So I thought about something, if UPT is maxed out and there is a portion of students that know they are going back to heavy units (a few guys sometimes do very well and switch to fighter units and vice versa but that’s the exception and not the rule) why not establish an ARC only program, half contractor half mil instructed to alleviate waiting in the regular UPT system / boost productivity?

Adopt the 141 based training for pre mil instruction, but a stand alone program, then 1 or 2 locations for the multi engine mil based training.

No T-6 time. GA based PPL with INSTM training then AMEL and x-country. Tailwheel, upset recovery and acro basics. No formation in this phase. About 160+ hours.

Mil instruction in a T-54 (130 bound students plus others) or a successor to the T-1 (Phenom, Hondajet, Citation). About 60+ hours.

Thoughts?

Edited yesterday at 05:59 PM1 day by Clark Griswold

• Who is paying for it

• Who is buying the iron

• What units are losing their current mission to swap to T-54s

• How is losing that current mission set/acft going to impact AD

• Who is training/qualing theT-54 instructors

• How does this help the bottleneck at the heavy FTUs

Zero dog in the fight here btw.

Is this cheaper than what's currently out and can max produce pilots? I feel like that's what big air force is gonna want to even consider looking at something like this. I personally don't mind the idea but some formation is still good, even for heavy guys. The 135 bros and the air droppers all do formation.

If they considered an actual solution instead of throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks, I'd probably volunteer to go teach upt as my next assignment.

31 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

• Who is paying for it

• Who is buying the iron

• What units are losing their current mission to swap to T-54s

• How is losing that current mission set/acft going to impact AD

• Who is training/qualing theT-54 instructors

• How does this help the bottleneck at the heavy FTUs

Zero dog in the fight here btw.

Good questions.

The bill payer I think would be the ARC, O&M pays for training and usually that account is pretty fat. Call it 300 students x about $150k in contractor provided program. 45 million, not chump change but likely cheaper in the long run versus sending them thru a T-6 primary course. I had a modicum staff work in the GWOT days when funding was flowing but my gut tells me it’s affordable.

T-54s or other T jet would be based and manned as an additional squadron at an existing Wing to piggyback as much as possible on existing facilities. Might diminish or eliminate the existing mission but methinks it could be an associated unit if leadership kept it clear what the intent was for dudes volunteering or assigned there. The devil is always in the details but 2-3 year tours to stay below the 5 year limit for a full course requal would probably be an acceptable bill to the ARC in manning coverage.

T-54 instructors would be generated in house, type course and then syllabus if no previous King Air time. Other T jet would be initial cadre and commander designated then establish a similar process.

I think this would help the bottleneck at heavy FTUs by more clearly showing heavy pilot production (at least a large portion of them) to heavy FTU intake. That is you know X number of students in this pipeline are all destined for an X FTU slot, adjust backwards the allocation (number and report times) of UPT slots to the ARC to fit the proper rhythm using wait times from graduation to FTU training start as your primary trend indicator.

1 hour ago, Arkbird said:

Is this cheaper than what's currently out and can max produce pilots? I feel like that's what big air force is gonna want to even consider looking at something like this. I personally don't mind the idea but some formation is still good, even for heavy guys. The 135 bros and the air droppers all do formation.

If they considered an actual solution instead of throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks, I'd probably volunteer to go teach upt as my next assignment.

I’d have to do some serious number crunching with access to data I don’t have but… I’m confident that if I did it would be cheaper. The boost in productivity really comes from the freed up space for the AD if they wanted to backfill those slots that the ARC is no longer in.

Expansion of the UPT enterprise but overall cheaper if run at planned capacity, higher production if desired if you backfill slots, smoother production if you choose to not backfill due to wiggle room in the regular UPT system.

I deleted formation as most of the instructors in this phase 1 would be civilian and likely not familiar, form would be covered in mil instructed flight training.

I don't think you're going to find states that have the money/manning allocation available to add another sq of pilots/MX/etc. to fly a different airframe. I'm an expert by no means but I think the only way this gets done is by dropping the current mission at said base.

Also, the bottleneck question wasn't what I was asking. This gameplan will open up more heavy spots in UPT, to be filled by AD LTs, so now you have more grads from UPT combined with this ARC Rapid Aviator Program (or ARCRAP). These two things only make the bottleneck at the ftus more acute. Even if you keep the number of pilots going to ftus the same as it is now, there is still a bottleneck at the ftu.

If you hold guard dudes until you have a class of X before they start ARCRAP to help reduce the throughput to heavy ftus you're only going to make guard dudes wait longer which is a disincentive for guard units to fund this.

All of this is easily solved by doing what AD already wants to do, which is sending all heavy dudes through a sim only course. No late graduations for weather or MX, and if you threaten the IPs correctly there will be no hooks. Thus, the ftus will know exactly when their next group of students are arriving, yet there is still a bottleneck..

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Boomer6

10 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

I don't think you're going to find states that have the money/manning allocation available to add another sq of pilots/MX/etc. to fly a different airframe. I'm an expert by no means but I think the only way this gets done is by dropping the current mission at said base.

Also, the bottleneck question wasn't what I was asking. This gameplan will open up more heavy spots in UPT, to be filled by AD LTs, so now you have more grads from UPT combined with this ARC Rapid Aviator Program (or ARCRAP). These two things only make the bottleneck at the ftus more acute. Even if you keep the number of pilots going to ftus the same as it is now, there is still a bottleneck at the ftu.

If you hold guard dudes until you have a class of X before they start ARCRAP to help reduce the throughput to heavy ftus you're only going to make guard dudes wait longer which is a disincentive for guard units to fund this.

All of this is easily solved by doing what AD already wants to do, which is sending all heavy dudes through a sim only course. No late graduations for weather or MX, and if you threaten the IPs correctly there will be no hooks. Thus, the ftus will know exactly when their next group of students are arriving, yet thete is still a bottleneck..

You might be right, if a unit were to lose or change its mission for this said unit / state leadership would have to have A LOT of confidence that the plane & training mission would last, I saw the C-27J bait ‘n switch up close and personal, that’s a few years in the rear view but I’d be surprised if the ANG institutional memory has forgotten it.

I think you probably could get some takers for this mission as there are more than a few MWS’s in the ARC that are not looking relevant going into the future, if you approached a Wing(s) with a plan to keep them gainfully employed, no significant long term change to the economic footprint in the state and public support from AD leadership that this COA will be supported for 10+ years at least, some I think would raise a hand.

Yeah, if AD students are allowed to attend it could exacerbate the problem of FTU waiting, or if scheduled correctly it would more slowly produce but not overwhelm FTU intake, all in the execution.

All simulators…. Yup, that’s the real devil / part of a way forward I think leadership sees as the easy button. The thing is it is half right. I’ve gone thru two airline sim programs but after I’ve had 20+ years flying so it was appropriate for me to learn and safely, reliably operate a transport category aircraft in routine operations. That is not the case for 99.9% of UPT studs and the range of flight operations they will be required to perform if called upon. A hybrid of ME flight training then a solid type+ course in a transport category level D sim, maybe.

The best argument against all simulator ME training I think (not that the AF would follow it) is if all sim ME training is acceptable in quality and risk then why hasn’t the commercial world embraced it?