Debt Repayment

[Finance_Guy]

Don't blame finance, from your story it's all the HARM's fault. HARM turns it off, HARM has to turn it back on. Once the transaction from the "HARM" is input by finance, then yes you fly pay goes to zero. Not finance's fault that I can see unless you have more details as to exactly what they did wrong. HARM is the clown from what I see.

SGLI & Family SGLI input is all done by MPF/FSS, not finance.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Finance_Guy

[Gravedigger]

SGLI & Family SGLI input is all done by MPF/FSS, not finance.

Yes, but when it gets jacked up at the MPF, you have to go to Finance to get your money back.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Gravedigger

[capt4fans]

Dude, take some Midol and STFU about the asswisery. Have you been here before? We give each other shit all the time. I'd think that someone with several hundred posts has actually seen this happen...

I understand that humor and the asswisery here. Hence the reason I didn't comment on M2's post. I also know better than to question a Mod as well. However, when a SNAP like Learjetter pipes in with "Well if it;s legit, why not pay it", it kinda begs a reply that I'm trying to find out if it is legit. I'll take the Midol and gladly pass them off to your Mom. She was complaining about cramping after I had my way with her last night. Must be that she's not used to something so big.

Have a great week.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Don't blame finance, from your story it's all the HARM's fault. HARM turns it off, HARM has to turn it back on. Once the transaction from the "HARM" is input by finance, then yes you fly pay goes to zero. Not finance's fault that I can see unless you have more details as to exactly what they did wrong. HARM is the clown from what I see.

Perhaps...but what I do know is the HARM office was full of apologies and within a couple days they had sent the order up to reinstate my flight pay. It took MONTHS for finance to fix my paycheck with respect to the debt, and their attitude was often <shrug> when I was up there. It wasn't their paycheck, so they weren't in any hurry to fix it.

[Finance_Guy]

Perhaps...but what I do know is the HARM office was full of apologies and within a couple days they had sent the order up to reinstate my flight pay. It took MONTHS for finance to fix my paycheck with respect to the debt, and their attitude was often <shrug> when I was up there. It wasn't their paycheck, so they weren't in any hurry to fix it.

I agree. Doesn't take but a few minutes to input a new start transaction. If finance had the HARM paperwork and sat on it, then they are also clowns. Where did good customer service go? Their job is to input pay affecting transactions timely.

Yes, but when it gets jacked up at the MPF, you have to go to Finance to get your money back.

Nope, MPF and AFPC have to work out the transactions and once they update, the refund is systematic. Finance has no ability to update your pay record for the start or refund.

[Gravedigger]

Nope, MPF and AFPC have to work out the transactions and once they update, the refund is systematic. Finance has no ability to update your pay record for the start or refund.

WTF?! Maybe that's why my finance office has no idea what to do and keeps telling me to talk to MPF, who in turn keeps telling me to talk to finance. "We don't deal with money" -MPF "I don't know anything about SGLI." -Finance.

[Finance_Guy]

WTF?! Maybe that's why my finance office has no idea what to do and keeps telling me to talk to MPF, who in turn keeps telling me to talk to finance. "We don't deal with money" -MPF "I don't know anything about SGLI." -Finance.

Go forth and tell MPF to learn to do their jobs.

REF AFMAN 65-116 Vol 1, Chapter 63, SERVICE MEMBER'S GROUP LIFE INSURANCE (SGLI)

63.3. Source of Input:

63.3.1. The accession transaction automatically establishes maximum coverage for all members accessed into the Air Force through DJMS.

63.3.2. The MPF maintaining member's personnel records prepares all input transactions, including changing SGLI options, and transmits direct to DFAS-DE. MPF input adds, stops or changes SGLI deduction on member's MMPA. Processed transactions appear in section 6 of daily transaction register (DTR) for servicing FSO.

63.5. Family SGLI. Effective 1 November 2001, Title 38, United States Code, allows for family coverage under Servicemembers Group Life Insurance (SGLI).

63.5.3. Source of Input. The automatic deduction (FID DB) is started by input source 3740, Defense Manpower Data Center (DMDC), based on information obtained from Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System (DEERS). The member’s MPF is responsible for maintaining the FSGLI documentation and providing that information to DEERS.

[MilitaryToFinance]

Go forth and tell MPF to learn to do their jobs.

REF AFMAN 65-116 Vol 1, Chapter 63, SERVICE MEMBER'S GROUP LIFE INSURANCE (SGLI)

What would we do without FG?

[ellsworb]

Go forth and tell MPF to learn to do their jobs.

REF AFMAN 65-116 Vol 1, Chapter 63, SERVICE MEMBER'S GROUP LIFE INSURANCE (SGLI)

63.3. Source of Input:

63.3.1. The accession transaction automatically establishes maximum coverage for all members accessed into the Air Force through DJMS.

63.3.2. The MPF maintaining member's personnel records prepares all input transactions, including changing SGLI options, and transmits direct to DFAS-DE. MPF input adds, stops or changes SGLI deduction on member's MMPA. Processed transactions appear in section 6 of daily transaction register (DTR) for servicing FSO.

63.5. Family SGLI. Effective 1 November 2001, Title 38, United States Code, allows for family coverage under Servicemembers Group Life Insurance (SGLI).

63.5.3. Source of Input. The automatic deduction (FID DB) is started by input source 3740, Defense Manpower Data Center (DMDC), based on information obtained from Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System (DEERS). The member’s MPF is responsible for maintaining the FSGLI documentation and providing that information to DEERS.

Dude, we owe you beers for life.

[Gravedigger]

What would we do without FG?

Never get our money.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

For the record, not everyone in finance is clueless...regarding my recent voucher issues, a friend put me in touch with a particular person at the LRAFB finance office, and she took care of it ASAP. Now, only if everyone that worked there had that kind of ethic and "get it done" attitude, I think threads like this would be pretty rare.

[Guest]

For the record, not everyone in finance is clueless...

You are exactly right. Good attitude.

[Finance_Guy]

For the record, not everyone in finance is clueless...regarding my recent voucher issues, a friend put me in touch with a particular person at the LRAFB finance office, and she took care of it ASAP. Now, only if everyone that worked there had that kind of ethic and "get it done" attitude, I think threads like this would be pretty rare.

LR has some good troops.

[capt4fans]

I know that there are some good troops in Finance. It's just that they are few and far between. Of my 6 bases that I've been at in 10 years, there's only one that cuts the mustard. And that's Little Rock. Now if only they could send some of the troops from LR to Pope and fix the mess that exists there, I'd probably have no reason to gripe.

[Guest]

Now if only they could send some of the troops from LR to Pope and fix the mess that exists there, I'd probably have no reason to gripe.

No, there's always a reason to gripe.

The best solution is to make a point of recognizing high performance when you see it. An email to the commander CC/the high performer and your own boss is worth the 6.9 seconds it takes to fire it off.

[capt4fans]

No, there's always a reason to gripe.

The best solution is to make a point of recognizing high performance when you see it. An email to the commander CC/the high performer and your own boss is worth the 6.9 seconds it takes to fire it off.

I do follow up with that. The problem is that when the system bends you over and has it's way with you, even if they're wrong, you don't get a "Sorry we screwed up. I'll make sure (insert rank here) Snuffy is given additional training." You get a scowl and a dirty look that I actually took the time to do their job and did it better than they could.

[Guest]

I do follow up with that. The problem is that when the system bends you over and has it's way with you, even if they're wrong, you don't get a "Sorry we screwed up. I'll make sure (insert rank here) Snuffy is given additional training." You get a scowl and a dirty look that I actually took the time to do their job and did it better than they could.

Are you really looking for retribution on Snuffy? That's a bit of a power trip.

Of course you can do their job better than they can. That is true for just about any job on base. Fuckin A, you need to realize that and chill out if you're really expecting everyone on base to be as smart and motivated to high performance as the pilots (and navs) in ops. That is never going to happen. Never fucking ever. Face it.

The key is to work to fix the process and definitely recognize the folks that do a good job because they are probably getting shit on by the rest of the monkeys who are threatened by their performance...if you really want to make things better for everyone.

You will be better off facing up to the fact that you will have to do their job for them vs blowing a nut by getting pissed at their incompetence...if you don't give a shit about making things better and just want to get your own shit squared away.

Technique only.

BTW, it took me a long time to learn that technique but my life got better when I stopped being a victim and just made the decision that I was either going to do their job for them or take even more time to try to improve the system. FWIW, most of the time I chose the former option because I didn't have time for the latter.

Ultimately it made more sense using my energy being fired up about the real enemy vs the local enemy.

[capt4fans]

Are you really looking for retribution on Snuffy? That's a bit of a power trip.

Of course you can do their job better than they can. That is true for just about any job on base. Fuckin A, you need to realize that and chill out if you're really expecting everyone on base to be as smart and motivated to high performance as the pilots (and navs) in ops. That is never going to happen. Never fucking ever. Face it.

The key is to work to fix the process and definitely recognize the folks that do a good job because they are probably getting shit on by the rest of the monkeys who are threatened by their performance...if you really want to make things better for everyone.

You will be better off facing up to the fact that you will have to do their job for them vs blowing a nut by getting pissed at their incompetence...if you don't give a shit about making things better and just want to get your own shit squared away.

Technique only.

BTW, it took me a long time to learn that technique but my life got better when I stopped being a victim and just made the decision that I was either going to do their job for them or take even more time to try to improve the system. FWIW, most of the time I chose the former option because I didn't have time for the latter.

Ultimately it made more sense using my energy being fired up about the real enemy vs the local enemy.

Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning Rainman? I don't have the best command of the English language, but the word retribution is no where in my post. All I'd like is an apology. And most of the time, I don't get that. I know I have to do their job, I came to terms with that at my first operational assignment.

Fix the process? Did you actually say fix the process? If finance could fix the process, we wouldn't have a thread dedicated to http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index.php?/topic/618-temporary-duty-tdy-info-claims-vouchers-rentals-bah/ that is 11 pages long. Yes there would be questions, but the majority of the posts on that thread are bitching about how finance (and lodging) continues to try and screw up paying what are legitimate claims/vouchers.

I don't expect everyone on base to be as smart or as high speed as OPs (your words when theis comes back to bite me) but I do expect that there is at least 2-3 people in every organization who will go out of their way to fix problems, and when they've taken care of it, and see that it's a continuing problem in their unit, try to get it fixed so the next guy doesn't get fucked over like the rest of us have.

I've been around the block long enough to know how to handle myself around these situations. And a last clarification, what I meant by remedial training was to be taken care of behind closed doors. Misplaced the qoutes. Sorry about that.

Edited August 31, 2010 by capt4fans

[capt4fans]

Don't hold your breath. Your need for an apology reminds me of Vincent Vega's need for a "please."

"I'm very sorry we didn't catch this mistake for several years, now pay your fu*king bill."

Do any of you actually read? I never said I wanted an apology from DFAS for missing a debt that I might or might not owe that's over 4 years old. But when I walk into Finance with a 1 inch stack of papers to show them how they tried to fuck me out of over $5,000 and I get a deer in the headlight look, then I'd like a small, "I'm sorry."

Or I expect some effort from my local finance office when I ask to trak down LES's from 4+ years ago about a 4+ year old debt, and instaed of getting that information, they tell me they checked my pay records and see no debt for the last 3 years. Last I checked, 4 doesn't equal 3.

Then again, with math skills like that, maybe that's why all my travel vouchers keep coming back fucked up.

Again, since neither USAFpilot, or Rainman have any command of the english language when you see where I say, "I'd like" that doesn't mean "I DEMAND"

Back to your regularly schedule lives.

Edited August 31, 2010 by capt4fans

[busdriver]

You can want (wish) in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up first.

[capt4fans]

You can want (wish) in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up first.

And in from left field with the third most useless comment on this post is busdriver.

busdriver, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[pawnman]

I get it. It would be nice, when you present Finance with all the evidence that they have screwed up your pay, if they would take some kind of responsibility for it. A simple "You're right, sir, that is a mistake. Sorry about that" would go a long way. Instead, they always feel the need to argue with you about any problem you might have. It's amazing the level of evidence they need from you to fix a problem, compared with the level of evidence they need to take money away from you.

I don't know if I've told the story before, but there is a guy in our community who experienced this first hand. As many flyers do, he was dumping 100% of his flight pay into TSP. Guy has a motorcycle accident and blacks out. Of course, this means he's long-term DNIF, without flight pay. When he finally gets medically cleared, he shows up for requal. As he's in-processing, some enterprising young Finance troop says to himself "Hey, this guys a flyer but he hasn't gotten flight pay in five years...I'll fix that right now". In one paycheck, something like $50,000 gets dumped into TSP. And then Finance realizes their mistake and essentially stops paying him altogether to recoup the $50,000. Keep in mind, at no time did they ask him if he should be receiving flight pay, nor did he tell them he should be getting the back pay. And now because TSP is a separate system, they have no way to get the money out of TSP, so they simply stop paying the guy until the debt is cleared. His first inkling is the $0 paycheck.

I'm not sure what the resolution was.

[Guest]

Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning Rainman?

no one did. You're taking every comment a little too personal. You're not being attacked, at least by me. Nor am I trying to patronize you. I'm just trying to pass advice.

Fix the process? Did you actually say fix the process?

Yes, I did.

I don't expect everyone on base to be as smart or as high speed as OPs (your words when theis comes back to bite me) but I do expect that there is at least 2-3 people in every organization who will go out of their way to fix problems, and when they've taken care of it, and see that it's a continuing problem in their unit, try to get it fixed so the next guy doesn't get fucked over like the rest of us have.

I'm saying try to find those people and once you find them connect them to the folks in your unit, as a minimum. I used to keep a file of gouge for different situations with names of folks on the paste eater units who were actually excellent cobblers and could get things done. At least that's a min run attempt at trying to make it easier on the next guy coming through the target area.

[capt4fans]

no one did. You're taking every comment a little too personal. You're not being attacked, at least by me. Nor am I trying to patronize you. I'm just trying to pass advice.

Yes, I did.

I'm saying try to find those people and once you find them connect them to the folks in your unit, as a minimum. I used to keep a file of gouge for different situations with names of folks on the paste eater units who were actually excellent cobblers and could get things done. At least that's a min run attempt at trying to make it easier on the next guy coming through the target area.

No, I'm not taking it too personal. I shot one message back to Learjet for his dumbass comment, and then I get attacked.

I've tried to fix the process at my base. After 4 years of continually getting shitty service at it, I've pretty much given up. Next base starts with a clean slate. I don't hold a grudge against any particular section AF wide. Each base has it's own crappy sections. If I end up back at LR, then I'm happy. They've had the best finance section I've ever dealt with. My current base, sucks donkey dick. Sorry but that's the truth.

Rainman, totally agree on the last point. But without beating a dead horse, there is no such person that I've found at my base's finance section. Other places, I've got names and know the people who can get something done quickly if I need them to jump through hoops.

[Finance_Guy]

As he's in-processing, some enterprising young Finance troop says to himself "Hey, this guys a flyer but he hasn't gotten flight pay in five years...I'll fix that right now". In one paycheck, something like $50,000 gets dumped into TSP. And then Finance realizes their mistake and essentially stops paying him altogether to recoup the $50,000.

I'm sure that's not quite how it went down. Finance would have required a document from the HARM--they just don't make up entitlements and post them to the pay record. There has to be a source document. 2nd, there's a limit as to how much can go into TSP and $50k exceeds that. TSP contributions cannot be distributed retroactively.