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Will never forget this: One muggy Pcola day I crawl into a T-39 at VT-86 for a low-level ride with two of my other buds. G-man and myself have our self made low level charts and radar predictions fo

16-09 Drop AC-130 U (Hurlburt, FL) EC-130 NAV (Davis Monthan, AZ) MC-130J CSO (Kadena, Japan) C-130H Guard Nav (Reno, NV) U-28 CSO (Cannon, NM) E-3 Nav (Tinker, OK) 2 X F-15E (Seymour J

17-11 4 x B-52 WSO  1 x B-52 EWO 2 x RC-135 Nav 4 x RC-135 EWO 1 x AC-130W CSO Cannon 1 x AC-130J CSO (only the second time this has dropped, other was 17-01) 4 x F-

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This might be pretty barren for a while. I don't know where we stand in Randolf, but in Pcola we don't have any assignments from the first class of the new CSO program until March or April of 2011.

With that said it will be extremely interesting to see what the drops are like for that first class, especially for those of us about to start training. Just three weeks left....assuming I don't get pushed back again.

Edited by FlyingBull
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This might be pretty barren for a while. I don't know where we stand in Randolph, but in Pcola we don't have any assignments from the first class of the new CSO program until March or April of 2011.

With that said it will be extremely interesting to see what the drops are like for that first class, especially for those of us about to start training. Just three weeks left....assuming I don't get pushed back again.

Noted... Just wanted to throw it out there for when they DO come around. Tell your classmates about Baseops!

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  • 6 months later...

NAS Pensacola CSO Class 11-01 (First Class)

B-1B - Dyess

B-1B - Dyess

B-1B - Dyess

B-1B - Dyess

F-15E - Seymour

C-130 - Cheyenne (ANG)

KC-135 - McConnell

EC-130 - DM

AC-130H EWO - Cannon

AC-130U Nav - Hurlburt

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Holy thread bump, Batman! And what a drop. For all the bugs, I wish they had had this program when I commissioned. One question-- Is the EC-130 drop for a Nav or EWO? Or is the FTU making that decision?

Side note: I'm starting B-52 DSNIQ on 1 April (crossflowing from another jet, graduated from the old Randolph syllabus in '07) and the rest of my class is apparently made up of Strike Nav grads. Apparently they ended the EWO Bridge course a while back, so the B-1 community was getting zero new accessions and everyone else was split 45% F-15E/45% BUFFs/10% other stuff. Looks like the B-1 piper is starting to get paid with this drop (of course, I understand B-1/F-15E students have a long wait time before they start the FTU).

Edited by Disco_Nav963
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Well, guess that dispells the rumor that the Buff was getting a good chunk of the first drops out of PCola. Pretty good drop, though.

The rumint still says that there are lots of Buffs for the remaining FY11 classes. We're told B-1's took priority in the first class due to the FTU timing and that each time the FTU cycles another four will drop. Well thats the rumor anyway...

Edited by FlyingBull
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There's another asset that is still pretty undermanned that I'm surprised didn't get any of the new studs. Their loss, greatest job out there for a CSO if ya ask me...

Great drop though, congrats to all.

Edited by nsplayr
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The Bone was also shorted from the old Pensacola program due to Randolph's EWO following on training shutting down (6 slots were never filled and Buff received the students).

The asset is looking for mostly brand new CSOs nowadays. We were told months ago that our class could be half asset, half slick C-130s, I'm glad that wasn't the case.

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The Bone was also shorted from the old Pensacola program due to Randolph's EWO following on training shutting down (6 slots were never filled and Buff received the students).

The asset is looking for mostly brand new CSOs nowadays. We were told months ago that our class could be half asset, half slick C-130s, I'm glad that wasn't the case.

Congrats. You'll be a WSO. Don't pork it.

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Apparently the guys on "the asset" are now WSOs too -- so says slide 14 from last week's CSO Conference. Is someone acknowledging that while the program might be called CSO, it's still weird to call someone a CSO?

There's a CSO Conference? I didn't know there was such a thing.

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Apparently the guys on "the asset" are now WSOs too -- so says slide 14 from last week's CSO Conference. Is someone acknowledging that while the program might be called CSO, it's still weird to call someone a CSO?

That is not correct. If you come to where I work you will be called a CSO. As far as I know we're one of 2 platforms that calls their 12XX folks CSOs, so in the grand scheme of things it's weird but in my little bubble it's normal.

As far as new vs. experienced, as far as I know we'll gladly take both and our training pipeline has turned out good products from both green 2Lts and silverback Lt Cols. Just don't suck or be fat.

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Congrats. You'll be a WSO. Don't pork it.

I've been receiving that advice a lot lately.

There's a CSO Conference? I didn't know there was such a thing.

Yeah, most of the CSO FTUs sent CCs or DOs to Pensacola last week to discuss how to use the new "CSO".

That is not correct. If you come to where I work you will be called a CSO. As far as I know we're one of 2 platforms that calls their 12XX folks CSOs, so in the grand scheme of things it's weird but in my little bubble it's normal.

^agree

I've spent my whole career in Pensacola so far, and the term CSO is completely normal to me. In fact, WSO/EWO/Nav sounds odd. I expect to start using the term WSO in the few months, but behind me are 400 new officers a year, with "CSO" ingrained into our brains.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been receiving that advice a lot lately.

Yeah, most of the CSO FTUs sent CCs or DOs to Pensacola last week to discuss how to use the new "CSO".

^agree

I've spent my whole career in Pensacola so far, and the term CSO is completely normal to me. In fact, WSO/EWO/Nav sounds odd. I expect to start using the term WSO in the few months, but behind me are 400 new officers a year, with "CSO" ingrained into our brains.

Well, the "CSO" FTUs are more like Nav FTUs or WSO FTUs, and yes, expect to use whatever terminology your community uses. I've heard at least one story of a Buff nav doing his crew report with "CSO's check complete" instead of "Nav's check complete" and the RN about ripped his skull off. I honestly don't think CSO's going to come into widespread use until quite a while from now. Maybe it'll be when the preponderance of 12xx types are those trained at PCola instead of at Randolph. Heck, now I can be like the crusty LSI guys who always told stories from "Back at Mather". Well, back at Randolph...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, the "CSO" FTUs are more like Nav FTUs or WSO FTUs, and yes, expect to use whatever terminology your community uses. I've heard at least one story of a Buff nav doing his crew report with "CSO's check complete" instead of "Nav's check complete" and the RN about ripped his skull off. I honestly don't think CSO's going to come into widespread use until quite a while from now. Maybe it'll be when the preponderance of 12xx types are those trained at PCola instead of at Randolph. Heck, now I can be like the crusty LSI guys who always told stories from "Back at Mather". Well, back at Randolph...

At KBAD in the 07 timeframe, there was a nav that got kicked off a sortie during ground ops for that. He wanted to be referred to as "CSO" during checks and over the interphone and refused to respond to "nav" from the other crewmembers. After not getting a response to a question, the AC told him to get the f*ck off of his jet. He called up blue ops and told them to send out another nav to the jet. There are numerous stories out there about this dude.

Edited by go_cubbies22
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Add'l thought from a FNG. If we're going to do this whole Dual Seat Nav mess, why not just call DSNs OSOs and E-dubs DSOs. The impression I get is that besides being more experienced and hence trusted with more weapons delivery roles, one of the Radar Nav's most important jobs pre-GPS and pre-GPS/Inertially aided munitions was keeping the radar and by extension the navigation solution solid. The old head contract academic instructor-driven syllabus is frontloaded with "old school OAS management appreciation" (nothing wrong with that, from a pyschology standpoint I imagine I'm retaining the information better than if it were presented as a Degraded Ops procedure down the road). However, a lot of that work is pretty automated now and the political reality is that when it counts we aren't going to be dropping munitions without a GPS solution anyway. So the "Radar" title means less than it used to, and the way the newer guys (08 to present) are being treated by the IC to the 2B-52-1 and the RTM is you're either an Experienced DSN and sit mostly in the left seat or an Inexperienced DSN and sit in the right seat except for supervised beans/currencies.

So if we're going to keep this concept (which I understand was the outcome of the last Commander's Conference--I imagine the cost savings of not having to send someone back to the FTU until CFIC is substantial), why use the awkward terminology? You are qualified to perform the role and operate the equipment of the Offense Compartment, so why not have Experienced and Inexperienced OSOs. Brings us somewhat in-line with the only other bomber out there with 12Bs... But we wouldn't ape the WSO terminology either since there is no Dual Qual'ing between Offense and Defense. Although, someone did raise a similar concept in a WIC paper subtitled "WSO Concept for the B-52" (the thrust of the paper was about using 4 person crews in certain operational scenarios--don't see it happening, nor do I see us ever being called WSOs if only for historical reasons--but the OSO/DSO concept makes sense).

Caveat: I'm not like that other d-bag, and as the new guy I'll answer to whatever they want to call me on the jet including Shirley.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Add'l thought from a FNG. If we're going to do this whole Dual Seat Nav mess, why not just call DSNs OSOs and E-dubs DSOs. The impression I get is that besides being more experienced and hence trusted with more weapons delivery roles, one of the Radar Nav's most important jobs pre-GPS and pre-GPS/Inertially aided munitions was keeping the radar and by extension the navigation solution solid. The old head contract academic instructor-driven syllabus is frontloaded with "old school OAS management appreciation" (nothing wrong with that, from a pyschology standpoint I imagine I'm retaining the information better than if it were presented as a Degraded Ops procedure down the road). However, a lot of that work is pretty automated now and the political reality is that when it counts we aren't going to be dropping munitions without a GPS solution anyway. So the "Radar" title means less than it used to, and the way the newer guys (08 to present) are being treated by the IC to the 2B-52-1 and the RTM is you're either an Experienced DSN and sit mostly in the left seat or an Inexperienced DSN and sit in the right seat except for supervised beans/currencies.

So if we're going to keep this concept (which I understand was the outcome of the last Commander's Conference--I imagine the cost savings of not having to send someone back to the FTU until CFIC is substantial), why use the awkward terminology? You are qualified to perform the role and operate the equipment of the Offense Compartment, so why not have Experienced and Inexperienced OSOs. Brings us somewhat in-line with the only other bomber out there with 12Bs... But we wouldn't ape the WSO terminology either since there is no Dual Qual'ing between Offense and Defense. Although, someone did raise a similar concept in a WIC paper subtitled "WSO Concept for the B-52" (the thrust of the paper was about using 4 person crews in certain operational scenarios--don't see it happening, nor do I see us ever being called WSOs if only for historical reasons--but the OSO/DSO concept makes sense).

Caveat: I'm not like that other d-bag, and as the new guy I'll answer to whatever they want to call me on the jet including Shirley.

What you say makes sense to me...but as a B-1 guy, I was dual-qual'd from the day I graduated the FTU.

Don't sell the degraded ops short...there are plenty of situations where GPS may be denied to you, and several where it may be denied more-or-less permanently.

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