Army Aviation and service information

[Guest Jer105]

The Army does not have many fixed wing aircraft, about 120 VIP C-12s, not sure how many RC-12s, We have some Citations, and about 50 C-23s, all in the guard. The RC-12s will be replaced pretty soon by CRJs, not sure of the new Army number. They are also talking about C-27s to take off the burden from some of the CH-47s, but who knows if that will happen. If it does most will be Guard.

Most of the C-12s are in the Guard flying for OSACOM and JOSAC. Active duty fixed wing guys are mostly RC-12 guys flying circles. Some VIP units though. Not sure how many slots there are for them, we had about 12 in my class and a new class starts once a month at Flight Safety in Dothan, AL.

Most of the RC-12 slots are in Ft. Hood, Savannah, GA, Korea, or now Iraq, Afganistan. Could be more not for sure. Almost all the states have one C-12 as part of an OSACOM detachment.

I fly a C-12 for the guard in one of the OSACOM Detachments. I think it's one of the better jobs out there. We don't have to sit and wait much for people, just haul them and go to the next mission. Long days, 4-10 hour flights, 10-14 hour days, but you get to go all over. about half the flights are ours (for the state) the other are for JOSAC flying anybody and everyboody, from GS-7 civilians, to 3 stars, admirals, Govenors, etc.

Hope it helps

[Guest RookiePilot]

As I know this is an almost exclusively AF web-board, and I don't really say much as I try to keep my mouth shut, 'cause I am a rookie. But I'd like to know if anyone has any advice or info on the Army flight equip. I know they have their Tac. stuff like the Apache, and the like, but what about the combi stuff like the Blackhawk. Or even the fixed wing A/C I know they have the C-12, and a few UC-35's, are these hard to get into. Also if I'm an Officer, how much would I fly, I got my AFOQT scores and they are comp. but maybe not as much as I'd like. Just trying to get as much info, as I can, and to look at all the services. Thanks in advance, and have a great evening!!!!!!!

[Guest Wxpunk]

Rookie,

I see you've graduated from exclamation points "F14Pilot!!" to question marks "Army Pilots??." Very impressive. Maybe you could work on spelling out your words so that the rest of us don't have to concentrate while reading your posts.

Anyhow, my dad was a CW4 during Vietnam and active for six years afterwards as an IP at Rucker. He flew all eight of those years and every year thereafter (22 total years including Reserve).

Flip side: A good friend of his started flying as a 2nd Lieutenant, he stopped flying something like three years later.

Thanks, chief, and have a nice day!

----------------

Wxpunk

[ 03. May 2005, 15:01: Message edited by: Wxpunk ]

[hawkdriver29]

Rookie,

What type of info on flight equip are you looking for? Army has 4 helicopters, AH-64 (attack) OH-58D (scout) CH-47 (lift) and the UH-60 (lift, air assault, medevac, etc). As far as fixed wing, there's the C-12 and the UC-35. Guard and reserves fly some other types of fixed wing but I'm not sure what they are. Fixed wing slots are HIGHLY competitive, and 99.9999% of all aviators will start with helicopters and have to apply for a fixed wing slot.

As far as flight time, it depends on what type of officer you become. If you go Warrant you will spend most of your career with a flight company. At some point you will track as either an IP, Maint. Test Pilot, Safety Officer, or TacOps Officer. The down side, as a CW4 IP with thousands of hours you will be outranked by a 2LT nugget right out of flight school, st times you will be treated like a glorified E-4.

If you get your commision, as the previous posts said you will probably not fly much. You'll get about a year as a platoon leader, maybe some time as a company XO, and 1-2 years as a company commander. The rest of the time will be spent in a staff job. You'll still fly, but not nearly as much as those in a line company. Of course you'll get paid much better than Warrants, as well as having a little more diversity in your career.

Both have advantages and disadvantages. I have worked with some great Warrants and commisioned guys as well as some horse**** ones on both sides. You have to examine both sides and make the decision that best suits you.

[Guest RookiePilot]

Thanks for the info Hawk driver 29, and your sarcastic, but still informative advice WXpunk! I'm considering the Army also as I make a somewhat long-term career choice. Whart matters to me more than almost everything, is not so much what I fly or the money I make, really. It's the location that I'm based at. I don't want to end up in FMN, NM. Just somewhere warm and with a comfortable lifestyle. Also i went for my first few "professional" civilian job interviews today, the world outside of college is different. I'm probably one of the only guys with a Math grad. degree, that works at a telemarketing biz for like 7 bucks an hour. It barely pays my car note!!

[Guest croftfam]

Originally posted by RookiePilot:

Thanks for the info Hawk driver 29, and your sarcastic, but still informative advice WXpunk! I'm considering the Army also as I make a somewhat long-term career choice. Whart matters to me more than almost everything, is not so much what I fly or the money I make, really. It's the location that I'm based at. I don't want to end up in FMN, NM. Just somewhere warm and with a comfortable lifestyle. Also i went for my first few "professional" civilian job interviews today, the world outside of college is different. I'm probably one of the only guys with a Math grad. degree, that works at a telemarketing biz for like 7 bucks an hour. It barely pays my car note!!

Dude, no offense, but if you want to fly based on location, you're looking into the wrong career field. Not to sound too cheesey, but fly because you love it, and because you want to serve, but because you like the beach!

[hawkdriver29]

Rookie, I gotta agree with heloguy. If location is you're primary concern then this isn't the job for you. Remember, regardless of what branch you go to you will PCS. Even if you're lucky enough to get that great locale, you won't stay there forever. Don't forget about deployments either, unless Iraq & Afghanistan are what you consider warm and comfortable.

Do this because you love flying, stick with it because you love flying and want to be there for the ground pounders. Doing this for money, notoriety, or a pimpa$$ beach house on the North Shore is just going to leave you dissapointed

[Guest RookiePilot]

Another note the Army recruiter a former Av. guy himself mentioned that most guys outta "flying training" want Helos, so to get a C-12 or UC-35 would be a piece of cake. I'm not sure as the type of flying I'd rather do, at this point I just want to fly!

[Ryder1587]

I don't know where he got that info from but totally wrong from what I've seen. It's really competitive. Few years back Dad applied to it as a 64 driver with like 3000 hrs and got denied. Fixed wings are great in the Army from what I've heard.

[Guest pavesooner]

Rookie Pilot.....if you like the beach and never want to move......

Get a Gunship and stay at Hurlburt until it is time for staff...then weasle your way onto the AFSOC staff and never leave FL....

Other than that, expect to move every 3 years if you get different airframe.

[Guest HueyPilot]

Even in the Guard, FW isn't easy to get into. I was in the LAARNG for nearly 8 years and flew for 4 of those years...I never got close to the one C-12 our state operated, and those that did get the privelege to fly it were a handpicked bunch.

[Guest davisw95]

As an Army rotorcraft/fixed wing commissioned guy, I've read the posts and all are fairly accurate with the exception of the army recruiter's fixed wing quote.

Rucker is taking FW 2LTs straight from flight school at a rate of one or two per class. This will slow as they fill the ranks in the next two years.

Warrant Officers (WO1s) are not getting FW straignt out of Rucker as of now since there is a flood of applicants from the line. It is a very competitive selection process to FW for warrants in the active component. Timing is critical. Since we are seeing a lot of non mod Apache non longbow folks coming through-the army is going to fill its ranks based on need (not necessarily how competitive your FW application file is...).

With that being said in the Warrant ranks, we see a cycle of senior warrants come through at the end of their career (i.e. end of career prize) then a reverse where we actually see a CW2 now and then... The same with the commissioned ranks- a flood of 2LTs then a wave of just CPTs. Right now they younger officers are getting into fixed wing...

All in all- yes, Commissioned you will have a majority of responsibilities outside of the aircraft, meaning- platoon leader, staff officers, commander... in FW you will fly competitive until mid Major. In RW- you'll end your competitive flying after command CPT. Now that's about 7-10 years of fairly descent flying if you are proficient and work your assignments right. As a warrant, you will be in the line your entire carreer and after you make the decision to move beyond 20 years, then you can elect to take non flying staff assignments.

There are pluses and minuses to both fields. I'll be happy to respond to any specific questions you may have on this and offer any advice. Shoot me an email.

Caio

GR

[Guest HueyPilot]

Army FW slots have always been subject to the needs of the Army. When I went through IERW in 1996, WO1s were getting FW at that time...but only 1 every few classes, however. That was also a time when COs (Commssioned types) weren't really getting FW at all, and most of the non-WO1 warrants getting FW were "legacy" pilots (AH-1, UH-1, OH-58A/C) needing a new airframe to fly. If you were a legacy helicopter pilot, all you needed was a pulse and not have pissed anyone off and you would get FW most likely.

[Guest petropat]

Anybody know what the likelyhood of an age waiver for Army WO flight training is? I turn 30 this August and am very curious about my shots at a waiver. Didi very well on the ASVAB and AFAST..although I have to check when it was that I took it. Anyone have any good info, I would appreciate it.

PatrickJ

[Guest jriggoMOANG]

I am not sure what the likelyhood of an age waiver is, but I do know that the Army WO age limit is now 32. I got a buddy at Rucker right now and he was telling me about the age increase. Just food for thought.

[Guest BUFF52]

Yep - You must be at least 18 and not have reached your 32nd birthday at the time of selection. That's directly from an army website:

www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/

It's got more details on minimum test scores, etc in case that's changed too.

Check out the Warrant Officer or Commissioned Officer question for more links & views on wo's. WO sounds like the way to go -

[Guest rotorhead]

Once you have your wings from a US military service, whether you are WO or CO, there is NO age limit for flight training (like after an interservice xfer, move to ANG, etc.), because you are already a rated aviator. You could rotary wing qual, fixed wing qual, or even the whole UPT course of pain, and there is no age limit.

BE ADVISED, HOWEVER, that for WOs, the max age limit to attend OTS still DOES APPLY.

[Guest Stearmann4]

ANG,

Also realize that you'll be in the Army for 6 years plus however long it takes you to go through basic training, Warrant Officer Candidate School, flight school, SERE, you get the idea. 6 turns into 7-8 pretty quickly. Dozens have tried the interservice-xfer route and the Army is having none of it. The reason the age requirement was lowered is because we're short aviators.

If you hang it out till' the end of your committment however, you then could probably try a shot at Guard/Reserve aviation where there isn't necessarily an age cut-off for AMS.

[Guest Stearmann4]

Also, remember that the 40 weeks of flight school is assuming there's no bottle-necks(hurricanes) in the training pipeline. It's not uncommon to spend at least 2-4 months in casual status awaiting class to start...which also adds to your 6 year committment.

[Guest cliftjared]

Hey do any of you Army guys out there know how long you have to wait before you can go to fixed-wing in the Army?

[Guest 60flyer]

Jared, you are right about the Army FW a/c available. Don't expect a FW until you have completed your initial 6 year commitment. The Army uses FW as a golden carrot dangling in front of your face. About 450 warrants apply for 35 slots a year. Who knows what the selection criteria REALLY is.

[Guest BUFF52]

I just did some research - it's hard to find info on Army fixed wing - but here's a link that lists the Army fixed wing bases and the planes based at each. I'm sure some of these are closed - this is as of 2001:

http://www.glue.umd.edu/~oard/spacea/armylist.html

And another link on what each plane is used for:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...410/ai_n9446371

I can't find anything on how you go from helo to fixed wing -

[Champ Kind]

I hear that its fairly selective, and a lot of it is "right place, right time." Several of my buddies' dads are retired Army helo guys, I can ask them next time I talk to any of them to confirm and I'll try to remember to get back with you.

[Guest shaneman250]

Miznitch,

Dunno if you're still interested, but Army LT's and CPT's turn warrant all of the time to go to flight school. I had 2 prior CPT's in my flight school class, out of 18 people. It's a direct commission, so you don't have to go to WOCS (Pain in the a$$) and if you're already a CPT, you go directly to CW2, so you don't have to put up with all of the "WOJG hazing". I've never seen someone do it from the AF, but I'm sure the same rules apply.

[Guest shaneman250]

Hey jared, I'm not sure if you're talking warrant officer or RLO, but for WO's, I don't beleive there is a wait time. You have to be volutary-indefinate, so you have to be at least a CW2, which is 2 years after you pin-on WO1. You have to get selected for it, so you have to be semi-competitive (hours, and time in service). And you pick up a 5 year ADSO (Active Duty Service Obligation). There is no reason you couldn't apply the day you make CW2. I'm not sure where you're coming from, otherwise I could help you out more. (Are you active duty? air force? Commissioned? etc.) Sometimes LT's get fixed-wing as thier transition aircraft, but it's all "based upon the needs of the army". Gaurd units can send their pilot selects straight to a FW transition too. Where are you now, and what is it that you want to do?