FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[ReferenceGround]

Total dollar amount for all classes or just the most recent? Seems weird I would pay based on classes I took 4 years ago and already ran the commitment on.

It should be the classes that you have the ADSC for. As I understand it your ADSC goes off of the class end date. So if you took classes 4 years ago and already fulfilled the commitment then there should be no need for them to collect any TA that was paid.

[shweaty]

Not sure if everyone has seen this. Taken from AF.mil

"Officer and enlisted VSP

About 8,600 VSP applications have been submitted (7,200 enlisted and 1,400 officer), with approximately 50 percent meeting eligibility criteria. In most cases, the ineligible applications are from Airmen who currently serve in a non-eligible AFSC. Even though the VSP window does not close until May 1,750 enlisted VSP applications have been approved thus far with notifications going out this week. Officer approvals will also begin this week now that updated eligibility matrices and overage estimates are published. Applications and additional notifications will continue to be processed in all eligible AFSCs, enlisted grades and officer year groups."

[LettersVSandP]

There's an interesting statement in the Q&A for the voluntary matix on MyPers. I wish I'd copied it when I was on a computer with a CAC reader, but it says when the blocks go red, the AFSC/YG won't meet a RIF board. Maybe somebody can grab the exact wording for everyone. Have we finally found out how many times the SECAF and CSAF have to say something before the middle managers actually follow their guidance? (Only have a RIF board if there aren't enough volunteers.)

I was planning to submit a "RIF me" letter to the board if my VSP application was denied...again. If MyPers can be believed (they can't, but here's hoping), those of us who have applied for VSP wouldn't meet a RIF board. We'd either have our VSP approved or run out of overage and a RIF board wouldn't be necessary.

On another bit of good news, with only 1,400 VSP applications, it seems likely that 550 waivers is enough to cover most if not all of the people requesting one. Some fraction of the applicants are eligible based on YG/AFSCs. Some fraction of those applicants are rated. Some further fraction of those applicants have an ADSC other than the ones listed in PSDM 13-65. It seems to me that final number would be less than 550. For you nerds out there, this is a logical argument anologous to the Drake equation. If you don't know what that is and want to, look it up yourself. I'm not wikipedia.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

Waiting for the first 11M in an 18S billet to get denied. I'm guessing there's a lot of us.

[Mish_Hacker]

Waiting for the first 11M in an 18S billet to get denied. I'm guessing there's a lot of us.

Just curious: what's the difference between 18S and 11U? Is 18X the non-core AFSC?

[lossofclocklossofdata]

18S is for the pipeline student Undergrad RPA Training (URT). 11U is the core flag for UPT grads who fill an RPA slot straight out of pilot training. Previous MWS folks keep their core flag unless they recat but everyone's primary and duty AFSC become 18S.

[tunes]

it's weird how different communities do things..in the MC-12 they changed everyone's core flag from whatever it was previous i.e. 11M,11B to 11R and told us we had no say in the matter.

Not sure if everyone has seen this. Taken from AF.mil

"Officer and enlisted VSP

About 8,600 VSP applications have been submitted (7,200 enlisted and 1,400 officer), with approximately 50 percent meeting eligibility criteria. In most cases, the ineligible applications are from Airmen who currently serve in a non-eligible AFSC. Even though the VSP window does not close until May 1,750 enlisted VSP applications have been approved thus far with notifications going out this week. Officer approvals will also begin this week now that updated eligibility matrices and overage estimates are published. Applications and additional notifications will continue to be processed in all eligible AFSCs, enlisted grades and officer year groups."

I'm wondering if the 'ineligible' officers they are referring to are ones with a UPT ADSC.....

[lossofclocklossofdata]

it's weird how different communities do things..in the MC-12 they changed everyone's core flag from whatever it was previous i.e. 11M,11B to 11R and told us we had no say in the matter.

I'm wondering if the 'ineligible' officers they are referring to are ones with a UPT ADSC.....

Interesting. And that was with the assumption you would get handed back to your FAM after? I think that's why ours stays. We're considered on an "alpha" or career broadening tour, but go back to our functional when we hit the VML. Similar to a white jet tour.

[USAF Pilot]

ADSC waiver table is up on myPers.

Waived:

2 yr PCS

6 yrs of UPT

GI bill to dependents

+ a bunch of other stuff

[lossofclocklossofdata]

Anyone notice that the band AFSC is red across the board? Definitely can't lose that experience and expertise, but we certainly don't need all these pilots sitting around not flying. Maybe our motto should be "Play, listen, enjoy" instead of "Fly, fight, win."

[rickybobby135]

1 11M T11k3F

2 2004

3 135, T6 & E11 IP

4 10 months upt Adsc

Resubmitted on the first and waiting on the decision. Previously, mine was kicked back for upt Adsc.

I stopped paying any serious attention to this VSP debacle months ago and stayed focused on PC. However, after seeing a couple guys get good news today I decided to read the current flavor of PSDM related to Officer VSP and noticed the absence of one damning detail; the "promotion list" or "1yr time in grade" details that initially excluded the 2004 year group is long gone. If I am reading this right, 2004 11X (non 11F) guys are now eligible.

Any 2004 11x dudes apply? Is it possible to apply for VSP with a current application in for PC? I think you can only apply to separate once (at a time). It would be nice to stack a list of concurrent separation requests alongside my stack of ADSC's.

I was told by the total force service center I could only have one separation application in at a time. The system has eaten my first VSP application after I submitted a separation for misc reasons. I would opt for the VSP over the PC separation if I were making a choice. Worst case if VSP app is denied, resume the PC application. Best of luck.

RB

[Altus Barbarosa]

I stopped paying any serious attention to this VSP debacle months ago and stayed focused on PC. However, after seeing a couple guys get good news today I decided to read the current flavor of PSDM related to Officer VSP and noticed the absence of one damning detail; the "promotion list" or "1yr time in grade" details that initially excluded the 2004 year group is long gone. If I am reading this right, 2004 11X (non 11F) guys are now eligible.

Any 2004 11x dudes apply? Is it possible to apply for VSP with a current application in for PC? I think you can only apply to separate once (at a time). It would be nice to stack a list of concurrent separation requests alongside my stack of ADSC's.

The 04yg was never excluded from voluntary programs. Go back me look. They are excluded from rif until next year anyway.

[MooseAg03]

Rules for posting VSP Approval/Disapproval shit:

1. AFSC

2. Year group

3. Airframe

4. UPT/UNT ADSC - yes or no

It would be helpful if everyone posted relative information from their VSP application - Whether your SQ and/or Wing CC recommended approval or disapproval and if they checked that you were excess in relation to squadron requirements.

I'm willing to bet that all of us 18Xers got the disapproval and the argument that we are indispensable to the mission due to poor RPA pilot manning. Even though other squadrons at my location have guys only flying a few times a week. I'd like to see if anyone who was recommended disapproval at a lower level gets the approval from the gods at AFPC.

[tunes]

Interesting. And that was with the assumption you would get handed back to your FAM after? I think that's why ours stays. We're considered on an "alpha" or career broadening tour, but go back to our functional when we hit the VML. Similar to a white jet tour.

oh no, they changed it to 11R and told us "a return to the MAF is unlikely"....they said originally the same about alpha tour for us, then changed their minds.

[Bender]

it's weird how different communities do things..in the MC-12 they changed everyone's core flag from whatever it was previous i.e. 11M,11B to 11R and told us we had no say in the matter.

And yet the VSP/RIF is still being conducted against RDTM (as it should be). Changing all of those core ID's doesn't seem congruent with a complete elimination of "overages". We'll reduce to the required number of 11R/11B/11M by RDTM, then realized we moved 300 people into 11R (by Core ID only) for a reason not provided (requalification capacities I can only guess).

oh no, they changed it to 11R and told us "a return to the MAF is unlikely"....they said originally the same about alpha tour for us, then changed their minds.

The only problem is that the RDTM is supposed to be how "your functional" is assigned. "Distribution and training management" is something that has definitions, "Core ID" does not have any concrete usefulness that I can find.

Tunes, I think they're just hiding you because you're too valuable.

Bendy

Edited April 4, 2014 by Bender

[tunes]

And yet the VSP/RIF is still being conducted against RDTM (as it should be). Changing all of those core ID's doesn't seem congruent with a complete elimination of "overages". We'll reduce to the required number of 11R/11B/11M by RDTM, then realized we moved 300 people into 11R (by Core ID only) for a reason not provided (requalification capacities I can only guess).

The only problem is that the RDTM is supposed to be how "your functional" is assigned. "Distribution and training management" is something that has definitions, "Core ID" does not have any concrete usefulness that I can find.

Tunes, I think they're just hiding you because you're too valuable.

Bendy

i get what you are saying..i'm holding on to that RDTM thing because that did not change. Guess the kicker will be what functional my PC paperwork goes to when VSP gets denied again.

[rickybobby135]

I had CC concurrence at both levels.

[Mish_Hacker]

On the Voluntary eligibility matrix: The note in the upper-left hand corner that said, "As of 28 Mar 2014 1700hrs (eom Feb inventory)" on the matrix posted yesterday is no longer there. Now that corner is blank.

Infer away...

[lossofclocklossofdata]

oh no, they changed it to 11R and told us "a return to the MAF is unlikely"....they said originally the same about alpha tour for us, then changed their minds.

Well if it makes you feel any better I'm envious and would take an MC12 assignment post haste. My chances to return don't look much better.

[tunes]

Well if it makes you feel any better I'm envious and would take an MC12 assignment post haste. My chances to return don't look much better.

I've heard of a decent amount of people returning and even getting follow ons after RPAs out of UPT.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

I've heard of a decent amount of people returning and even getting follow ons after RPAs out of UPT.

True. The UPT direct folks still have the big blue guarantee to follow on with manned after their initial RPA tour. Not so for the few previous MWS folks.

Edited April 4, 2014 by lossofclocklossofdata

[HoHum]

On the Voluntary eligibility matrix: The note in the upper-left hand corner that said, "As of 28 Mar 2014 1700hrs (eom Feb inventory)" on the matrix posted yesterday is no longer there. Now that corner is blank.

Infer away...

That checks. I got an auto-mail today that said the force management section had been updated and the matrix was the only thing I could find that was different for VSP.

[panchbarnes]

I must say AFPC's PAO has been on-point in the past 48-hrs regarding educating/updating everyone about the FMP. They are updating the website as soon as something drops, even including the direct links to the different matrices!

Should have adopted this TTP from the start.

https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/475238/af-updates-officer-enlisted-voluntary-force-management-eligibility-lists.aspx

[f15etaz]

Gents,

Conducting some civilian training with no access for updates. Can anyone please paste the info for the Aviation Continuation Waver (pilot bonus)? Much appreciated!

Good luck! Guard and Reserve jobs await you.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[Mish_Hacker]

Gents,

Conducting some civilian training with no access for updates. Can anyone please paste the info for the Aviation Continuation Waver (pilot bonus)? Much appreciated!

Good luck! Guard and Reserve jobs await you.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Aviation Retention Pay (formerly Aviation Continuation Pay) - Full Waiver

Recoupment Required - Yes

Notes:

1. Recoupment of unearned portions of bonuses is required under the LADSC Waiver Program to include but not limited to retention bonuses, special pays, tuition assistance, and any other monetary incentives unless specifically exempted.
2. When recoupment is applicable, recoupment will be an amount that bears the same ratio to the total amount or cost provided to the unearned/unserved portion of active duty the officer agreed to serve.
3. Officers who leave the Air Force under voluntary separation and retirement programs without completing their Post-9/11 GI Bill Active Duty Service Commitment forfeit the transferred benefit, and any benefits that dependents used may be treated as an overpayment subject to recoupment by the Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA). Officers who wish to retain their transfer benefit may consider continued service in the Guard or Reserve through the PALACE CHASE program. See Attachment 3, FY14 PALACE CHASE Program (PSDM 13-65), for further information. For questions, contact the DVA at 1-888-GIBILL1 (1-888-442-4551). This note does not apply to officers approved for VSP or TERA.