stuckindayton
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Posts posted by stuckindayton
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On 4/6/2025 at 5:48 PM, DankPanda99 said:
Has anyone heard/got a waiver for this "PDQ: history of lattice and round hole vision" & "PDQ: retinal surgery" ? Got told I need a waiver for this at MEPS. I just wanted to see if anyone else has experience in getting a waiver for this. I have never had a retinal detachment and have had laserpexy treatment for the rental hole as a precaution to prevent retinal detachments. My vision is unaffected by the laserpexy treatment.
Dank,
Assuming you are not a high myope (more than -5.50) and everything is how you describe, there should not be an issue. Waiver guide on retinal holes is below.
You are applying for IFC I with a low risk retinal hole treated with retinopexy. According to the first paragraph, your condition might not even be disqualifying, however a history of retinal surgery might dictate an indefinite waiver. Regardless, unless there is something else found you should be GTG.
Going through MEPS is always a crapshoot for everyone. IFC I should be better.
Cheers,
Steve
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On 1/19/2025 at 3:03 AM, wikz said:
hey y'all, this has been a possibility ive been thinking of and I was wondering how it would go with an FC1. a while ago, I would get chronic ear infections and was given allergy medicine and ear drops that only fixes the problem slightly. I can wear headphones for a bit and my ears now only get irritated, and sometimes my hearing lessens a little; almost like a preceding ear infection, but after a day or two, my ear is fine.
I figured this would be a problem that I would need to address before an FC1 or getting hired because when and if I get picked up at my unit and I am flying at UPT, IFF, b-COURSE, etc., my ears will definitely be covered for long periods of time (HGU-55P). this will for sure irritate my ears.
TLDR; if I got tympanoplasty surgery before getting hired, would that disqualify me at my FC1, requiring a waiver? Or, should I wait to get hired and get surgery after since right now my guard unit is taking 3 years+ to send 11F's to UPT?
The latest MSD I could find with information regarding this is from 2020. It says "For initial applicants, tympanic perforation or surgery is disqualifying until 120 days post-operative and hearing is normal." It also says "Any conditions that interfere with the auditory or vestibular functions are disqualifying."
If you had surgery prior to FCI and it was successful, you would be GTG 120+ days post surgery at your FCI (makes life easy). If you chose not to get the surgery until later, just be careful what you report at FCI as the second statement could come into play and they could DQ you pending surgery. Not a big deal, but could be an administrative headache.
Either way works.
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Anything can be waived if the waiver authority chooses to do so. I'm surprised the WP docs said they'd recommend a waiver since their recommendations are supposed to follow the waiver guide. Things might work differently now.
It can't hurt to include IOPs from a civilian doc, but generally the AF doesn't pay much attention to civilian exams for various reasons.
I wasn't going to mention what Pbar did, but he is correct. PRK will bring your IOP down. So will eye drops and certain plants that people smoke. I'll just leave it at that.
I wish you the best and I'm sorry to not have better feedback.
Steve
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On 11/25/2024 at 9:29 AM, nonflyboy said:
Yea, I'm still lurking around.
Eye pressure has been an item that the Air Force has been very wary of historically. A few years ago, the policy was an IOP of 22 or higher was DQing with no waiver. That was plain old stupid because (as you now know), IOP alone really doesn't mean that much unless it is crazy high, ie. >30. Also, IOP is influenced by corneal thickness because the applanation tonometer is simply measuring resistance over an area to determine pressure. Corneal thickness is part of this equation. Thus, thicker corneas tend to read higher and vice versa for thin corneas.
Average corneal thickness is around 540 microns. So, the Air Force was willing to give some wiggle room if the corneal was thicker than average and now allows an IOP up to 26 if the corneal is above 540 microns.
Personally, I don't like the policy and most of the eye docs at WP don't either. But, the AF doesn't like big changes to policy and getting the corneal thickness measurement in the equation and going up to 26 was a big change and a step in the right direction even if it is not ideal.
It sounds like you DO NOT have glaucoma. One of the tests they do called an OCT can demonstrate this. You have ocular hypertension that may lead to glaucoma someday, but that's it. Glaucoma is generally an old person disease. The likelihood of this ever impacting a flying career is exceedingly low.
It's a tough one because the AF hears elevated IOP and immediately thinks glaucoma....blindness. The problem is that when you measure something you get a number and when you get a number you need a limit. The docs would prefer the policy just say glaucoma is DQing. That leaves too much room for interpretation and standards don't like that.
Best of luck,
Steve
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23 hours ago, scascopes said:
Hello Everybody,
I recently went to WP for an IFC1 as an OTS Civilian Hire for an AFR heavy Unit.
The ophthalmologist diagnosed me with an exophoria outside of the waiverable standards. I was told not to "change any plans" but it seemed that they were preparing me for a DQ or to get an ETP Waiver.
After consulting with the flight doc at the end of the week, I was informed that they would put in a waiver for my exophoria, as a I passed depth perception and every other portion of the IFC1. They seemed rather reluctant telling me the situation, even though I had heard from the ophthalmologist prior that it was outside of standard waiver guidelines.
This leaves me questioning the possibility of "exophoria outside of standard" being waived. I can't seem to find any information about this outside a few anecdotes posted on here in different threads.
One thing I regret from this is that I didn't ask either the ophthalmologist or FD how many diopters my misalignment was.
I understand that it's rather unlikely for the waiver to get approved by AETC but wondering if anybody had a similar experience or any flight docs have seen any similar circumstances that were either denied or approved.
Anyways, thank you in advance for any gouge or advice!
As I'm sure the docs at WP explained, the concern with a phoria is that it may become symptomatic and result in headaches, blurred vision, double vision, etc. Being tired and hypoxic only adds to this risk.
I don't know how they are doing things these days (it sounds like a lot has changed in the five years since I left), but when I was at WP we would do a bunch of tests involved in looking at how well the eyes work together and the amount of effort the person has to exert to overcome their phoria. If we felt comfortable it wasn't going to be an issue years down the road we'd recommend a waiver and vice-versa. Does any of this sound familiar?
The fact that you are going to a known airframe that happens to be multi-crew is in your favor since you are not in sole control of the aircraft at all times. Beyond that, I really don't know the waiver climate right now. However, historically, waivers for phorias did happen and it wasn't all that rare.
Good luck.
Steve
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Sorry to hear about your friend's misfortune. Gout sucks.
The waiver guide states that any history of gout for FCI is not waiverable. It does report that a single FCI waiver was granted at some point, but no specifics are given.
I don't know how the civilian world handles it, but my assumption is that there are waivers for gout when it can be managed appropriately.
Hate to be the bearer of lousy news, but I wouldn't expect a favorable decision from the Air Force on this one.
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Google “Air Force MSD” and look at Table One. There are no uncorrected acuity standards for pilot applicants. They were dropped about 5 years ago. Now, there are refractive limits only and they are rather generous. Your corneal scar may or may not need a waiver depending on specifics of the case. You must have vision correctable to 20/20 in each eye at distance and near. They almost never waive that for pilot applicants.
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On 10/25/2023 at 10:27 PM, wikz said:
little bit of a thread revival.
I was erroneously DQ'd by the MEPS chief medical officer 3 months ago for cuts on my legs (ive never cut myself before), which is ridiculous because everyone has scars on their legs from being active as a kid. i somehow got lucky and was the only one examined by this doctor, and everyone else that had the same cicatrixs' I did were passed through. even my recruiter was appalled by ….
MEPS is a complete sham. Laziest POS doctors I’ve ever seen. They don’t care about getting it right. Just collecting a paycheck. You can win this, just keep fighting it. Don’t give up.
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Thanks O Face and Burt for confirming the path forward. I'm super excited he's flying with the local unit and he just got hired by NetJets as well. FC I is complete, although WP was a bit touch and go. They find stuff even parents didn't know about!
This forum is a great resource. Happy I can contribute a little now and then.
Cheers.
Steve
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52 minutes ago, Guardian said:
Guard reserve standard. Yes. Sadly it is.
Swear in asap! Might be able to get some days and pay. Sorry that it takes so long. A year or more isn’t unheard of.Thank you, will do. Never too early to start learning the ways of the AF.
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My son got hired to fly C-17s at the local Reserve unit. He was verbally hired in December and they have no idea when he will get picked up for OTS/UPT/SERE, etc. They don't think it will be until next year and he obviously isn't getting paid at this time. However, they want him to swear in next week despite no timetable for moving forward. Is this normal?
Is taking the oath akin to signing a contract? Does one incur an obligation when they take the oath or does that only come with signing a contract?
I'm confused by the timing of events. Thanks in advance.
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23 minutes ago, Togapowerr said:
Hello again! I’ve made it through OTS and I am finally sitting as a casual at my UPT base. I’m scheduled to start pilot training in a few months....
Pretty much what the optometrist said- the flight doc just needs to confirm you meet all flight standards before you start flying. You don't need to repeat the FC I since it's good for four years, so no worries about whether your prescription is within standard. It's just to confirm that you meet standards for distant/near acuity, depth perception, air puff eye pressure, etc. using either your glasses or contact lenses or both. They will also check your blood pressure, listen to your heart, and all the other good stuff that goes along with a routine exam.
In regards to eyes and vision, the primary purpose is mostly to make sure that you have a current set of glasses, especially those highly desirable aircrew specs. No one is expecting a problem at this point.
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2 hours ago, Togapowerr said:
Thank you once again! I have one last question - is it true that once you are complete with UPT (and considered a "trained airmen") that your next comprehensive IFC-type of exam will only grade you to FC2 standards?
You are correct. Trained pilots are required to meet FC II standards which are significantly more lenient than FC I. If you don’t meet FC II standards waivers are given for most everything at that point. The only time a trained pilot gets DQ’d is when there is a safety of flight concern or when they don’t meet retention standards.
There really isn’t an FC II exam comparable to the FC I process. You are required to have an annual PHA, which is done by the flight doc and that’s pretty much it.
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Annual eye exams are not required for people wearing solely glasses. You are only required to have annual exams if you want to wear contact lenses when you fly for the AF because that requires you to be in the soft contact lens program. If you want to wear them for cosmetic reasons, you don't have to be enrolled in the program, but I suspect you'd have to pay for the contact lens care off base (you typically have to buy your own contact lenses either way). Historically, you had to be in the contact lens program if you chose to wear contact lenses for ANY reason while at UPT, but they changed the policy a couple of years ago to say it was only required if you wore contacts when flying.Correction: The change to the soft contact lens policy from a couple of years ago was to allow trained pilots (and other aircrew) to wear contact lenses off duty without having to enroll in the soft contact lens program. I thought it applied to UPT students, but it does not. If you wear contact lenses off duty during UPT, you are still required to be enrolled in the program and, thus, would be required to have an annual eye exam. Is anyone going to know if you do wear contact lenses on your time? Probably not.
The vision check at the flight docs office is basically visual acuity (ie. 20/20 distant and near) and depth perception. You will only be referred to optometry if you don't meet standards with your glasses. I also believe they discontinued annual color vision testing at your annual PHA so that's one less thing to worry about.
From what I've heard, glasses work OK at UPT. If you move on to airframes with certain helmet system (JHMCS, JSAM, F-35), contact lenses are often far more practical for compatibility reasons. Spectacles don't fit well under them and are not comfortable at all when wearing the helmets.
No worries on the questions. I'm retired.
BTW- eye infections are incredibly rare if you don't sleep in your contact lenses and otherwise give your eyes a break from them now and then.
Steve
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Routine eye exams are not required by AF policy. They only time you are required to see the optometrist is if you fail part of the vision screening at the flight doc office or if you wear contact lenses (annual eye exams required).
I've heard of some UPT commanders requiring eye exams off all UPT entrants just to catch any underlying vision problems that might impact UPT performance, but that is a one off decision.
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10 hours ago, Togapowerr said:
Hi all, I’m in a similar situation and wanted some input. So, I’m headed to OTS next week on a pilot slot for AD. If all goes well, I’ll be headed to UPT sometime after that (I heard that wait times can be around 6+ months).
I already got my IFC done at Wright Patt last June. Here’s the thing - I barely squeaked by on the vision portion as I had a refractive error of -3.00. Anything worse and I would’ve been DQ’d. However, I was lucky and get approved.
Now, I’ve learned from these forums that trained aircrew/pilots only need to meet FC2 criteria. However, I’ll still be considered “initial” aircrew before UPT. What happens if my refractive error gets worse than -3.00? Will I just lose my pilot slot? Can I get a waiver? Is refractive error even measured again after your IFC?
In short, I’m FC1 qualified but I’m worried that if my refractive error gets measured again right before UPT, I’ll be just outside the limits if my vision got any worse
Your IFC I is good for four years (I believe). Unless you are delayed to such a degree that you won't finish UPT before the four years is up, your refraction is not going to be rechecked during that time. Even if you go in for an eye exam, they won't do the full cycloplegic refraction required to formally measure refractive error. So no worries.
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On 2/26/2023 at 9:51 AM, Burt said:
Thread revival. When at my FC1 the flight doc told me to try to get enrolled in the soft contacts lense program through my unit before heading to UPT because once at training they don't want to take the time to schedule your follow-up appointments between classes (1 week, 1 month, 6 month, etc). A lot of the pilots in my unit said the same thing but our optometrist on-base is a DSG and can't do the 1 week follow-up appointment. So it sounds like I might not be able to get enrolled in the program before UPT. I still need to touch base with our flight doc to see if it's something he could waive (he's gone this UTA) but I've noticed some older posts about if you've been wearing approved soft contacts for 6 months prior to UPT you can get enrolled in the program once you arrive to your training base (you just have to do it first thing when you're medical in-progressing).
Any recent experiences with this? I'm also thinking about reaching out to some AD bases around where I live but my experience with that has historically been that flight medicine dosent like to work with people if it's not their responsibility. I've been wearing approved lenses for the past couple of years.
I've always assumed the 1 week/month, 6 month follow-up was a requirement for new contact lens wearers. If you are in an approved lens prior to showing up, I would expect the optometrist will enroll you in the soft contact lens program at UPT.
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7 minutes ago, twoTangoKilo said:
Wow that's it?? I was thinking that was maybe standard for enlisted aircrew or something, then D, E, F were scores for certain category of aircraft pilots. Thanks for the quick response!
Yep that's it. Air Force changed the standard from 25 arc sec (line D) to 40 arc sec (line B) about five years ago.
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2 hours ago, twoTangoKilo said:
Looking for a definitive answer as to what line is actually a PASS for pilots. I've read pilots have to get D, E, or F and I've also read here more recently that the standard pass line is B. Is B just a pass for MEPS entries and pilots have to score higher? Headed to FC1 next week and just trying to manage my expectations.
You must correctly identify line B. Three correct answers. Line A is there for practice only.
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On 2/5/2023 at 4:09 AM, Padres02 said:
Padre
PRK is a non issue in most cases. In fact most people who have a good outcome won’t need a waiver. I wouldn’t worry about it unless you think you have a problem with your eyes/vision. You will need a copy of your pre/post and surgical records for your Flying Class I.
The folks at Wright-Patt will take care of everything and should let you know what needs to be done.
Best of luck. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Steve
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I don't think there's any way to bypass MEPS. I know someone who recently got hired by a reserve unit and MEPS was the first step.
You are correct that MEPS is a crap shoot and can certainly complicate things un-necessarily.
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On 1/18/2023 at 1:07 PM, SOF_CSO said:
I had one quick question for you guys. As I shift gears from the active duty board to guard applications when I write my cover letter should I state that I already have Age and TFCSD waivers already approved that the AETC A1 level or is that a mute point and I will I have to work a completely new set of waivers for the guard?
SOF_CSO,
I'm fairly certain your waivers follow you and don't need to be re-accomplished. AETC is the waiver authority for everyone (active duty, ANG, AFRES) going through UPT so your current waiver should still be valid. They may have expiration dates attached to them which could come into play. Anyone in flight medicine should be able to look them up and find out that information for you if needed.
Best of luck.
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3 hours ago, HomieSath said:
Hello, I am applying for a reserve flight engineer job and was required to get a waiver for my history of ADHD. I was recommended qualified by the flight doc and they will be submitting my waiver and flight physical up to the AFRC HQ. Does anyone know if my chances of getting the waiver approved are good if I was recommended qualified by the doc? Thanks.
It really all comes down to whether you meet the waiver criteria. The flight doc can make any recommendation they choose, but the waiver authority follows the waiver guidelines the vast, vast majority of the time. All of this can be found in the Air Force Waiver guide if you want to review it. I'd post it, but it's a large file. Google "air force waiver guide 2022" and it's your first hit.
Best of luck.
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20 hours ago, Paulina said:
Hello so I have been doing some research for months now but it seems like I keep getting different answers everywhere. I was diagnosed with scoliosis recently and its 22 degrees Thoracic and 18 degrees Lumbar... so do I have any chance at a waiver?
Here's what the waiver guide says:
Based on those numbers, you are potentially waiverable. This is not my area of expertise, so I don't know what other factors go into waivers, but at least you are on the good side of the line based on the figures you report.
Vision waiver info
in Aviation Medicine
Posted
It's entirely possible you are one of the first ones coming through IFC I with ICLs.