di1630
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Posts posted by di1630
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BFM teaches broad spectrum of skills and has been directly used in recent combat. Saying the last instance of BFM was a guns kill in Vietnam is complete bullshit.
Agreed on the skills part, now back up your instances of BFM. I gave you in my opinion the most notable...F-15 turning with Fulcrums in GW1.
Are there others in a valid Air v Air war like we practice to that I’m missing?
Danger41 pretty much connected the dots: people arguing the non-importance of form land vs fatal accidents and then scoffing the lack of use of BFM vs accidents.
I’m just telling you to back up your argument man vs throwing insults at whoever the “AETC warriors are”
If it BS, make your case. I can admit if I’m wrong and not too old to learn.
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It’s evident you haven’t seen the HUD tape, and don’t know of what went on in Syria. I doubt you’re going to find any fighter pilot actually doing the job from this century who will agree with you that merging with aircraft and maneuvering isn’t BFM. I also wasn’t aware you could take min range missile shots and not have maneuvered yourself into a WEZ.
Maneuver in relation to the bandit is like one of the key aspects of BFM gospel, written everywhere, that is recited like a cult by air to air guys.
Easy there Francis. No, disclaimer I haven’t seen the HUD. But let’s be real it’s a Su-22. If we justify BFM training for a super hornet shooting down 3rd gen fighter-bombers...that’s not a solid argument. I’d expect any IFF level trainee student to handle that mismatch of weapons/maneuverability.
It’s just like my opinion man. But maybe I’ll seek out that video. Cheers
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At that point it was BFM. If you are looking outside maneuvering in relation to another aircraft, I’d argue you are past the intercept.
Besides, you just let Fat Amy carry you around.
I get what you guys are saying, I was mostly playing devils advocate with the argument parallels but...
Now if dudes want to argue “turning” in relation to another aircraft is BFM, that’s an entirely different thread and I’m happy to engage.
I tend to believe that BFM is maneuvering to a WEZ to employ.
When I was in the MERV I had to turn in relation to a Syrian jet, I didn’t consider it anything other than Deconfliction.
Does a F-18 v SU-24 engagement cut it as justification for the combat importance of BFM? I’d argue no.
Last real turning I know of was in GW1 with Eagles v a Fulcrum and that was semi legit but 30 yrs ago.
Oh and I’m 100% for practicing BFM. I’ll never emphasize it like some advocate but the skills learned in BFM go FAR beyond training to employ weapons.
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I’d argue that you need to watch the Navy F-18-Syrian Su engagement, and really learn anything about what ops were like in Syria. BFM isn’t just going for guns, and ROE often requires a visual identification and signaling on guard/headbutt before engaging. Getting close to, merging, and even shooting down not so friendly aircraft has been an occurrence in the very recent past.
Now, while fun to do, I have never seen a legit necessity of a form landing.
Semi good points....however not BFM. Tactical intercepts...maybe.
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Fighter pilots occasionally die practicing BFM. BFM is a vital skill-set that you can't exchange for a safer one.
Interesting statement.
If I said F-16’s shouldn’t practice BFM because the risk of a collision far outweighs the likelihood that it will see BFM based on history and future trends, what would you argue?
Keep in mind last USAF gun kill was 1975.
Isn’t it essentially the same? Form landings haven’t been needed in many years and probably won’t be in the future.
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Buckle up kids. 5 yrs of an airline slump means good retention and if you thought big blue gave less than two f-cks about treating your time and family well before when people could bail, now watch as people have no options.
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Heard United is furloughing 30% starting 1 Oct. 5,000 pilots.
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I’ve done 100s upon 100s of form landings. Not once was it actually required. I never had issues with them in any jet...but...
That being said, in my 19 yrs and 3500+ hours, the closest I ever came to (perceived) dying in an aircraft was a T-38 form landing on the wing where the lead student flared high and slow and my student tried to follow. IPs took the jets and both of us went around in AB, I tried to just keep the gear from going through the wings and touched down, the other jet stayed airborne but veered towards us almost hitting us. Really scary, we both came in the sq white faced.
I just don’t find the juice worth the squeeze on this.
Form low approaches to closed in sequence.....90% of the training...6.9% of the risk.
Valid and smart trade-off.
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Not sure where to put this but if you want to read about how your USAF leadership works...this is a great example.
>>Yep, there were concerns. “All shit broke loose,” Negrete said. The opposition was strongest in the office of Welsh, the Air Force chief of staff. “It was an immediate ‘no, no way, get rid of this, take the hard drives away from these boys, delete this,’ ” Negrete recalled.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/05/08/a-10-documentary/#7e80896725d9
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A lot more stabile now. VAs have been 2.75-3.25, VA jumbos have been 3.25-3.5, conforming conventional to include high balance 30yrs 3.25-3.375, and conventional 15s 2.625-2.875. All depends on Wall St’s flavor of the day and all the normal variables. Conventional jumbos, investment property mortgages, and cash outs are still out of favor with investors. Bottom lines rates are great for normal purchases and refi’s.
I just hit my 6 mo window to refinance a VA...what’s the best way to monitor and check when I could lock in a lower rate?
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To continue the thread hijack, when guys go through PIT, are you given any instruction/academics on the fundamentals of instruction? Or is it still “fear, sarcasm, and ridicule”?
It used to, not sure today. But let’s be real, you can’t teach a lifelong jackass to be a good IP. The good IP’s probably always had their traits that made them good IP’s (minus the actual technical skills)
Just like leadership, IP’s come from experience and there are quite a few predetermined traits (patience, personality, demeanor when under stress/frustration, ability to empathize with a student..etc)
I’ve know some smart dudes who were awesome pilots that just weren’t great IP’s because of their personality.
Let’s add that instructing a WIC student probably requires a different demeanor than a T-6 pre-solo so sometimes we just don’t get the right people in the right places.
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UPT sucks.
Experiences vary and are in many cases based on who your leadership/IP’s are and sq environment.
Sadly the USAF struggles with IP’s “teaching” vs “evaluating” in its training at all levels from what I’ve seen.
We’ve probably all had the rides where you are relaxed and flying well with a good IP who has molded a proper instructional environment vs flying with the IP that thinks he’s there to just find your every mistake and hammer you for it.
Flying CAN be challenging/stressful AND enjoyable. Leave it to the USAF to screw it up though.
I haven’t enjoyed a single UPT/PIT/FTU/TX course yet but I also use the sub-par USAF experience to make a better environment when I’m instructing.
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Rumor has it that Banzai flight has the highest washout rate among all 4 UPT bases. Those few that make it thru on average receive their 13th assignment choice.
Just kidding man. With IP turnover at UPT, how a flight is for one class can be 180 out a month later with a new flight commander or IP makeup.
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Except for Helos. Gotta save those 75 annual T-6 slots for the fixed wing track that is already overloaded.
Do helo guys not go thru T-6s?
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Some dudes all arguing for training better aviators....well damn, let’s just buy some twin engine props with shitty avionics. CRM...check...non centerline thrust...check...high workload....check.
We need pilots to have suitable training for their military future.
I take fighter guys flying in small planes all the time. It’s a complete sh-tshow from basic handling to even managing airspace and traffic pattern. Different skill set, these guys are all 2,000+ hrs have flown multiple fighter types in sh-t weather all over the world.
So I don’t buy that attaining good pilot skills are universally transferable just based on a planes being complex and tough to fly.
We are teaching military pilots specific skills.
That’s why we do T-6’s, to teach military discipline, rules and basics. Everyone gets a baseline military flying education.
After that, it needs to be tailored better.
Does a F-35 pilot need to see legacy IFF like the F-16/15C pilot? I’d argue no. Take it further, does an A-10 pilot need to fly T-38s? Should B-1/B-52 be T-1 track.
All feasible I think.
For the MAF, Im not sure. But my gut and experience tells me if we can cut T-38 stuff lightly, we can cut T-1 stuff heavily. It should not take more flight training to learn instruments in a crew jet than in a single seat.
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Yeah, until we get plunged into a war with one of the big 4 near peers, then big Air Force would pray our pilots had those skills.
Which outdated skills are going to make the difference in a near peer war?
I bet the T-37 RMI is more EMP resistant than a MFD...damn, if only we taught RMI fix to fixes like 1959-2004.
If only I had a dollar for every time over my 19 years that people justified their arguments by saying “Well when we fight China”
If the deciding factor for winning a near peer war is bombers flying the radar pattern or fighters needing more wing work, we are in trouble.
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Experience flying in general that has been reduced, to include the radar patterns you downplayed. Reductions in those things reduces the abilities of the average student, and in the B-52 let’s face it we’re getting something less than that.
Is the B-52 mission being hindered because of inability to perform well in the radar pattern?
I simply disagree that more T-38 pattern work is a worthwhile task that translates to what communities need, especially crew/heavy communities.
I think B-52 sims would be a better skill builder.
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The B-52, for one, flying wise has roughly zero changes. It has new mission things, but the flying portion is still almost identical to what is in museums. There are reasons flying certificates have flying hour mins; average students need a certain amount of actual flight time.
What could we add at UPT to help a B-52 pilot?
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What if the skill we want is more time flying so they have experience?
Edit: it is awesome that some corners of the AF have seen gains in safety through newer airframes and/or upgrades, but some of our airframes flight safety wise are almost exactly the same as 40 years ago. Reduction in UPT flight time in the seat is kicking cans down the road, cool VR things or not.
You’ll need to convince me a single airframe that isn’t highly upgraded vs it’s 40yr old version adding to safety and ease of flying.
Not to mention mission sets are probably more aided by technology than stick/rudder skills.
Those critical skills needed through flying won’t be gained at UPT doing wing work and tac form in a -38 nor Radar patterns in a T-1.
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I'd be in support of "changes" if that's what was actually going on. But we are seeing predominantly cuts, not changes.
If the priority was to update the training to improve quality, we wouldn't see this sudden decrease in overall events and flight hours. We would see that time put towards teaching other, newer skills. Big blue's priority is to make more pilots.. faster.
We can cut stuff....because flying has gotten easier to do safely and more efficiently than 10-20 years ago plus many critical skills from back in the day are no longer critical and worth the investment.
What skills would you like to swap in for the ones cut?
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Embrace the changes people. Technology has improved safety, efficiency and lethality therefore we can update our training to match.
Half the stuff I grew up getting hammered for learning to fly fighters 18 years ago is N/A today.
That’s the stuff that is getting cut and I support it.
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Anyone know much about oil ETF’s? USO...I’ve lost my ass but you guys think that with eventual oil rebounds they could be a long term investment?
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How did the fuel truck not blow up? Even with the warhead not exploding I’m surprised that the exhaust didn’t ignite the fuel fumes that had to have been present in the tank.
Warhead probably didn’t have time to arm. No idea on the fines in the tank. Impressive video
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Fingertip and Formation Landings
in General Discussion
Posted
So I honestly haven’t even been too interested in this but maybe I should check out the classified info. I’m familiar with the basics enough to know some eyebrows were raised.
To me there is a HUGE difference between BFM vs a SU-30 type air to air fighter that you merged with because you were out of missiles and the risk level was extreme so you had to BFM...and....
A 4+ gen fighter shooting down a A/G optimized 1960’s airframe design that could put up little to no fight and could have been shot down by any supporting fighter within many many miles.
Yeah, to me the difference is pretty big. Not pretty big but huge, as in Yuuuge.
Maybe I’m behind on my SU-22 threat knowledge and the ones In Syria are rocking advanced EW suites, countermeasures and aesa’s paired with only the most advanced all aspect IR missiles.
When I had to adjust my path to avoid one, I certainly didn’t piss my pants thinking the end was near with my finger on the stores Jett button.
Maybe I should have.
Not saying you guys are wrong. Not saying knock off BFM. I simply do not believe it’s as relevant in 2020 as some people think it is.
Now Stby reticle dive bombing on the other hand...who’s up for cranking some mils? Bring that sh-t back 100% fo sho. And glass cockpits are for p-ssies....and so is GPS...and dayalinks datalinks. You’ll thank me when we raid Beijing.
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