckily for me I don't need the TCFSD ETP.

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likewise, i turn 30 april 2016 and may end up in the same boat depending on how 15OT01 and some other boards go.

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I'll be almost 32 by my UPT start date as a non prior and a buddy of mine from a Midwest unit who is prior service will be starting UPT at 32. There are definitely units out there that are willing to take a chance, you just have to show them your commitment, have an awesome attitude, and bring some good experience to the table.

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I just launched out WG/CC who told me they were briefed by NGB "don't even send ETPs." So there is a disconnect somewhere.

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I think there is indeed a disconnect, or at least some sort of grey area. I was speaking with the squadron and wing commander at a recent drill about my timeline; about the various contingency plans we had to get me into UPT in time in case something were to come up like an administrative delay or scheduling issues.

The Wing Commander said if it really came down to it, they could push a waiver, and he was confident that it would be approved, which was quite unexpected by me and the Squadron Commander. We were under the impression that ETPs were not being considered at this time. Just a little while after that, I heard about these two examples in this thread.

I'd say if you're going to get one, it's going to have to be something other than just being an older guy who spontaneously realized late in life that he wanted to be a military aviator. You're probably also going to have to have some significant qualifications and experience to bring to the table, along with a great attitude, good aptitude scores, and a good fitness level. I think the NGB was just getting tired of people asking all the time. The demand for pilots also ebbs and flows.

I most likely won't need one, but it's good to hear these stories to know that it's a possibility in case it becomes necessary.

Edited by xcraftllc

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Yeah, there is a disconnect... I just received mine back from NGB last month, but I have no idea how AFRC works (just in case anyone is wondering). The contents of the package are what I believe to be the unknown for most recruiters if they have not done them before. I can try to get a copy of my package in case anyone needs to help their recruiters out. I've heard everything from "no ETPs will be considered," "only a certain number of ETPs are approved each year so it behooves you to not be at the end of the FY," to "as long as your wing and state have signed off on you, you're good." Unless someone called the guy on the approval line of my ETP to get the straight answer, you'll get various responses from everyone. However, not having to get an ETP is absolutely the best track you can go down.

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I dont believe my unit will be hiring anyone with age/ETPs in the future due to this headache

Seems like too many people discount the "might as well try" philosophy.

This.

It really seems to be more of an induced policy at the lower levels just because of how much of a headache it has been for others, and frankly because the prevailing and unproven thought that ETP's for age are rare to impossible.

I had mine approved (AFRC) after a year of unit's telling me they liked me but didn't think an ETP was even possible. One unit finally tried and got it. Even the guy running that show remarked "I was told don't bother with this ETP, glad I didn't listen and tried anyway".

End of the day: When a unit likes you and goes to the ropes for you, it's more likely than not IMHO.

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Reviving this thread. I am active duty (non-rated) wanting to make the switch to the guard/reserve and wanting to build a competitive package for a UPT pilot slot. I am 27 and am hitting my 5 year TFCSD this June. My intent was to start working an ETP for my TFCS time now since it appears to take a long time. From the thread it seems as though most of you have submitted through the guard or reserve unit you were applying to. Since I am on active duty currently I figured I would route it through that chain. Is there something specific about the ETP approval that limits it to just active duty, guard, or reserve... or will my route work for any of them? Also, if anyone is willing to share their ETP package with me that I can use as a template it would be much appreciated.

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