USAF vs USMC/Marine Aviation

[Guest Mumphy24]

I've come to a time in my life where I have to decide what I want to do for myself and my girlfriend. I'm wanting to apply for Marine PLC air program, but I realize that Marine Pilots do get deployed on ships, and they don't have as many fixed winged aircraft.

I've never even considered the Guard til now. Not that I was being close minded, I just always thought the Marines was the place for me. I like the idea of being able to fly, which is what I want to do, and being home with my wife. She has a career and I have to appreciate that. I'm not married. I've been with this girl for almost four years, and I want what is best for the both of us. While I can't give up my dream of flying for her, I can look into other options (the Guard) and see what I can do.

Now, I'm here to ask you some questions. I live in Nashville TN, and there is a guard unit right here. They fly the -130's which is what I want to fly because of the ME time. I want to later move onto to a career as an airline pilot. How would I go about applying for a slot at the guard unit in Nashville? Would I go to AMS after I graduate college? I'm getting my degree in Management Information Systems, and I am going to get PRK. I don't have a PPL. What are my honest chances of getting a guard slot with the credentials?

I just need some advice from you guys. Should I stay with the Marine route, and go active duty Marine pilot, or should I take a stab at applying for the Guard slot, and doing that?

How much flying time does a heavy pilot get per month? What's the maximum flying one can do per month? Once I get accepted to a certain guard unit, I can stay there for my whole service time, right? How long is the service committment for guard pilots?

I know these are a lot of questions, but I want to fly. It's my passion and my dream. It's appealing to see that the Guard allows you to do what I want to do, and stay in the same area. Please help. Thanks to all in advance.

[HerkDerka]

Here's my advice:

Go the route that you want. When it comes to flying, you have to look out for Number 1 first. Believe me, you may not think it, but your girlfriend will usually follow you. I have an extremley career oriented fiancee and she put it all on hold to stay with me after college.

Just my opinion.

PD

[ 21 December 2003, 14:57: Message edited by: PegDriver24 ]

[Guest pilotkppsg]

Holler at MSGT Epps in Nashville w/ the 118th AW. They'll say that they hire in-house only, but we had an instructor I work with get a slot out there (probably b/c he knew the chief pilot, but who knows on those boards?). Are you in school at TSU, MTSU, Vandy or WKU?

[Guest Mumphy24]

I'm in school at Tennessee Tech University. What do you mean by hiring "in-house only."? Should I call the MSGT and see what he thinks about my chances. Thanks for the replies.

Anyone else want to chime in?

[Guest Mumphy24]

Anyone else?

[Guest wbillups]

You may want to review one of my previous post about being a Marine. Trust me there is a whole oher world besides being a pilot you must contend with. And if you just want to fly I suggest Guard. I only say this because I am a Active duty Marine E-6/SSgt in a the deploying FMF (Fleet Marine Force) and flying is the least of these guys responsibilities. :confused:

Jarhead-17

[Guest Mumphy24]

Thanks, Jarhead. If I were to fly for the AF, I know that my chances of getting fixed wing are tremendously higher. Since I'm a junior in college, I guess I would have to apply for OTS, right? I would go to that after I graduate? Where do active duty AF students do UPT at? One more ?, when you're a pilot in the AF, is that what you do the whole time you're in? I know that Navy and Marines have a second tour that is usually non flying?

What about the ANG route? Would I have to OTS?

Where to ANG students go to UPT? If I were to get selected for an ANG unit, I would go to UPT (wherever it is), and then come back to that base and learn to fly that aircraft? How long is the service comittment for ANG? How many hours per month do ANG pilots get (heavies)?

[ 22 December 2003, 14:04: Message edited by: Mumphy24 ]

[HerkDerka]

I'll answer your active AF questions.

For UPT, regardless of whether you are active, reserve, or guard, you'll go to SUPT at Vance, Laughlin, or Columbus. There is also a chance that you might go train with the Navy at Whiting or maybe go to ENJJPT.

Regarding flying in the Air Force. As a young officer you tend to do alot more flying than the older guys. However, if you ever want to make rank, you will have to do a staff tour eventually. The Navy and Marines generally have more non-flying tours than Air Force guys do. As an AF pilot, your job is to fly airplanes, but you also have a squadron job (pubs officer, scheduling, etc etc. Depending on the job you have, it might take away some of your flying time.

PD

[Guest Hoser]

Moody AFB in Valdosta Georgia is also a starting point for UPT (they have T-6's). The downside currently is that they do not have any T-1's or T-38's (they have IFF T-38's, not UPT), so after your 6 months in Phase II, you would have to PCS to Columbus, Laughling or Vance to do your Phase III training. If you fly T-38's in UPT, you would most likely TDY back to Moody for 2 months for IFF, then PCS to your FTU base. Lots of moving for my blood.

Hoser

[ 22 December 2003, 15:34: Message edited by: Hoser ]

[Guest Mumphy24]

Alright, thanks for the heads up on where UPT is held. I just 'requested information' off of the air force website. I do have a few questions. First, the acronyms. TDY? IFF? PCS? I know that PCS has to do with moving.

How many phases are there of SUPT? I've heard great things about the T-37 Tweet. Where are they training in it at? I don't think I want to do all that moving like you said, so I guess my options would be Vance, Laughlin, or Columbus. Do you get to pick which base you want to do SUPT at?

There's probably more to come, but that's all I can think of right now. Thanks for the replies.

[HerkDerka]

TDY= Temporary Duty

IFF= Intro to Fighter Fundamentals

PCS= Permanent Change of Station

There are three phases just like all AF UPT. Ground School, Primary, Advanced. Right now, Columbus and Laughlin are having half of each class fly Tweets and the other half Texans. Vance and Sheppard are still using all Tweets, but will switch soon. For base selection, you get to put in a dream sheet, but it's pretty much just to make you feel like you have a say.

PD

[Guest Hoser]

Just a little adding and correcting on PD's post:

A TDY is a move less than 180 days. PCS is a move of 180 days or greater.

As for his information about which bases have the T-6, he is a little wrong. The following discussion leaves out Sheppard (ENJJPT) because the whole NATO thing is a different ballgame.

Just a little note because I can see this question arising in the future, but the T-38A is the old steam driven model, and the T-38C is a glass cockpit modification.

Moody has T-6's for Phase II, nothing for Phase III, and the T-38C for IFF.

Columbus has the T-37 for Phase II (not sure where PegDriver got his T-6info from) and the T-38C for Phase III. Columbus will be the last base to get the T-6, following Laughlin and Vance.

Laughlin, if not done converting from T-37's to T-6's as this post is written, should be done in the near future. They have the T-38A, and will get the T-38C after Columbus (Done) and Vance (in progress).

That leaves Vance. If you have not been confused by my words above, you would be able to figure out that Vance currently has the T-37, but will start getting their IP's qual'ed in the T-6 as soon as Laughlin is done, and they should be approx 50% done with there T-38 A to C conversion.

Sheppard is now back in the mix. Not sure about the validity of my next statement, so I will throw a *bullshit* disclaimer on it, but when I last left Columbus as a FAIP, the rumor was that Sheppard had not decided whether they were going to switch from the T-37 to the T-6. This was based on the fact they were having a hard time convincing the European countries that send their student pilots to Sheppard to fork up the extra money for new airplanes, etc. I do know that Sheppard does still run an IFF course, but they are using the T-38A model.

Good luck and keep the questions coming (STS).

Hoser

[ 22 December 2003, 19:45: Message edited by: Hoser ]

[HerkDerka]

Whoops, my bad. I though that Columbus already had some Texans and Vance was going to be the last.

Some Laughlin people told me that the T-6 conversion should be done this summer.

PD

[Guest Mumphy24]

Alright, thanks for clearing that all up for me.

Now for my chances... I'm wanting to fly AF because I know that my chances of getting fixed wing out of flight school are much greater. I'm a junior in college, and my degree is somewhat technical (MIS). I don't have a PPL (could get one), and I need to get PRK. Honestly, what are my chances of getting selected to the OTS board?

I'm still confused about the ANG. Would I go to OTS then UPT? Do ANG officers have to go to OTS or is there something similar?

You might be confused whether I want to go active duty AF or ANG. Basically, I just need to find out which route gives me the most flying time. Would 10 years of AD AF give me more flight time, or __ years in the ANG give me more? How many years can one be in the ANG?

Thanks, and I apoligize for the ignorance. I just don't know much of anything about AF aviation. I'm going to call the local recruiter tom. What are some things that I should ask him? God Bless.

[ 22 December 2003, 23:54: Message edited by: Mumphy24 ]

[Guest rottin1]

Not to be harsh or to downgrade your girlfriends position in your life but NEVER make a decision based on your significant other (Unless its a spouse). Too many people have done that only to regret it down the road when they are 2 or more girlfriends later. Many have taken them to UPT only to find their girlfrind with someone else. Others have learned that UPT demands time. Unfortunately, this was the same time the girlfriend demanded. Conflict. Breakup. Period. Base your decisions on you. If she wants to go great, if she wants to stay, see ya in a year. Bottom line, if its meant to be then it will be. Nuff said.

[Guest BigIronDriver]

Originally posted by Mumphy24:

I've come to a time in my life where I have to decide what I want to do for myself and my girlfriend. I'm wanting to apply for Marine PLC air program, but I realize that Marine Pilots do get deployed on ships, and they don't have as many fixed winged aircraft.

I've never even considered the Guard til now. Not that I was being close minded, I just always thought the Marines was the place for me. I like the idea of being able to fly, which is what I want to do, and being home with my wife. She has a career and I have to appreciate that. I'm not married. I've been with this girl for almost four years, and I want what is best for the both of us. While I can't give up my dream of flying for her, I can look into other options (the Guard) and see what I can do.

Now, I'm here to ask you some questions. I live in Nashville TN, and there is a guard unit right here. They fly the -130's which is what I want to fly because of the ME time. I want to later move onto to a career as an airline pilot. How would I go about applying for a slot at the guard unit in Nashville? Would I go to AMS after I graduate college? I'm getting my degree in Management Information Systems, and I am going to get PRK. I don't have a PPL. What are my honest chances of getting a guard slot with the credentials?

I just need some advice from you guys. Should I stay with the Marine route, and go active duty Marine pilot, or should I take a stab at applying for the Guard slot, and doing that?

How much flying time does a heavy pilot get per month? What's the maximum flying one can do per month? Once I get accepted to a certain guard unit, I can stay there for my whole service time, right? How long is the service committment for guard pilots?

I know these are a lot of questions, but I want to fly. It's my passion and my dream. It's appealing to see that the Guard allows you to do what I want to do, and stay in the same area. Please help. Thanks to all in advance.

Mumphy24,

I read your questions with interest and being somewhat new to this site myself, I thought I would give it a whirl and try to answer some of your questions. First, I am a Marine CH-53E pilot and I have been in the Marines for over 7 years now and I have been flying for nearly six years. I will tell you that the most important thing is to follow your dreams or else you will regret it someday! If your girlfriend truly cares about you and it was meant to be, she will follow you. Now, I can not answer Air Force questions for you but I can try and give you some direction as to what it means to be a Marine Pilot...hopefully this will help you out in your decision. First, it is true that if you pass the Navy/Marine Aviation Test and your initial flight physical, the Marines will give you a guaranteed flight slot...but remember, you will still have to make it through flight school! Before you go to flight school as a Marine, you are going to go to 10 to 12 weeks of Officer Candidate Scool (depending on which program you do) and then another 6 months of Infantry training! So you have to want to be a Marine just as much as you want to be a pilot or else you might lose interest in the whole program! As a pilot, you will probably not fly as much as the other services and yes, you might end up on a ship for extended periods. You also might do a "ground tour" at the end of your first flying stint and yes, we have many collateral duties that often don't involve flying. Also, we fly a lot of helo's so be prepared for needs of the Marine Corps and timing to be a big factor in what you select. If you want a challenge and you don't care what you fly as much as some people do, then consider it...otherwise think long and hard about the Guard! I hope this helps you out...Fly Low and Slow...BigIronDriver

[Guest Harabek]

I know this forum is mainly for USAF pilots, canidates and wanna bes... but I have been doing some soul searching for a while and I need some help.

I have been recently discharged from the USAF (honorably discharged) and I am attending University of Norther CO. I plan on doing college ROTC there and going through my commission and flight training through the USAF. But I have also found remember talking to other AF pilots on the flightline, and other officers who are forced to paper push. The Marine Corps will guarantee a pilot slot for me in their corps... the AF does not. I do not want to take a chance with the AF (ie. doing well with test scores and a good gpa and end up being a maintenance officer) I prefer the AF, and so does my father (ex-USMC).

My question are: is there anyone with any history flying for the USMC or Navy that I could speak to? Does anyone know any other forums or sites I can try and look at? What are the chances of guaranteeing a pilot slot in the AF?

Sorry for the inconvenience...and I kno this is mostly an AF website and forums..but thanx for any help.

[Guest grsckoro]

The only chance of getting a guarentee pilot slot is applying through OTS (which is getting tougher and tougher) or getting a slot through the Reserves. ROTC will not do it for you.

As for USMC flying, I have several buddies who are currently in the program. The USMC and Navy's programs are almost identical. Talk to the recruiters, take the test, pass the test, take your medical, and most likely you will be guarenteed a flight slot. The Navy will also pay you around 1800.00 a month for your last two years in college too.

One of my buddies is still in college (sr yr) and has already attended OCS and is attending the 6 month Marine program this fall before flight training. My other buddy graduated from the Naval Acad. and is now starting F/A-18 school. (Drop rate for 18's in the USMC is high now due to the excess older 18's and alot of marine studs want helo's.

There's a quick rundown, both of them love the program so far, but as your dad has probably told you, your second job in the marines is a pilot, your first job is just being a marine. They can pull you off the flight line anytime to lead a plattoon.

Good luck !

[Guest flecth033]

check out www.airwarriors.com and talk to those dudes

[Guest Harabek]

Thanks for the advice TUG and the forum link flyguy. I was wondering, what about the JSF's coming out? The F-35's? And I thought the F-22 recieved a new designator (F/A) which means the Navy would be getting these planes as well.

Thanx for your help

[Guest kwarner04]

Just to throw my two cents in there, I've had a little experience with the Marine Guaranteed Pilot program.

When I was in ROTC, the marine recruiters would always come talk to us Air Force guys about PLC (I think that's what they call it) program and tell us how that he could promise me a seat in flight school, unlike what I was getting through the Air Force.

However, the Marine pilot lifestyle is quite different than the Air Force lifestyle. (I only know about this, cause some guys at my school took up the offer and I still keep in contact with them.) I think the biggest thing to consider is do you want to be a marine, not a pilot, but a marine for 6, 8, 10 yrs or whatever the committment is. Cause just like TUG said, you're a marine first and if they need you storming beaches, then that's what you're gonna do even if you can fly a plane.

Also, I'd really like to start a family when I get a few years into the Air Force, and from what I've heard, the AF is much better when it comes to that sort of thing.

But if you don't care about anything else except flying, then the marines might be a good fit for you. Like I mentioned before, this is all from people I know that have gone through the program, not myself, so I don't claim to be an expert. Just throwing some things out there you might want to consider. But definately check out airwarriors.com and see what people have got to say over there.

If you're really interested and can't find alot of info, PM me and I'll give you some contact info of the guys I know going through the marine program.

Good Luck!

[Guest Harabek]

Yeah thanks for the advice, but I don't plan on starting a family. It doesn't bother me too much that I may be deployed for 9-12 months at a time...but I want to make sure that I am used to fly planes. I'm not as devot flying Helos, and ultimately I am going for the F/A-18. I understand that I am a Marine first, and I accept that, I embrace that, and I would be honored. But I'm a pilot... I gotta be in the air. I have some bad issues with the Air Force, and I will go the AF route if I have to...

But that guaranteed pilot thing is "fo reals?"

And thanx I did register at airwarriors.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I would rather be a pilot in the USAF but I would definitely take a promise from the Marines if the USAF didn't deliver.

[Guest KillYourself]

It's not that hard to get a pilot slot through ROTC.

If you're not a idiot, alcoholic, or total douche bag you should be ok.

[Gravedigger]

Originally posted by Harabek:

And I thought the F-22 recieved a new designator (F/A) which means the Navy would be getting these planes as well.

The "A" stands for attack, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Navy. The Navy/Marines now have the kickass Super Hornets, and maybe the F-35 someday, but never will they own the mighty Raptor.