brock

The hospitals are staffed with US and NATO military docs. Some active some reserve. The relationship will very from FOB to FOB. If the hospital is located on the same FOB and close to the unit, the relationship is usually pretty strong. The Army medevac at Bagram is located within a sand wedge of the hospital so our medics had a great relationship with the Docs and nurses. When Pedro would come into our ramp , they'd drop off the patient and usually be back out to the aircraft within ten minutes. Then they repo to the other side of the airfield.

I read that Pedro had closed the doors in the location they filmed. That leaves only two locations. I know one is Pedro only( no Dustoff). I think you have to insert the drama with the general public. Having flown over 250 mission in the east, I can only think of about 10 that were seat cushions sucking worthy. Not sure what type of ICS the G model has, but in the our HH-60 we have private so you can't hear what the guys in the back are doing. When things were really going south our guys would just tell we need to get home fast.

My data might be dated, but in 09 our guard unit owned RC South and East for a better part of the year. Then 82nd CAB came in and took over the south. I was in the East at Bagram. Had three pedro units rotate through while we were there. I can say that our ratio of missions to Pedro exceeded 8 or 9 to one. WX, low illum and Hot LZ's were not a determing factor for us. things with the active Army are probably a little different. The altittudes flown by us is based off of threat. Not how cool it looks.

This is what I ment about marketing themselves. Pedro has a very small footprint in OEF. Current Army medevac assets exceed Pedro around eight or nine to one. I'm sure there aren't to many Army PAO types out there who are courting Nat/Geo or any other media. I'm sure the Air Force had a hand in getting this the show off the ground. I'm sure they had very little say in Powers Booth being a fighter pilot in "Red Dawn".

Ok, better than the Army.

Simply put, the Air Force does a great job of marketing itself. I'm sure NAT/GEO has a pretty good editing team as well. Having flown dustoff in both big RC's our pedro counterparts flew a pretty small portion of the missions. Not sure if that has changed. Pedro's participation in the mission has put some pressure on the Army to possibly change the way we do things in medevac. And I'm talking more than removing red crosses and making all 68W( flight medics) EMT-P, which is already happening. Regardless of who's flying the mission, these guys are doing some pretty amazing stuff. I made it a point to never look back. A little Vicks under the nose does wonders as well. Unfortunately the guys in the back, be it medic, PJ, gunner, Crew Cheif or Flight Engineer don't have that choice. And I know that what they see weighs heavy on all of them. I'm happy to see someone from the community getting their well desrved props.

The MH-60M doesn't have the 701D engines. It uses the YT706 which produces a lot more shaft horse power. I haven't seen a problem with the 701D either but they just aren't strong enough for the operating weight of a MH/HH model. When I say HH I mean the AF SAR version. The Army HH guys would probably prefer something with a a little more power.

What is the general feeling in the community? It seems like the 101 or 92 would be a good fit. Of course that is in a perfect world. If the Air Force goes all in with some version of the Mike model they need to look at what the 160th is using for a piower plant. The HH-60M's the regualr Army has are starting to see some power issues.

Well this has turned into a big thread jack. All I'm saying is if it doesn't concern you _____ ( fill in the blank), then stay in your lane. Read the shoe clerk thread on this sight. Better yet, read Quad A from a few months ago. In the NCO section there is a rant on how my ( aviators) standards in the aircraft will somehow suffer if my uniform isn't worn to standard. I guess at over 5000 hours TT and 1000 plus combat time I've just gotten real lucky. Certain communities in the Army don't participate on the " rat turd pole vaulting team", they have bigger fish to fry. The rest of the army, Aviation in particualr could learn a few things from them. I toed the party line during my 15 years on active duty. I got out two days before I was to pin on W-4. I figured I'd rather buy time back and work for the federal government and not have to deal with that crap fulltime. Rant/thread jack complete. Good on the Air Force bubbas for getting something they asked for in certain communities.

TQ, Not to get into a pissing contest but my point is this: the Air Force has it's own TFDU. They should then have guidlines to how it is worn. As an Army aviator you should be well aware of some SGM, usually of the aviation variety getting into your s%#t about how you wear your A2CU. As you now there was no real quidlines for it until ALARACT 177/2010 came out. About 4 years after the fact. My point being some SGM or anyone with a few days in the Army should be able to tell the difference between and Air Force and Army bubba, be it the leather name tag on the uniform, the flag on the left side or if that isn't enough the US Air Force over the left pocket.

Uhhello, Pretty typical of an army Segeant Major. That is their lot in life. Are you guys wearing our version or the Drifire version with leather name tags?

I'm curious as to what Army guys give two shizats about this? Is it fellow aviators or some ground guys? In the Army the aviators worst enemy is the Sargent Major. They want our A2CU to look as much like the ground uniform as possible. So morale patches and other such acutraments are frowned apon. The active duty unit my guard medevac was attached to hated how we wore our uniforms. My advice to you guys is put as much stuff on the Multi Cam flight suit as possible and tell the big Sarge to beat feet when he gets into your kitchen. By the way, are you guys wearing the Drifire version? Seems like a superior product to the Army A2CU.

Some time around May 2nd maybe?

The bottom line with both of these communities is that they will do whatever it takes to get you. Their respective services should do the same for them. I'd like to see the Army empower the flight crews a little more and get rid of the cross. Better training is on the way but that has been an uphill battle. Although I'm not that familar with RQS community, I do know they recieve some pretty top notch training. I fly with a few former PJ's and I know their pipline is no joke. What the Air Force needs to do next is get them some new aircraft. Just becuase they aren't going cross FLOT to get a downed aircrew doesn't mean it won't happen.

I know seems like a stretch, but why not just give the program back to the Army. I know that Congress had mentioned that the MC-12 go to the Army for TF ODIN. Why not let the Air Force keep that mission and the airframes and give up the C-27 to The Army. Send Guard guys down to Georgia and have the Air Force train them up as IP's, FE's or Loadmasters.

There have been some positive changes to the Medevac community over the last few years , but obviously more needs to change. After I returned from OEF in 09 I attended the Medical Evacution Conference. Two of the biggest points of contention were, getting rid of the redcross and making all flight medics EMT-P ( paramedics). When we confronted the MSC laedership and asked why Pedro was operating without the redcross and weapons. They essentially denied that it was happening. MSC officers are the most territorial lot I've every know. They see the redcross as their security planket to keep those aircraft under their control. That article was dead on with that. As a guard unit, over 90% of our medics are paramedics. Some our RN's and 18D types ( SF medic ). The survival rate amongst our saves was to high to ingnore. Next year all Army flight medics will be trained to the paramedic standard. While deployed we launched about as fast or faster than the times Hella-Copter stated above. But that is a guard unit where 4000 hr. PIC's was not uncommon. The article probably should have read " Bureaucracy Fails" becuase that is about the only thing that ever keeps medevac from launching. Not the crews. The part of the article that was laughable was the part about Army aircraft not being to able to fly some missions. For anyone who's flown Medevac, Army or Air Force knows the difference on limitations of UH60L/M and HH-60G. The L and the M have power for days. The G, not so much. Not to take anything away from the Pedro's. But it seems like there is this notion of Army Medevac turing down the hard missions. Medevac crews have their share of Silver Stars, DFC's and even a 14 German Gold Crosses for Valor. The second highest German medal.

True. But the Army is as much to blame. How many times does it take you to realize sticking your finger in the light socket hurts? This goes way beyond the C-27 and the MC-12. The Army lost the same battle in the 60's. As an Army Aviator with 18 years of service this seems like the norm for the for us. The guys who really get the Big green weenie are the C-23 guard bubbas.

At least Pedro gets to fly with guns. Give Big blue some credit for that. The Army is still caught in the past with it's medevac doctrine.

Minus the Fenstrom tail rotor it looks just like the Comanche. I wonder if the rest of the airframe followed the same lines or it was just the tail boom back that followed the design?

We flew these guys for close to a year. Studs to say the least.

It seems like this is more of an Air Force, Navy and Army problem. I'm still trying to figure out the NWU. I'm curious as to how coin has been made off of these failed uniforms.

I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that most of this is a total waste of money.The whole two piece flight suit is fine. Leave the option for both. But my gripe is the fact that the Army has to have a a different one. Why can't everyone wear the same one? Is the Air Force two piece one color or is it the same pattern as the ABU? Make a DOD standard two piece and leave it at that.

The whole thing is pretty much out of hand. I can't speak for the Air Force, but the Army is out of control. I went through flight school in the early 90's and the BDU/DCU seemed to work for everybody. The one piece bag also seemed to work. Now everyone has to have their own special uniform. The Army has realized the f-up they made with UCP and have adopted the multicam for OEF. They have gone one step further and developed the " family of cam." which will be three different uniforms and and countless dollars figuring out what the three will be. The Army will then have to develop a flight suit version like we did with the A2CU. The mulicam version is due out this month. Madness. Someone needs to be held accountable.

Busdriver, I though the article was b.s. as well. Peters is a wind bag and very myopic in his thinking. In a perfect world we would all have the best equipment. But we don't live in a perfect world. The current fight is very Marine/Army centric and people like Peters feel those forces should be the ones getting the resources. And for the most part we have. He has failed to mention that the Marines have are recieving V-22's, H-1Z/Y's for their helo fleet. The Air Force needs fighters, a new tanker and CSAR platform. Which one should be the priority. I guess that was the input I was looking for since all of those platforms are represented. Everybody has made sacrafices in both AOR's. I've flown over 1000 hrs in both OEF and OIF. Most of that being medevac. I have the names of those who didn't make it home on my blackberry. On that list are a number of AF personel to include an F-15E crew from Bagram.

Saw this on another site. Was wondering what most of you guys thought. New York Post April 13, 2005 Clashing Military Cultures By Ralph Peters Last month, I sat in the office of Col. Jon "Dog" Davis, a veteran Marine aviator. While at war, the Corps' pilots had seen a rise in their accident rate. Davis was determined to do something about it. I wanted to be sympathetic, so I said, "Well, you're flying some very old aircraft." Davis, a taut, no-nonsense Marine, looked me in the eye and said, "They may be old, but they're good. That's no excuse." As commander of the Marine Aviation Weapons and Tactics Squadron 1 out in Yuma, Ariz., Davis could have nodded and gone along, blaming the jets and helicopters. But he's a Marine. And Marines don't make excuses. They do their best with what the taxpayers give them. And their best is pretty damn good. Contrast that with a recent conversation I had with two Air Force generals. I had written columns critical of the platinum-plated F/A-22, the most expensive fighter in history and an aircraft without a mission. So the Air Force decided to lobby me. Those two generals spun the numbers until the stone-cold truth was buried under a mantra of "air dominance," imaginary combat roles and financial slight-of-hand. Still, I wanted to be fair. I took them seriously and investigated their claims. Not one thing they said held up under scrutiny. Morally bankrupt, the Air Force is willing to turn a blind eye to the pressing needs of soldiers and Marines at war in order to get more of its $300-million-apiece junk fighters. With newer, far more costly aircraft than the Marines possess, the Air Force pleads that it just can't defend our country without devouring the nation's defense budget. Meanwhile, Marine aviators fly combat missions in aging jets and ancient helicopters, doing their best for America — and refusing to beg, lie, cheat or blame their gear. I had gone out to Yuma to speak to Dog Davis' Marines about future war. The truth is they should have been lecturing to me. There is nothing more inspiring than being around United States Marines (yes, a retired Army officer wrote that). The Corps does more with its limited resources than any other branch of government. The Marines are a bargain rivaled only by our under-funded Coast Guard. Even the military installations are different. A Marine base is well-maintained and perfectly groomed, but utterly without frills. Guest quarters are Motel 6, not the St. Regis. Air Force bases are the country clubs of la vie militaire. Meanwhile, the Air Force twiddles its thumbs and dreams of war with China. Its leaders would even revive the Soviet Union, if they could. Just to have something to do. If you go into the Pentagon these days, you'll find only half of the building is at war. The Army and Marine staffs (the latter in the Navy Annex) put in brutal hours and barely see their families. The Navy, at least, is grappling with the changed strategic environment. Meanwhile, the Air Force staff haunts the Pentagon espresso bar and lobbies for more money. The Air Force hasn't forgotten how to fight. But it only wants to fight the other services. Recently, the blue-suiters have been floating one of the most disgraceful propositions I've ever encountered in Washington (and that's saying something). I heard the con directly from one of the Air Force generals who tried to sell me on the worthless F/A-22. The poison goes like this: "The Air Force and Navy can dominate their battle space. Why can't the Army and Marines?" Let me translate that: At a time when soldiers and Marines are fighting and dying in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, the Air Force shamefully implies that our ground forces are incompetent, hinting that, if the Air Force ran the world, we'd get better results. How low can a service go? Not a single Air Force fighter pilot has lost his life in combat in Iraq. But the Air Force is willing to slander those who do our nation's fighting and dying. As for the vile proposition itself, well, it's easy to "dominate your battle space" if you don't have anyone to battle. Our fighter-jock Air Force doesn't have an enemy (Air Force special-ops and transport crews, as well as ground-liaison personnel, serve magnificently — but the generals regard them as second-class citizens). While courage is certainly required, Air Force and Navy combat challenges are engineering problems, matters of physics and geometry. Our Army and Marines, by contrast, face brutally human, knife-fight conflicts that require human solutions. The Air Force is about metal. The Marines and Army deal in flesh and blood — in problems that don't have clear or easy solutions. Hey, if the Air Force knows of a simple, by-the-numbers way to win the War on Terror, combat insurgents in urban terrain and help battered populations rebuild their countries, the generals in blue ought to share the wisdom. (They've certainly been paid enough for it.) But the Air Force doesn't have any solutions. Just institutional greed. Their strategy? Trash our troops. Lie about capabilities and costs. Belittle the genuine dangers facing our country, while creating imaginary threats. Keep the F/A-22 buy alive, no matter what it takes. A little while ago I wrote that our Air Force needed to be saved from itself. Now I'm no longer sure salvation's possible. If you want to see how to fly and fight, call in the Marines. Ralph Peters is the author of "Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace."