So will W crews expand and get new quals, or will it be the current gunpig crews who get these planes?

There are guys here who are getting "W-qual-ed" from our unit. Don't expect this to be a quick process, though, regardless of what timeline is proposed.

Rant time: One of these days "they" will live up to the promises about how awesome the training here will be and less restrictive. The fact that the only two ranges for gunships have to be deconflicted with a miriad of other players, essentially making them LESS available than the ranges on Eglin is, in this man's opinion, a FAIL.

Sleepy time.

So will W crews expand and get new quals, or will it be the current gunpig crews who get these planes?

W crews only, AFSOC said no gunship guys to the W except for the few involved in mods/training support.

EDIT: for clarity

Edited June 4, 200916 yr by Vat_69

W crews only, AFSOC said no gunship guys to the W except for the few involved in mods/training support.

EDIT: for clarity

Ok, W crews are made up of Talon types right? Now they won't let any experienced Gunship guys into the unit? Guys with experience doing Gunship things? Good call. Hope that goes well dumbasses.

That's because having a gun makes you a gunship on paper, which is what this is really all about in the end. Can you say recap?

So the aircraft that were originally combat loss replacements for Talons are now going to become gunships...funny how things work out.

Rant time: One of these days "they" will live up to the promises about how awesome the training here will be and less restrictive. The fact that the only two ranges for gunships have to be deconflicted with a miriad of other players, essentially making them LESS available than the ranges on Eglin is, in this man's opinion, a FAIL.

It's not that they've tried valiantly and simply failed to deliver on the promise, it's just that the promise was always a trumped up carrot at the end of a stick that didn't exist. Of course everybody who it affects always knew the carrot didn't exist, but it was enough to give some (just some) bogus credibility to the plan among the decision makers.

It's inevitable, no matter how hard the operators struggle to make it work, that it will negatively affect training/currency/competency, and I hope that the people who made this happen can carry the burden of knowing that real people downrange on the ground will suffer as a result.

That reality taking a backseat to political motives makes me physically ill.

So the aircraft that were originally combat loss replacements for Talons are now going to become gunships...funny how things work out.

Reference above post.

It's not that they've tried valiantly and simply failed to deliver on the promise, it's just that the promise was always a trumped up carrot at the end of a stick that didn't exist. Of course everybody who it affects always knew the carrot didn't exist, but it was enough to give some (just some) bogus credibility to the plan among the decision makers.

It's inevitable, no matter how hard the operators struggle to make it work, that it will negatively affect training/currency/competency, and I hope that the people who made this happen can carry the burden of knowing that real people downrange on the ground will suffer as a result.

That reality taking a backseat to political motives makes me physically ill.

I don't understand the need to spin this THAT negatively. SOCOM has a requirement and it isn't CLR Talon type aircraft. Okay, now they are trying something new, this modular system goes well beyond just a gun dudes, the rest is still class. So bringing gunship guy into the unit isn't necessary in the eyes of the decision makers. I neither agree or disagree. Besides what do you do with a squadron of dudes that have been flying these aircraft for over a year now? It only makes sense to train them up as the planes are mod-ed. PM me if you have questions.

edited for clarity

Edited June 5, 200916 yr by Vat_69

There are guys here who are getting "W-qual-ed" from our unit. Don't expect this to be a quick process, though, regardless of what timeline is proposed.

Rant time: One of these days "they" will live up to the promises about how awesome the training here will be and less restrictive. The fact that the only two ranges for gunships have to be deconflicted with a miriad of other players, essentially making them LESS available than the ranges on Eglin is, in this man's opinion, a FAIL.

Sleepy time.

They sold us a dead mule on the range thing. Gen. Wooly said we would own the range, ha.

The Wombats could get the best of both worlds. Doing fun shit with the Herk and blowing stuff up, which is fun too. Who, on this board, didn't like to blow stuff up up when they were a kid?

How would you feel if your mission was completely changed over night and they started bolting weird sh!t on your planes and said by the way everything you know....forget it?

I guess you've never dealt with the Cobra Ball or other BIG SAFARI projects...

I guess you've never dealt with the Cobra Ball or other BIG SAFARI projects...

Nice call.

Nice call.

Thanks!

Figured someone had to get a professional zinger in there.

What can I say...she's my kind of girl

Fat and loud with 3 hard shafts hanging off her?

Fat and loud with 3 hard shafts hanging off her?

Kinda sounds like that triple team me and my boys put on your mom last night...zing!

I guess you've never dealt with the Cobra Ball or other BIG SAFARI projects...

Yea, that's 1/2 the excitement. If I was a Wombat guy I'd be freaking thrilled at the potential to put smoking holes in some bad guys (sts) along with the current MC mission sets.

Yea, that's 1/2 the excitement. If I was a Wombat guy I'd be freaking thrilled at the potential to put smoking holes in some bad guys (sts) along with the current MC mission sets.

Different excitement. At least now the Combat Wombat folks will have something to shoot back with (Sorry Cobra Ball folks...)

Yeah best of both worlds, kinda hard to beat.

Yeah best of both worlds, kinda hard to beat.

Where do I sign up?

It's bad enough that we are considered "MOUNTAINOUS TERRAIN" here and have to maintain 2000' AGL outside of approach airspace. I'll be damned if we have to be on the hose the entire damn sortie, too. Let PA do that PA thing and explain to them the importance of our training. Meanwhile, I'm going to follow the example set by the boss and keep on trucking below 10K

Edited June 11, 200916 yr by war007afa

It's bad enough that we are considered "MOUNTAINOUS TERRAIN" here and have to maintain 2000' AGL outside of approach airspace. I'll be damned if we have to be on the hose the entire damn sortie, too. Let PA do that PA thing and explain to them the importance of our training. Meanwhile, I'm going to follow the example set by the boss and keep on trucking below 10K

The locals should be banging rocks together celebrating the fact that hum of props and thud of the 105 is the only thing that is keeping their puny town(s) alive.

(whew, just landed and almost half cocked...)

Word on the street is last night's AC-130 training mission generated over 40 noise complaints from the residents of Portales, NM.

Did the internet go down? I just assumed the liberal tree huggers would be out in mass in New Mexico...

No. Instead, they opted to physically shine spotlights in the vicinity of the next night's sortie. Bullshit, straight up. Glad that "Operation Kept Cannon" was such a brilliant success. God I hate to see how so few can benefit from the plight of so many. Wouldn't want to have all that money and have to actually put up with something to earn it. IHTFP...

No. Instead, they opted to physically shine spotlights in the vicinity of the next night's sortie.

Are you kidding me???

More of Gunships stirring up the Southwest.

https://www.cnjonline.com/news/prop-34114-h...ncommentsPage=3

16th CC says get used to it.

https://www.cnjonline.com/news/become-34127...-exercises.html

A little clarification from a New Mexican.

Disclaimer: Yes, I am the guy who just chose to go to the FCO program because #1 I love the gunships and love the idea of actually feeling like I contribute to this war we are in, and #2 I love New Mexico. (Clovis...Eh...Whatever, it's a 2 hour flight in my Cessna to Albuquerque and 3 hours to great skiing in Taos.

Here is a quick lesson in New Mexico demographics: Any where north of Albuquerque and I-40 = mostly tree hugging hippies. Anywhere south of Albuquerque = Mostly hard working, flag waiving ranch types. Albuquerque itself: 50/50.

What those guys were seeing in Tucumcari was concerned people wanting to make sure that the plane was safe. It's a new mission to the locals out here, and it's going to take them a while to get used to it. The folks in Florida are used to the sound of 130's driving in circles overhead unleashing God's wrath on the Eglin range... And it won't take to long for the people here to figure out what it is, either. Don't worry about it, with time, folks will come around and figure out what is going on, and all will be well.

I am going to refrain from saying any more about the mission, or how New Mexico and the high altitude is effecting the planes because I don't know jack SQUAT about it yet. Hopefully this trip to HRT at the end of July will teach me a little more. However, I do know the people of New Mexico, and I'll stand behind them...It's like anywhere else...Some are a-holes, and they tend to be the ones to make the noise, but the majority are the kind of folks you want in your corner and the kind of folks who make America the great, diverse country it is today.

On a side note, anyone still have a house at Herbie who needs me and my dog to house sit it for a couple months while I'm in academics at KHRT? I'll pay $$$$ not to have to stay in a hotel room! Send me a PM.

Disclaimer #2: Sitting at 7000 feet MSL east of Albuquerque on vacation from Oklahoma and I forgot how quickly the margaritas work at this altitude. I'm sure you guys will let me know if I was out of line here...

Edit: Geography.

Edited June 19, 200916 yr by discus