Military vs civilian flying lifestyles

[Guest jtpilot8]

Okay...i apologize if someone is about to bust out the search function search function search function remark, but i did try and was unsuccessful. This question is one that i have never gotten an answer on because no one seems to know both sides of the story. I thought this would be good place to throw it out. What are the differences between life and lifestyle in a civilian aviation career and a military aviation career. Major points i am looking for include FINANCIAL (primary), family life, professional opportunities near the end of careers, and any other major pros and cons. In other words, if i were to ask you to tell me why i should spend the rest of my life in the civilian side of aviation or the military side of aviation, what would you say??? I know most pilots here are military but i would really appreciate unbiased opinions. Thanks so much!!!!

[Mambo]

Financial: Civilian - mucho cash!

Military - not so much

Family life: Civilian - Fly 1 week a month, stay at home rest of time

Military - Fly to exotic places like Iraq/Afghanistan/UAE for 3 months at a time...family life - not so much

Prof Opportunities: Civilian - fly till you retire

Military - get out and get job with airlines

Main difference - You don't get shot at in civilian aircraft, unless you're flying in exotic places (see above!)

[Guest jtpilot8]

maybe i should have been more specific. I obviously know how much mil. pay is. I also know that you can start out very low in the airlines (18-23k/year for regionals). What i want to know is how fast in the civilian world you move up and what you can move up to (dollar wise). I want to know if i am a full bird in the af at 20 years, will i be making comparable money (if not what kind of money would i be making). When it comes to family life, are airline pilots really home three weeks a month? Is the only thing a pilot can retire to the airlines? Are there no other type of prof. opportunities? Anyway, i hope that breaks my question down a little more. Thanks for all your help!!!

[Guest SnakeT38]

All hard to say right now.

In the civvy world IT ALL depends on luck and timing...........pay at many "legacy" carriers has been drastically cut and retirements gutted.

SWA, FedEx, UPS, CAL, Air Tran, JBlue are all hiring, you need to check their pay scales and the age of each airlines work force. Would you be in the front, middle, end of a hiring cycle.

Military offers many of the same uncertainties. When money is tight and there are NO WARS, flying jobs and time are hard to come by. Pay is going

up in the military but I see an end to pilot bonus plan very soon, (retention very high, need will go down).

The one sector that gives you A CHOICE is the Guard and Reserve, you can work fulltime in many units and WAIT for airline environment to change.

You can also STAY fulltime and enjoy many of the same opportunities the AD has. The fulltime ANG/USAFR job also allows you to work to an older age and still fly airplanes. AD still has to get another job when they retire 42-47 years of age.

I WOULD NOT, enter the regional jet community and bet on a "good job", the skills learned in the military ARE FAR BETTER THAN ANY the "small airplane" community in the civilian world can provide.

[otsap]

I hope you're aware that whoever tells you in the civvy world you "get paid awesome and work 1 week a month" is either being sarcastic or is talking about the 1970's. The only people that applies to are airline pilots who have been pilots for roughly 30-35 years. I'm told a regional FO starts at 18K/yr, and is gone about 3 days a week, and on call for another 2. You can expect to actually get called about 50 percent of the time while on call.

This is a regional airline of course, but "the majors" minimum requirements are typically, and you can check their websites, 1000+ hrs flying a jet. So where do you get jet time? Military, or a regional airline. But, at the regional airline, you'd start on a twin prop as a co-pilot(18K/yr). At about 3-4 years, you may become captain of the twin prop(32K/yr). 3-4 years after that, you have the option of transferring to a jet(46K/yr).

You're looking at 6-8 years before you're riding a jet engine. Once you log your time and get hired by a 'major', you'd have to find their pay scales cause I don't know.

In the AF, your first year with base pay, specialty pay, BAH, BAS, etc., factoring in the tax advantage you'll get around 48K. 3-4 yrs in you'll be getting around 66K. 3-4 yrs after that you're getting around 88K and looking at O-4 soon. 10 yr commitment starts after UPT so it's actually about a 11.5 yr commitment. When you get out, you'll have the credentials to apply to the airlines.

Pay: Advantage-military (in the first 10 yrs.)

Family life: Advantage-civilian (you might be gone a few days, but you always go "home")

Prof. Opportunity: About-equal (however, if I'm an employer looking at two people, one with 10 yrs civilian, one with 10 yrs military, I'm going with the prior military on leadership exp. alone)

[ 24. June 2005, 20:11: Message edited by: otsap ]

[Vetter]

48K a year as a 2nd LT...bullsh*t!

[Techsan]

Originally posted by Vetter:

48K a year as a 2nd LT...bullsh*t!

48K (2Lt) sounds about right...if you figure in the cost of health insurance. It MIGHT be a little high, but close.

[Guest tentoad]

Wanna get rich?

Stay out of aviation.

Wanna have fun?

Get into aviation.

Gone are the days of the rich airline pilot, this "correction" in the industry is just the begining.

Tentoad

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by tentoad:

Wanna get rich?

Stay out of aviation.

Wanna have fun?

Get into aviation.

Gone are the days of the rich airline pilot, this "correction" in the industry is just the begining.

Tentoad

May 10th United has a hearing on their pensions,

if things go bad for the employees I think you might see the "balloon" go up.

[pcola]

Originally posted by Vetter:

48K a year as a 2nd LT...bullsh*t!

If you have prior service time, 48K is about right for 2LT. Base pay for O-1 over 3 is ~$3000 + ~$180 BAS + ~$125 flight pay + ~$700 BAH = $4000/mo = $48K/year.

[Guest TheBobGoat]

48K a year is no problem for a 2lt under 2 yrs

depends on your job

there are A1C's that make more than some 2lt's

base pay 2300

bah 1100

bas 180

flight pay 125

combat pay 225

per diem 1000

and this is all tax free

that is 4900 take home right there

its not inpossible (EDIT: even with all that money i cant spell), just depends on your job

[ 07. May 2005, 12:17: Message edited by: TheBobGoat ]

[Guest rumblefish_2]

I know AGR fighter jobs are pretty difficult to get these days, but how difficult is it to get an AGR job in AETC or heavies? Do you have to be an AC to get one? I know most fighter units require you to at least be an IP, but I know there are exceptions. Just curious.

[JS]

Originally posted by pcola stud:

If you have prior service time, 48K is about right for 2LT. Base pay for O-1 over 3 is ~$3000 + ~$180 BAS + ~$125 flight pay + ~$700 BAH = $4000/mo = $48K/year.

[Guest comanche]

First off if you look at Fedex or Delta, they want 1200 hours of turbine OR turbojet time. So you can make captain on a twin turbine and apply after you get that time. Not sure if you will get hired or not, but you can apply.

Second you can make more then that as a Captain on a Jet, here is a pay scale for most airlines by the 10 year mark you should make about 62K, that is if you don't go to FedEx or something like that first.

http://www.willflyforfood.cc/Payscales/PayScales.htm

I looked at SkyWest, not the highest paid regional and a first year captain would make 50K plus benefits. With 401K matching, and profit sharing you can make more. It will take about 2 years to make jet captain if you start in the jet as a FO. The 50K is guaranteed pay at 75 hours a month. If you fly more then that you will make more. If you sit hot reserves you will make more. If you go to a different domicile because they need pilots you will make more, also you get your per diem.

With that being said, don't do it for the money! Do it because you want to fly for the mil or civil. Either way you will make enough to live on, maybe not be rich but you will be having fun.

Good luck

[ 07. May 2005, 16:14: Message edited by: comanche ]

[ellsworb]

from April-Dec last year, my W-2 was just shy of 45K. That was with 3 months as a SSgt at OTS then 2LT pay. But also includes all the extra cash from moving, DITY, and my TDY to Brooks. I went straight to PCola from OTS for UPT. It's easily done. At Vance now, didn't even get the CHOICE to live in the dorms. They had the hardship letter waiting for me.

[pcola]

JS, your funny math is omitting a few key variables. You didn't have to pay rent, utilities, retirement, or insurance out of your 24K/year. That adds at least 1000/month, and that is before taxes. So now were at 36K/year comparable civilian pay, BEFORE taxes. Add roughly 20% to that and your 24K take-home equals roughly 43K equivalent pretax civilian salary.

[Zippy]

Originally posted by lucky21:

What are the differences between life and lifestyle in a civilian aviation career and a military aviation career. Major points i am looking for include FINANCIAL (primary), family life, professional opportunities near the end of careers, and any other major pros and cons. In other words, if i were to ask you to tell me why i should spend the rest of my life in the civilian side of aviation or the military side of aviation, what would you say??? I know most pilots here are military but i would really appreciate unbiased opinions. Thanks so much!!!!

Lucky,

If your primary motivation is financial then google 2005 military pay chart, aviation career incentive pay etc., and take a look around for yourself (the following links give a pretty good overview of all military pay- and explinations).

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/fy2005paych...a/paycharts.htm

http://www.military.com/Resources/Resource...4,30821,00.html

I've know a lot of military aviators (Pilots, Navs, WSOs etc) who never got rich by being in the military (at least until they retired and made big $$$ on the outside to supliment their retirement)- but they were always pretty comfortable.

From what limited exposure to the private sector side of aviation, those guys/girls are like starving artists- struggling to come up with enough hours at shitty pay as a CFI to hopefully qualify for the regionals only for the same cycle repeats itself again and again (at least from what I understand). But, they love it anyways...

Family life is going to be tough sometimes either way:In the civilian world, the stress long days scrounging for hrs to make the next big league and $ to pay your bills (seems like the era of cushy airline jobs is over), and the stress of finding a new flying job when the one you have suddenly goes away.

Military- family life will not be tough so much because of the $$$, but because of the long hrs at you put in at the squadron, the workups and the deployments (which can be very long, or very often- or both, depending on whats going on in the world).

Professional Oppertunities- Civilian side as i understand it, you fly then don't (and maybe if your lucky you'll have some 401k plan to show for it when you retire). Military side, you learn to lead/manage people (always a good skill if you try to get a non-aviation job), can go to grad school and even have uncle sam pickup the tab (or use you G.I. Bill), you can slide into a government or DOD contractor job after you retire and pretty much double your income, you can network with other military guys who have sweet hookups on the outside and make sure you're all set for when you get out. (Sorry, i can't get more specific then that because I'm not all that sure about Air Force career paths)

Aditional Pros

#1 pro above all- You get to serve your country.

- you fly some of the most advanced aircraft in the world.

-You get to travel and can be stationed overseas too.

-You get to wear a flight suit to work

-If you die, you're family will have some survivor benifits.

-You can move around to different places

-You have the potential to make a difference...

-You don't have to spend the rest of your life doing it, and get a good retirement out of it

Additional Cons,

-Bullets don't discriminate

-Sometimes you have to move, and have to travel when you don't want to.

-You may miss many birthdays, holidays and other special occasions with the people you love.

-You may not come home one day. (Military aviation is hazardous even when not getting shot at.)

If money is your primary motivation in life then don't join the military- you can potentially make far more out in the civilian world for doing a lot less.

If you need someone to tell you why you SHOULD become a military aviatior then maybe you shouldn't. Anybody can fly on the civilian side, Not everybody can be a military aviator, and it's not right for everyone. You need to find the answer to that question inside of yourself.

[ 08. May 2005, 18:45: Message edited by: Zippy ]

[Guest Milamber]

I'd try this one:

Compensation Calculator

Example Annual salary (without any incentives like Flight Pay, off base)

CONUS Average BAH for single O-1: $40,663.08

CONUS Average BAH for single O-2: $51,512.28

CONUS Average BAH for single O-3: $66,578.28

CONUS Average BAH for Married O-1: $42,907.08

CONUS Average BAH for Married O-2: $53,564.28

CONUS Average BAH for Married O-3: $68,978.28

Not exactly a fortune, but respectable. You shouldn't be doing it for the money- but you should be able to feed your family.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by Milamber:

I'd try this one:

Compensation Calculator

Example Annual salary (without any incentives like Flight Pay, off base)

CONUS Average BAH for single O-1: $40,663.08

CONUS Average BAH for single O-2: $51,512.28

CONUS Average BAH for single O-3: $66,578.28

CONUS Average BAH for Married O-1: $42,907.08

CONUS Average BAH for Married O-2: $53,564.28

CONUS Average BAH for Married O-3: $68,978.28

Not exactly a fortune, but respectable. You shouldn't be doing it for the money- but you should be able to feed your family.

Don't let "them" brainwash you..........you DESERVE to feed your family "good" food, live

in NICE houses, and kids go to schools that give

them a chance at a good future. Trust me, having

left AD in 1986 I have discovered there IS A WHOLE LOT GOING ON in this world OUTSIDE flying airliners that generates a HUGE income......I have always thought the military "conditions" (read brainwash) their people into believing that where they live and what they earn is acceptable.

I'm not saying they are 100% wrong, BUT keep both eyes open in the "big scheme", in the end it's ALL ABOUT you and YOUR FAMILY........

[Guest Milamber]

I don't think any amount would be enough to adequately compensate us for what we put on the line (especially those who paid the ultimate price- ask their families how much they're getting).

Again, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT FOR THE MONEY!!!

But, the point is that $35-45,000 is decent for a recent college graduate. and a 60%+ raise in four years is nothing to sneeze at. If you make O-5, at 20 you'll be making right at six figures. It's more than enough to live on. No, you won't live like a king- but it's enough for "good" food, and a NICE house.

Civilian pay is great- but you can't say the military doesn't pay enough to live if you're an O. The enlisted side is another story, those guys do a lot for very little. Here's to the guys behind the scenes that are often forgotten here, and everywhere else.