Herniated disc

[Guest fighterjets]

=) Thanks for your input. I will definetly be doing all I can to get in. Cutting it close with the age is my biggest concern at the moment.

[Guest Tlicious1020]

I have had a herniated disc for six months. The flight doc thought I had pulled a muscle or something but after finally getting an MRI I got the truth. Well, the flight doc sent me for injections and he just cleared me yesterday to finish off pilot training. I am in phase II and the flight doc has to get me a waiver from the Air Force for my herniated disc. He said it should come back in about a week or two. Should I worry about the Air Force granting me a waiver since I’m currently on a navy base and I have been down for 6 months? It took forever to find out what was actually wrong and to get me a chiropractor off base.

[ 07. January 2007, 14:44: Message edited by: Tlicious1020 ]

[Guest awfltdoc]

I have had pilots waivered for "herniated" lumbar disc once they were asymptomatic. I am assuming you didn't have a frank herniation of the nucleus pulposus of the disc in question.

[Guest Tlicious1020]

Yes, I am asymptomatic from my lower lumbar L4- herniated disc. However, I don't have a clue what herniation of the nucleus pulposus means so I can't answer this question for you.

[ 06. January 2007, 00:39: Message edited by: Tlicious1020 ]

[Guest Flight]

Any chance of getting a waiver like that to get into pilot training. I had a herniation on my L5-S1 and got DQ'd as a cadet at Brooks. I'm now on active duty, so is there any greater chance to get a waiver?

[Guest awfltdoc]

Originally posted by Tlicious1020:

Yes, I am asymptomatic from my lower lumbar L4- herniated disc. However, I don't have a clue what herniation of the nucleus pulposus means so I can't answer this question for you.

A disc is composed of the tought outer shell of fiberous material and the center is like the squishy center filling. The center is called the nucleus pulposus. A herniated dics can imply that just the outer shell is protruding from its normal position or it can be a more serious problem of the rupture of the shell material and the extruding of the squishy center stuff (frank herniation of the nucleus pulposus). The first case is likely to be waivered.

[Guest awfltdoc]

Originally posted by Flight:

Any chance of getting a waiver like that to get into pilot training. I had a herniation on my L5-S1 and got DQ'd as a cadet at Brooks. I'm now on active duty, so is there any greater chance to get a waiver?

Honestly, I don't know for sure. Perhaps one of the other moderators can be more accurate. However, my first thought would be maybe. There might be a chance depending on your individual history, physical findings, and tests.

[Guest Tlicious1020]

Yes, "my outer shell is protruding from its normal position." The flight doc calls it a bulging disc. He said lots of people have them. Not a big concern.

[Guest awfltdoc]

Tlicious1020, I agree with your flight doc. I figure you will be waived pretty soon.

[Guest AltazanSW]

Question about Initial FC3's

I was in the enlistment process for the reserves (53rd Weather Reconnaissance Squadron @ Keesler), to become a loadmaster. In between my Bloodwork/X-Ray and the actual physical, I was diagnosed with a herniation of L5-S1 due to a work related injury (I'm a civilian paramedic). The MRI and its interpretation doesn't say anything about the Nucleus Pulposis being herniated, nor did my Spine specialist. It's not expected to require surgery or anything invasive, he thinks it will heal on its own. I'm currently doing physical therapy and NSAID's.

I'm Prior Service Army National Guard, 10 years in, E-4.

My physical's been cancelled until I'm healed up.

Any chance for a waiver? Worst case scenario: Will I be able to enlist but not fly?

Thanks for any info!

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Thread revival:

Currently a Phase II student here at Sheppard, just found out I have a 10mm L5S1 herniation that is going to require a microdiscectomy. From reading the waiver guide, I see that a FC1A waiver is not possible, so I'm starting to explore my options once I'm post surgery and (hopefully) 100%.

The way I see it, I have two options.

1. ETP; does anyone know anything about building an ETP? What factors influence the outcome? Who is the deciding factor in this situation? (I'm a guard guy)? I've been through AMS/SERE/Water/IFS, and I'm PCS'd in place here at Shep, it seems like there's an awfully lot of money already invested, is that grounds for at least consideration?

2. Maybe some route leading through Whiting Field? I believe they're still flying T-34s and according to a Marine friend of mine, they have AF UPT studs come through there all the time. Not really sure how that would work in my current situation being in the Guard, might have to ask that in the G/R forum.

Any insight, thoughts, considerations, etc - are appreciated.

[Guest goducks]

Thread revival:

Currently a Phase II student here at Sheppard, just found out I have a 10mm L5S1 herniation that is going to require a microdiscectomy. From reading the waiver guide, I see that a FC1A waiver is not possible, so I'm starting to explore my options once I'm post surgery and (hopefully) 100%.

The way I see it, I have two options.

1. ETP; does anyone know anything about building an ETP? What factors influence the outcome? Who is the deciding factor in this situation? (I'm a guard guy)? I've been through AMS/SERE/Water/IFS, and I'm PCS'd in place here at Shep, it seems like there's an awfully lot of money already invested, is that grounds for at least consideration?

2. Maybe some route leading through Whiting Field? I believe they're still flying T-34s and according to a Marine friend of mine, they have AF UPT studs come through there all the time. Not really sure how that would work in my current situation being in the Guard, might have to ask that in the G/R forum.

Any insight, thoughts, considerations, etc - are appreciated.

First off, an FCIA is a Nav applicant so that doesn't really apply (unless I'm totally missing something). You are somewhere between an FCI and FCII. Technically you're not FCII until you have wings, but money has been invested so that has to be a consideration.

Don't do an ETP yet. Let the medical folks tell you whether they'll waiver or not. You should exhaust that option first and then consider ETP

Edited September 7, 2011 by goducks

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Thanks for the clarification GD - and yes I meant FC1

[Wits End]

Thanks for the clarification GD - and yes I meant FC1

Glad you posted..that was my next recommendation.

A little comic relief.....I like that a Duck just gave a Tiger some advice, after Saturday I figured it should be the other way around GEAUX TIGERS!!

Good luck SAINT, fight thru it bud.

[Guest goducks]

Glad you posted..that was my next recommendation.

A little comic relief.....I like that a Duck just gave a Tiger some advice, after Saturday I figured it should be the other way around GEAUX TIGERS!!

Ouch. Painful, but accurate. The Ducks stunk on Saturday.

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Have been pouring over the regs while my back heals from a (so far) successful microdiscectomy. I'm feeling great, up and walking around, and hope to make a 100% recovery.

The regs seem to be sending some mixed signals when it comes to getting back to flying after a herniated disc (HNP). Here's a few of my questions if anyone wants to take a stab at it:

1. After reading through the text of the "Herniated Nucleus Pulposus (HNP) and Spinal Fusion (Nov 08)" it seems like they generally like to approve people who are asymptomatic and get them back to flying. The caveat being that there is no waiver for FCI/IA. What is the real difference between FCI/IA and FCII? There is wording in the waiver guide that flying ejection seat aircraft, even with a MULTILEVEL fusion in the lumbar, is still possible (With a FCII). I didn't even have a fusion....

2. AFI48-123 states

"6.1.1.1. Flying Class I qualifies for selection into MFS, and once MFS is passed,

commencement of undergraduate pilot training (UPT)."

....okay....I've "Commenced" UPT.....is there any text that says one way or another that a student can't finish UPT with a FCII? I understand specifically says it qualifies already RATED officers for flying duty, but it seems odd. If this had happened on AD, would he/she get the chance to goto RPAs? (Which would require a FCIIU)

3. Has anyone heard of an option where I could keep my FCI, only with a non-ejection seat restriction, and then be able to go to UPT at Whiting Field?

Obviously, these are going to be questions I also ask the flight docs here at Shep, but I'd like to get as much information as I can before I see them this Thursday to be ready for what ever they tell me.

Thanks.

Edited September 19, 2011 by ȘÅİňŦ

[Guest scifi_taoist]

I posted a couple years ago in the spinal injuries thread about my (now) former injury. Since that post I have managed to get selected, so I have some questions.

Back in 2008 I was hit by a car while I was out rollerblading. I thought I was okay apart from some bruises, but was having some issues with my back. Long story short, I ended up getting an MRI. This is where it gets slightly fuzzy for me. As far as I know, it was a bulging disc injury (L5-S1). It was treated non-surgically through physical therapy and use of the DRX machine. I was medically released in early 2009 and my doctor said I was 100% recovered with no restrictions. I have looked through my medical records and I can't really discern what exactly the injury was. HNP was mentioned in short hand at one point, but I have no idea if it meant I had it or didn't. I know the difference between it actually being herniated and just having a bulging disc. My understanding was that my injury was simply a bulging disc.

I had to get a waiver to get through MEPS, which I did. Since then I have been very active. I've gone through most of a law enforcement academy, including defensive situations that involved padded assailant drills, take downs, punching, etc. I also run regularly. I've not had any problems with my back at all.

I was recently selected on the 11OT03 board for CSO. We're working on getting me in for DEP and then signed up for the flight physical. Is there any chance at all that I can get through the flight physical without problem? Or at least, can I get a waiver for the FC1a? If I can't pass the physical, what are my options, if any? I'm worried sick about this after working so hard the past 3 years to get selected!

[Wits End]

Thread Revived..........Thread HIJACKED.

[SnapLock]

I'm having some very painful back issues. I've never had an MRI but know that I'll need one. I'm pretty sure that I have a herniated disc in the L4 region and based off of what the interwebs are telling me I am now experiencing sciatica. I've been having the sciatica symptoms for about a week and it's getting worse where now I'm having numbness and tingling down one of my legs. I've pretty much decided it's time to call uncle and go see the flight doc. 

Here are my questions:

Immediate DNIF? I assume so.

Could this be serious?

I fly pointy jets and was wondering if I'll be done after this?

Has anyone experienced this and got back to flying?

 

[RTB]

7 hours ago, SnapLock said:

I'm having some very painful back issues. I've never had an MRI but know that I'll need one. I'm pretty sure that I have a herniated disc in the L4 region and based off of what the interwebs are telling me I am now experiencing sciatica. I've been having the sciatica symptoms for about a week and it's getting worse where now I'm having numbness and tingling down one of my legs. I've pretty much decided it's time to call uncle and go see the flight doc. 

Here are my questions:

Immediate DNIF? I assume so.

Could this be serious?

I fly pointy jets and was wondering if I'll be done after this?

Has anyone experienced this and got back to flying?

 

- Definitely see the flight doc.  ASAP.  Don't risk your long term health! 

- Probably DNIF right away if any numbness and/or tingling from what i've seen in the past.

- Anytime nerves are getting pinched, it's serious IMO!  

- Totally depends on what's happening and how hard it will be to correct.  I've known quite a few pointy nose guys with similar situations who went back to flying fighters.  But also know a couple who were determined to be 'non-ejection seat qualified', although those guys had neck problems, not lower back problems.

- Happened to a classmate of mine in UPT and while he was out for awhile and had to have back surgery, he was back flying 6 months later.

[daynightindicator]

Concur with all above. See flight doc immediately. Expect to be DNIF until 90-120 days post-surgery if you go that route.

Waiver is easy to get (had it for 8ish years now) and shouldn't DQ you from ejection seats/fighters. I'm a B-1 guy, but have flown in Vipers and Hornets since the surgery with no issues.

Doc may suggest PT prior to surgery. I did about a month of it, told them it wasn't working, so they sent me under the knife. Surgery wasn't too bad. Outpatient, about a week of being laid up, back to normal within a month, however the minimum DNIF period was like 90 days per the reg.

[SnapLock]

46 minutes ago, RTB said:

- Definitely see the flight doc.  ASAP.  Don't risk your long term health! 

- Probably DNIF right away if any numbness and/or tingling from what i've seen in the past.

- Anytime nerves are getting pinched, it's serious IMO!  

- Totally depends on what's happening and how hard it will be to correct.  I've known quite a few pointy nose guys with similar situations who went back to flying fighters.  But also know a couple who were determined to be 'non-ejection seat qualified', although those guys had neck problems, not lower back problems.

- Happened to a classmate of mine in UPT and while he was out for awhile and had to have back surgery, he was back flying 6 months later.

 

29 minutes ago, daynightindicator said:

Concur with all above. See flight doc immediately. Expect to be DNIF until 90-120 days post-surgery if you go that route.

Waiver is easy to get (had it for 8ish years now) and shouldn't DQ you from ejection seats/fighters. I'm a B-1 guy, but have flown in Vipers and Hornets since the surgery with no issues.

Doc may suggest PT prior to surgery. I did about a month of it, told them it wasn't working, so they sent me under the knife. Surgery wasn't too bad. Outpatient, about a week of being laid up, back to normal within a month, however the minimum DNIF period was like 90 days per the reg.

Thanks for the words gents. 

[matmacwc]

If your ARC, get a line of duty (LOD) determination.  

[flying_lawnmower]

All,

Approximately 13 months ago I herniated my L4-L5 and L5-S1 from deadlifting at the gym (lol!). I am now in the process of looking for a flying slot through OTS and noticed that "Herniated Nucleus Pulposus (HNP)" is a DQ condition for a FC1/1A and that the "Waiver Potential" is "No"? I didn't get any surgery surgery and the pain just went a way after a few weeks after taking some NSAIDs. 

According to this waiver guide (https://www.wpafb.af.mil/Portals/60/documents/711/usafsam/USAF-Waiver-Guide-190725.pdf), page 366, Table 1, entitled “Waiver potential for HNP treated conservatively, or surgically without fusion or disc replacement”, for a FC1/1A the “Waiver Potential” is “No”, even though the overall wording of the section, including AIMWTS data, the “Waiver Authority” column as well as this thread (and the experience of user Wing Sweep on page 1 of this thread) seems to indicate it *might* be possible to get a waiver.

Notably, Wing Sweep mentioned in 2005 he was P-Cola for UPT which was using T-34's at the time I believe (which don't have ejection seats). Now, all military UPT is done with ejection seat aircraft I think which could dramatically change the waiver landscape for guys like me.

Anyways, policy constantly changes with da gubbament, but I was wondering if there are any guys here who were able to get a waiver for this condition recently during their FC1 process or if I am DQ'd for good.

Good day ya'll! 

[isuguy1234]

So unfortunately, I officially morphed into the L5S1 herniation community as a fighter pilot.  It's been one of those things that's been going on for....well years, but I finally gave in and got an MRI.  So I'm now DNIF, in the Reserves with 17 years TIS(only 12 active tho).  It seems like the option is easily available to get treated, get a waiver, and return to flying fighters.  I feel tho that the risk is high to reanger the disc and be right back in the hurt locker if I continue flying.  Other pilots with this issue, or something similar and expected outcome?  Or how did you handle the situation?  Options I see are to 1) get a waiver and continue flying to a reserve retirement with risk that I'll hurt my back more, 2) see if I can just keep goin at my reserve unit doing things other than flying for 3 years to get a reserve retirement(but I want to be in the AF to fly fighter jets, not to dream up OPRs for people), 3)Medical separation/retirement options as a reservist?

Seems to be several options out there.  I imagine other fighter pilots have gone through this, so looking for opinions/best ways forward.  TIA