Has anyone seen SAF/PC going rogue and denying a package that's been approved by both CCs and AFPC? I thought mine would have been an easy kill as it had concurrence all the way up.


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I know of SAF approving when everyone else said disapprove, so it makes me think they pretty much do whatever they want. (This was pre-VSP days) I'm assuming the bleeding is so bad now it's just a numbers game.


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How long has it been taking you guys for the scroll to go through?

Mine took about 4 months, which seems to be about average among the few dudes I know who've done it recently.

Just now, brabus said:

Mine took about 4 months, which seems to be about average among the few dudes I know who've done it recently.

Thanks. Recruiter told me 2-3 months but I assume the leadership change can't help the timeline. 

...

Edited March 3, 20178 yr by xaarman

Yes as part of the PC vMPF application, you have a section for overall comments as well as the ability to attach PDF docs, etc. Your WG/CC will be able to see all of this, so that would probably be the best. Another option is to talk to your SQ/CC to get his blessing to ask for a 5 min face to face with the WG/CC to explain your situation. Then go through his secretary to schedule the meeting.

Let me know how this goes for you, as I am probably going to be in the same boat after this board.


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One of the requirements for PC is a personal statement MFR saying why you want to PC. The best way to sell the idea in this MFR is talk about how you PC'ing is in the overall best interest of the total force. Sob stories about family, you not getting X opportunity on AD, etc. don't garner many points...from what I've been told. 

Get with the in service recruiter who works your area immediately. They are the one who should be knowledgeable on the process and manage it for you. Also, contact the reserve recruiter immediately to start the scroll process. 

Big pic: get required forms from ISR, fill them out, have sq/cc sign first endorsement on 1288, then go to vmpf and apply for PC, uploading all the required docs. From there it goes back to your sq/cc for recommendation, then to WG/cc, AFPC, and finally SAF. 

 

The 1st endorsement for officers should be the wing CC.

Every time I sent mine through it went to Sq/CC first. Where did you get this info?


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The 1st endorsement for officers should be the wing CC.

That is correct. BUT I will tell you that I know many O's who only get Sq/CC for the first Endorsement and have no issues. The PSD guide from Jan 2016 has the references for the source docs. PM me if you need more info.

If you choose to get your WG/CC as the first endorsement, plan an extra few weeks to get the paperwork processed.

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Just goes to show how well thought out the whole PC program is. I think it should just go straight to AFPC and SAF since they do whatever they want anyways.


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Just goes to show how well thought out the whole PC program is. I think it should just go straight to AFPC and SAF since they do whatever they want anyways.


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I glanced at the AFPC Functional Transmittal Sheet as routed in vMPF. Number of officers assigned to unit was overstated by 40%. Can't even imagine where they get their numbers from.


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Where does it say 1st endorsement is wg/cc on the 1288? My sq/cc signed mine (per direction from the recruiter) and my paperwork now sits at SAF, so obviously sq/cc is acceptable. The other 4 guys I know in the recent past also went the sq/cc direction. Maybe it doesn't matter. 

Where does it say 1st endorsement is wg/cc on the 1288? My sq/cc signed mine (per direction from the recruiter) and my paperwork now sits at SAF, so obviously sq/cc is acceptable. The other 4 guys I know in the recent past also went the sq/cc direction. Maybe it doesn't matter. 

I hear you. I also had my Sq/CC sign as my first endorsement, but because I didn't want to deal with the WG/CC and also because no one seems to care. I know of many other who didn't get WG/CC. But, if you really want to know:

Look at the PSD guide available on MyPers. That is the main guide AFPC and everyone uses for reference. The actual regulation is AFI 36-3205. Look at para 1.4.6

I also have a presentation AFPC gave over DCO a few months ago if anyone missed it and is interested. PM me for more details.

I'm not a reg nazi or anything, but I like to be informed so I know how to properly make the rules work in my favor.

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Totally get it...sounds like the standard nobody actually knows their own regs, so stuff like this isn't caught/people don't care. Though I am glad I didn't have to burn time trying to get the wg/cc sig, just to have the whole thing show up in his in container a week later froman mypers. 

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Edited March 3, 20178 yr by xaarman

1 hour ago, xaarman said:

"However, after meeting with recruiters, I ran into some unexpected leadership stalling and a general lack of enthusiastic support I had at the beginning. SQ/CC wants to submit an eSSS package through the OG/CC to the WG/CC,"

"Pretty much everyone (including the WG/CC Execs) has the same response: "I want to PC." "How much time is left on your ADSC?" "2 years bu...." "It will get denied, don't even try." I then have to explain the above narrative to about 5 different people, it's incredibly frustrating."

Xaarman,

These were a bunch of different issues I ran into. Leadership said the same stuff back to me when talking about my chances (nav leaving AFSOC).  Make sure you have a letter of hire from the guard unit, a solid letter to the board and all your paperwork in line. If you have that good to go then it's just up to the SAF. Follow the PSC Guidance I posted on an earlier one and you should be set. 

Good stuff happens sometimes. 

 

In regards to the first endorsement thing, I think mine had the SQ/CC as the first endorsement, then when it was submitted it went straight to the WG/CC (which is lucky because the OG/CC wanted his input, which was to deny). I had to redo the 1288 roughy 10 times because the different people wanted different sigs on the 1st endorsement. You would think sending the guidance out would help but it seems like it just confuses everyone more. Standard. 

15 hours ago, MountainHerc said:

In regards to the first endorsement thing, I think mine had the SQ/CC as the first endorsement, then when it was submitted it went straight to the WG/CC (which is lucky because the OG/CC wanted his input, which was to deny). I had to redo the 1288 roughy 10 times because the different people wanted different sigs on the 1st endorsement. You would think sending the guidance out would help but it seems like it just confuses everyone more. Standard. 

Does it actually matter if a CC at any level denies it?  I thought the final decision was at HAFPC regardless of what our CCs say. 

The only one that matters is SAF/PC. I had one package with all recommend approves that got denied, one where AFPC recommend deny and wing recommended approve and it was denied. This past one was approved on all levels and SAF finally listened to AFPC.

22 minutes ago, MountainHerc said:

The only one that matters is SAF/PC. I had one package with all recommend approves that got denied, one where AFPC recommend deny and wing recommended approve and it was denied. This past one was approved on all levels and SAF finally listened to AFPC.

What was the amount of time off you were asking for in each of those iterations?

3 years Off Nav: denied

2.5 years off Nav: denied

1.5 years off Retrain to new airframe/6months off Nav: approved

13 hours ago, MountainHerc said:

3 years Off Nav: denied

2.5 years off Nav: denied

1.5 years off Retrain to new airframe/6months off Nav: approved

Congrats on the pardon and thanks for clearing that up for me. Seriously still figuring the PC process out. 

PC Approved. 13 months off TA ADSC. Package was at SAF/PC for just over 5 weeks. Non-rated ops to Guard ALO


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Congrats Bluedevil