Guard/Reserve to Active Duty

[Guest mexico]

Quick question. I am currently a new LT in a unit that is being BRAC'd to close. I know that I need to look for another unit to pick me up pretty soon since my unit gave me the blessing to start scouting out other units. However, I have strongly considered joining AD. I really enjoy the unit that I am in and the mentality of the guard/reserves, however, being a bum is not what it used to be with all the furloughed guys. When I first got hired, I didn't want to get a full time civilian job for the first few years so that I could be a dedicated bum and learn the ropes of flying with my unit and be dedicated to my unit. And I feel that if I did get a full time civilian job, it would take me away from doing certain trips and not staying very current. But I would like a steady income and medical and with the BRAC I have to relocate now anyways. Therefore AD is sounding very good. Is it even something that is possible as a pilot or should I just stay the the guard/reserves and try to pick up as many trips that are available?

[Bergman]

Originally posted by cabanaboy:

I feel that if I did get a full time civilian job, it would take me away from doing certain trips and not staying very current.

This is very true! Do not underestimate the hassle associated with having a "real" civilian job (read: non-airline) and flying for the ANG. It can be done, but there will be some hardships.

But I would like a steady income and medical and with the BRAC I have to relocate now anyways. Therefore AD is sounding very good.

Those are the exact reasons I have encouraged many young Lts to stay on AD versus going after the greener grass on our side of the fence.

Is it even something that is possible as a pilot or should I just stay the the guard/reserves and try to pick up as many trips that are available?

Now for the bad news. The active duty is overmanned on officers right now, so your chances are about 0% of going to active duty. I was recently told by a guy at AFPC assignments that AD is 104% manned for pilots right now. Check out the general discussion forum topic on the "LT RIF" for the 02-03 year groups...the AD is going to be forcing people out soon!

I suspect that when AD is short of pilots in another 2-3 years, they will be offering a crossflow program, but for now it's not looking good.

[Guest sleepy]

cabanaboy...now that's a funny name.

That's all I got. Good luck with the sh!tty situation, though.

[Guest terryrea]

What about Navigators? Are there stories of crossflow or going from Nav in the guard to UPT in AD?

[Bergman]

Originally posted by rayon:

What about Navigators? Are there stories of crossflow or going from Nav in the guard to UPT in AD?

Most of the time guys end up getting out of AD to go to UPT with the guard. It could probably be done, but your chances of being selected for UPT are much greater in the ANG...especially if you are already a navigator in the unit!

As far as I know, there is NO crossflow for any officers from the ANG to AD right now. A year ago they were letting C-17, MH-53, and U-2 qualified pilots back on to AD but that has since stopped as well.

The problem lies with AFPC (go figure). They just say "we're over-manned with officers!!!" and don't differentiate between the AFSCs...so even though they are, say, 70% manned on navs but are 110% manned on officers in general, the deciding factor is still being an officer not AFSC. Thus, the USAF is screwing themselves. Again.

[Nanook]

I agree with Bergman, you're better off trying to get a UPT slot while already in a unit, it works that way in ours. The AFPC website has some useful links for people interested in AD from ARC, but when I checked it a few days ago all the programs were closed. AFRC is currently enforcing a policy set out in an AFRCI, and mirrored in an AFI (I have it at work, but not here at home) that only allows officers with less than 5 years of TAFCS to apply for UFT. In other words, if you're a nav and can't enter UPT before you've been an officer for 5 years, you're SOL.

[Scooter14]

Originally posted by Nanook:

AFRC is currently enforcing a policy set out in an AFRCI, and mirrored in an AFI (I have it at work, but not here at home) that only allows officers with less than 5 years of TAFCS to apply for UFT. In other words, if you're a nav and can't enter UPT before you've been an officer for 5 years, you're SOL.

Last I heard from the NGB (for those interested in the ANG) the 5 yrs TAFSC is not really an issue. It can be waived, but the process can take time. So, if you have more than 5 yrs TAFCS, still apply for the ANG. If you are a nav in the unit, and the unit is transitioning to a non-nav platform (J model -130, for example), the rules get even more liberal.

[Nanook]

Scooter,

You might be correct for AFRC also, I haven't heard anyone press to test yet. I believe the parent reg is 36-2205, but am unsure what the AFRCI is. My wing king tells me that this is one of the hot topics when they meet for rallies.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I would add something here but Bergman already hit a walk-off bomb.

[Guest Wicked27]

First post and just want to say this board is awesome. You guys have saved me a lot of trouble applying to pilot slots due to sucky recruiters and all the red tape. Used the search function and found plenty of information on AD pilot transfers to ANG, but whats the deal if an ANG pilot wants to transfer to AD due to BRAC or airframe changes, or just wants to fly more than what is offered by the ANG unit? Is this possible?

[herkbum]

Last I heard- ANG to AD pilot is not possible. I believe it has to do with the overage the AD guys have now. You can check Air Guard Homepage -but this will have to be done from a .mil server. Go to Jobs, Title 10 Vacancies, there is a recall to AD section at the bottom of the page. My unit is on the BRAC and I called AFPC/ARPC when it was announced to ask this same question. That is where I got my answer- no recalls at this time and none scheduled in the future. Again, this did pertain to C-130's, I can't speak for other airframes, but I imagine it's the same story. Hope this helps.

[herkbum]

Don't be so hasty! You can fly quite a bit in the Guard. I was talking to a friend from UPT the other day, who happens to be AD; I have twice as many hours as him. He was floored how many hours we get in the Guard. The good thing about Guard flying is you can fly as much or as little as you want. Typically, when we fly locals, there are only two pilots on board. So you can bang out a ton of work in two hours. Our co's are getting as much time as they want. Talk to the Guard unit and find out how much flying they are doing before you make any big decisions. Also talk to some AD units and see how much flying time their co-pilot's are getting. You might try floating the question on the General Discussion board, I'm sure you will get some pretty good insight. Basically, do some research and see what you want to do. Don't make any decisions based off one question on a message board.

Edit: I guess I need to read the General Discussion message board first. Wicked27, I didn't realize you were talking about fighters. I can't give you any accurate info on that side of the house. My post deals with the -130 side. Sorry.

[ 01. March 2006, 21:42: Message edited by: herkbum ]

[Guest Wicked27]

I understand now why one of my buddies who's a C-17 pilot said he could have flown just as much with the guard.....I guess it all depends on airframe and unit.

Wicked

[Guest rtstolwo]

My dream is to fly in the AD Air Force. I am working right now to get a package in for this next board (OTS). However, with the competitive nature of the OTS board I understand it would be wise to fish with a few lines, i.e. an ANG Unit or two. The thing is that I want to fly AD, and do that for the full 20 or more (at least as far as I can tell right now). Is it possible to get trained by a guard unit and then transfer to active? Would that be uncool to screw the guys who hired me like that (going in knowing that I probably won't stay with the Unit)?

I did a search for this but got nothing. The reason I started thinking about it is because I happen to know a few of the "higher up's" in my local Guard Unit and think I may have a pretty good chance there if they get a slot to fill. My main question is do units expect some of their guys to transfer to active or would I be a complete dick for doing that (using them to get rated then leaving)? And please, no flames, this idea just came to me and being completely ignorant of stuff on the guard side of the house I really don't know how it works.

[Guest checksix]

Yes you can go from guard to AD. As for your other questions I'll let someone with more experience answer.

[SUX]

That would be a complete dick thing to do, and you would burn any bridges that you currently have at that unit. Additionally you would become an asset of that unit and just because you apply for a transfer to AD doesn't mean that they will approve it.

[Guest jerseybum]

Would that be uncool to screw the guys who hired me like that (going in knowing that I probably won't stay with the Unit)?

Uhhhh YEAH (?) - They're not terribly easy to come by either. If AD is what you want then stick with that plan and do the OTS thing.

Hopefully the unit would realize your a dick before you screw over the applicants who actually want to be there and stick around.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

That's what I wanted to know, I won't be doing that then. Thanks for the input.

Think about it.

No one should be pissedif you decide to go active duty. That's like saying the active duty should be pissed if a guy leaves to go to the Guard.

[KingHerc]

Think about it.

No one should be pissedif you decide to go active duty. That's like saying the active duty should be pissed if a guy leaves to go to the Guard.

I dont know When I got out of active duty there were AD guys who were pissed

Edited May 25, 2007 by KingHerc

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I dont know When I got out of active duty there were AD guys who were pissed

Noted. That happens to a lot of guys. It happened to me. However, I also learned some valuable lessons in leadership from some senior officers I respected.

My point was that the guys who are pissed about how you choose to serve your country are dead wrong.

I was sitting on a BTZ DP to Lt Col when separated from AD and took an AGR job in the Guard. My immediate boss (Sq/CC) was furious. He said "I can't believe you're going to stab me in the back like this, turn down an early promotion and a school slot just to go to the goddam Guard! All I'm going to say is there is a rat in the word separate. Get out of my office." To him, my decision was somehow a personal insult.

There were several majors in the wing who felt I stole their BTZ DP who were also quite pissed. I understood their frustration but not their logic. I didn't give myself the PRF.

The FW/CC gave me that PRF seven weeks after he had already signed my separation paperwork.

When the PRFs came out I went to the DOG/CC, OG/CC and FW/CCs offices to explain that I was, indeed, intending to take the AGR job in the Guard. They acknowledged that they were well aware and didn't care. I then went to the AWC/CCs office and said the same thing. He didn't care either. They all said they called it like they saw it and that I was welcome to change my mind and pull my separation papers if I wanted but they supported my decision either way. They said they didn't see me as a "quitter" since I was only changing from Title 10 to Title 32. The OG/CC, DOG/CC, FW/CC and AWC/CC all applauded my decision and said I would be welcome back whenever I said the word.

My original decision to go to the Guard was very difficult and it took me 18 months from the original offer until I actually accepted. I almost changed my mind 1000 times, especially the day all but one of my bosses showed me I had their complete support. I was lucky to be in such a win-win situation and lucky to have been under the command of so many great leaders.

I learned a lot about leadership through that experience, which is why I am advising this guy not to worry about what the people in his Guard unit think about him wanting to go on active duty.

[Stiffler]

Ya, I think you can apply to both. I did, and was ready to leave in one month for AD OTS, but then the Guard unit I am currently in hired me, and I had to give up the OTS slot. I chose the Guard over AD, but had both irons in the fire.

Now, that wasnt an easy conversation with the recruiter on Active Duty!

But in the end, I made the right decision.

In all honesty though, I think its easier to get an AD slot if you stick with it and are qualified.

Good luck!

[SuperWSO]

To answer the initial question, yes it can be done. I was hired by the Kansas ANG back in 1995 to fly B-1s. I was commisioned through AMS in '96. I went through all the training and flew for about 3 years before the AF reorganized and pulled the Bones out and left the unit with KC-135Rs (no navigators) and some really cool desk jobs (they really were, no sh!t.) However, I hadn't hit my first flying gate and still enjoyed flying. I transitioned from the Guard to Active Duty.

Many guys who have worked under both systems generally joined the Guard to get away from some aspect of the Active Duty lifestyle they didn't like. In my wing, I think only about 4-5 guys switched back to Active Duty.

The other consideration is active duty manpower requirements. When I made the jump in 2002, the war had just kicked off and they were trying to get aviators any way they could - some guys were even being brought back after separating from the AF. Currently, the AF is trying to reduce numbers, so it might be harder to transition to Active Duty right now. Just like with uniforms in the Air Force, if you wait a year, that will probably change.

There are other options to consider. I think there used to be some opportunities for Guard guys to take a 2-3 year assignment working in/with the active duty that were designed to provide "career broadening" Current guard guys can probably provide more info on that, but there are probably options there as well.

[Guest Dwight Schrute]

Noted. That happens to a lot of guys. It happened to me. However, I also learned some valuable lessons in leadership from some senior officers I respected.

My point was that the guys who are pissed about how you choose to serve your country are dead wrong.

I was sitting on a BTZ DP to Lt Col when separated from AD and took an AGR job in the Guard. My immediate boss (Sq/CC) was furious. He said "I can't believe you're going to stab me in the back like this, turn down an early promotion and a school slot just to go to the goddam Guard! All I'm going to say is there is a rat in the word separate. Get out of my office." To him, my decision was somehow a personal insult.

There were several majors in the wing who felt I stole their BTZ DP who were also quite pissed. I understood their frustration but not their logic. I didn't give myself the PRF.

The FW/CC gave me that PRF seven weeks after he had already signed my separation paperwork.

When the PRFs came out I went to the DOG/CC, OG/CC and FW/CCs offices to explain that I was, indeed, intending to take the AGR job in the Guard. They acknowledged that they were well aware and didn't care. I then went to the AWC/CCs office and said the same thing. He didn't care either. They all said they called it like they saw it and that I was welcome to change my mind and pull my separation papers if I wanted but they supported my decision either way. They said they didn't see me as a "quitter" since I was only changing from Title 10 to Title 32. The OG/CC, DOG/CC, FW/CC and AWC/CC all applauded my decision and said I would be welcome back whenever I said the word.

My original decision to go to the Guard was very difficult and it took me 18 months from the original offer until I actually accepted. I almost changed my mind 1000 times, especially the day all but one of my bosses showed me I had their complete support. I was lucky to be in such a win-win situation and lucky to have been under the command of so many great leaders.

I learned a lot about leadership through that experience, which is why I am advising this guy not to worry about what the people in his Guard unit think about him wanting to go on active duty.

Good to hear that some guys in leadership supported you either way. When I went throught the process and got accepted for the whole force shaping thing my sq/do stated "well, it looks like you got your wish and will be out of the military". WTFO? I was going to a reserve unit, as a bum, with no intentions of leaving that life for a while. A little off in the weeds from the original point of the thread...Happy 4th everyone!

[Guest Boomhauer]

I am an H2 qualified C-130 FE in an ANG unit. Is it possible to go Active Duty? I was told the AF is not accepting prior service of any kind. Is there a work around to this?

[Guest evil load]

Call an AD squadron at Little Rock or Dyess and see what they have to say. Also, you can try calling an AD recruiter in your area. Worse case, check with your XP office on those long term tours over in the desert.