No One

Well given that all the TDS experts on here have gone completely quiet on here since the MOU and the VP just confirmed we've lifted sanctions on Iran effective today in return for literally nothing it's certainly a combo 1, 2, and 5.

I love when y'all keep pulling the "hatred for this admin" card when legit points and sources are brought up. Guess when you can't attack the point your only option left is to attack the person. (1.1) Traded religious leadership for hardline military junta. (1.2) Validated ballistic and drone capabilities to close the strait of hormuz and harass economically and strategically nation in the ME seen as aiding the war against them. (2.1) FON existed prior to the conflict for decades. You don't get to claim FON as a victory when it existed all the way up until we began a conflict. (2.2) FON is a bold claim when you have 3rd party countries paying tolls for passage and months of ships bottled up. (3.1) Iran didn't possess a nuke before. Also didn't operation midnight hammer just last year already claim this? (3.2) No agreement or limitation on future nuke development. Likely the conflict has encouraged Iran to pursue one more urgently.

And yet somehow y'all don't care about the thousands of Americans dying yearly from the lack of proper Healthcare, shelter, or food in this country. Or millions suffering after we cut usaid plus our loss of global soft power. There are so many better things we could've spent these funds with a better roi in terms of $ for American lives. It's not orange man bad. It's not Iran good. It's the fact that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. And now after having squeezed it anyways, we're in a worse off position than we started in by any measure of regional status quo be that Jul 15, May 18, Oct 23, or Jan 26.

No I mean the 13 attributable directly to a conflict we didn't need to be in. That were only in harms way because this admin chose to put them there. In any other timeline they would not be dead. How many times do we need to get our hand bitten in the middle Eastern oil jar before we stop blaming them and stop sticking our hand into it? The escalation was only bound to happen because we stopped any attempts at diplomacy, gave it not even a half passed effort (did you see the professionals we sent to negotiate?), and have proven as a nation we can't be relied upon to stick to any deals we make for more than 1 admin. As a nation we aren't reliable. As a side note considering 5 of those 13 were in a midair accident, it's a stretch to blame Iranian regime for them. Are we also going to blame them for the 8 that just died in the buff crash?

Which of y'all wants to explain this 4d chess move to me? Or can we only do that in a scif? "Below is the text of the 14-point draft memorandum, as seen by Bloomberg News. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States, together with their allies in the current war, declare upon the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding an immediate and permanent end to the war on all fronts, including Lebanon, and undertake that from now on they will not launch any hostile action against each other, and will refrain from the threat or use of force against each other. The final agreement will confirm the provisions of this Article and the remaining Articles. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States undertake to respect each other’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and to refrain from interfering in each other’s internal affairs. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States undertake to negotiate and reach a final agreement within a maximum period of 60 days, extendable by mutual consent. Immediately upon the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, the United States Lift the naval blockade and prevent any interference or obstruction against the Islamic Republic of Iran, and restore traffic within a maximum of 30 days to its full capacity; the traffic of ships shall be proportional to the pre-war volume of traffic on the part of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States also undertakes to withdraw its forces from the surrounding areas within 30 days after the final agreement. Upon signing this Memorandum of Understanding, the Islamic Republic of Iran will immediately take steps to ensure that the movement of merchant ships from the Persian Gulf to the Sea of Oman and vice versa is resumed within 30 days to the pre-war volume, taking into account the need for the removal of technical obstacles and the neutralization of mines by Iran. The United States undertakes, together with its regional partners, to create a comprehensive plan agreed upon by both parties for the rehabilitation and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran, While ensuring financing of at least $300 billion. The implementation mechanism of this plan, as part of the final agreement, will be formulated within 60 days. The United States commits to ending, on a schedule to be agreed upon as part of the final agreement, all types of sanctions currently facing the Islamic Republic of Iran, including resolutions of the United Nations Security Council and the Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and all unilateral U.S. sanctions, both primary and secondary. The Islamic Republic of Iran reiterates that it will never produce nuclear weapons. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States have agreed that the fate of enriched material and the fate of all other mutually agreed nuclear-related issues, including Iran’s nuclear needs, will be adequately addressed in a final agreement; the final agreement will confirm the provisions of this Article. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States agree that, pending a final agreement, they will maintain the status quo: Iran will maintain the status quo on its nuclear program, and the United States will not impose new sanctions on Iran or strengthen its forces in the region. The United States undertakes that immediately after the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, and until the date of the lifting of sanctions, the United States Treasury Department will issue waivers for exports of Iranian crude oil, petrochemical products and their derivatives, and all related services, including banking, insurance, transportation, and the like. The United States undertakes that, in light of the progress of negotiations towards a final agreement, frozen or restricted funds and assets of the Islamic Republic of Iran will be released and made fully available. These funds, whether held in the master account or transferred, will be used for any final beneficiary payment determined by the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran and will be fully available for use. The United States undertakes to issue all necessary permits and licenses on this basis. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States agree that an implementation mechanism will be established to oversee the successful implementation of and future commitment to the Final Agreement. Following the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, and upon receipt of assurances regarding the commencement of implementation of Articles 4, 5, 10, and 11 of this Memorandum of Understanding, and the continued implementation of these steps, the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States will enter into negotiations for a Final Agreement solely with respect to the remaining Articles. The final agreement will be approved through a binding resolution of the UN Security Council."

Ironically those 13 are also attributable to the current admin's negotiating skills. Turns out cutting the Afghan gov out of negotiations and releasing a ton of taliban results in a cluster of a withdrawal. Does it really matter if it's literal plane fulls? Currently Iran is getting additional income via "tolls" and an alleged $25B of funds from negotiations that far exceeds the release of their own funds under Obama's deal. Tbd. The $300B figure which has been verified by our own VP is allegedly gulf state funded. It isn't released "unless they perform" which sounds a lot like the old deal we had... Just with a lot more cash. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a shell game to save face and a significant chunk of funds come from the US. The conflict itself has cost taxpayers an estimated $110B+ to date. The official figure is around $50B but that doesn't account for inflationary costs (primarily fuel) associated with the war. If you want to claim I'm lying feel free to provide some sources. But at the moment we've got: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/iran-says-draft-us-deal-includes-oil-sanctions-waiver-nuclear-limits-asset-2026-06-14/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/16/jd-vance-details-us-iran-agreement-scepticism-republicans https://edition.cnn.com/2026/05/27/politics/iran-war-spending-cancelled-trainings-delayed-maintenance

I can name at least 13 directly attributable to the current admin. "Pallets of cash" conveniently ignoring that legally it was Iran's own money that had been previously locked up. And we're now looking at paying them 15x that amount immediately and 176x that amount later on. And not out of Iran's frozen funds this time but out of our own taxpayers pockets to boot. This thread is hilariously quiet while everyone waits to get their talking points on how what I outlined above is actually the checkmate move in trump's 4d chess game and not what it is at face value. Total capitulation and global embarrassment.

So setting aside the service members who died, aircraft we lost, facilities damaged, and stockpiles depleted let's see where we are at. Allies lost faith in our ability to defend them and pissed off our European allies for blind siding them. Chucked by Israel continously. Destroyed Iran's airforce and navy (as if they were ever a threat). Disrupted the global economy and validated Iran's ability to exert control over the strait and region using mines, drones, and ballistic missiles. Traded a deal that unfroze $1.7B of their cash for a deal that's going to unfreeze $25B of their casb and give them another $300B of our cash allegedly. Replaced extremist leadership with even more hardline military extremist leadership. Traded an inspected and managed uranium stockpile for unknown results but certainly not what's claimed. If the B-2s did the work they claimed last year, why are we here again? Any limitations not included in this deal. Explicitly excludes any missile program related concessions despite those on here saying that was a key flaw of Obama's deal. OH and killed a bunch of school kids making another generation or three of anti-american extremists in the region. Did we win daddy?

Did none of y'all actually read any of the article much less to the end it where it talks about methodology? I'm not a Washington Post fan but all they did was verify the validity of BDA images provided by Iran utilizing open source imagery. Iran already did the BDA themselves. WaPo didn't do a damn thing with regards to BDA other than tell us that Iran wasn't lying or faking the imagery.. Also let's be honest here. China and Russia are aiding Iran in BDA in real time. A news article weeks after the fact utilizing open source imagery isn't giving Iran anything they didn't already have.

Mission Accomplished! AP NewsTrump administration says its war in Iran has been 'termi...The Trump administration is arguing that the war in Iran has already ended because of the ceasefire that began in early April.Or uhhh terminated?

So now we're going with the "lalallaa I can't hear you" level of debate. Got it. Yes I hate Trump as a person. But I've argued the policy not the man. Weird how different conflicts can have different stances. It's almost as if you're comparing apples to oranges! Ukraine: Defensive. 0 American lives. Extremely costly for 1 of our 2 global adversaries. Important for stability in Europe. Protecting a fledgling democracy Brought new critical positioned nations into NATO. Iran: Offensive. Absurdly more expensive per day than Ukraine in 2 months (iran: $48B + $1B/day vs ukraine: $120B of $180B congressionally allocated spent in 1507 days). Costing American lives and showcasing our weaknesses to China. Disrupted global economic stability, drove inflation up again, and empowered a tier 2 adversary while alienating allies.

Enemies: War only creates further resentment and enemies. It's not going to get rid of them. How many more Iranians hate us now than 2 months ago because we've killed their friends, fathers, and children? We let the regime slaughter thousands who might have been more aligned with us 2 months ago. We're supposed to be improving and learning from the past. I don't want our country to be an imperialist nation. It is insane you believe deals should only occur if we have no other choice. War should never be the first choice. The consequences are irreversible and frankly abhorrent. We are supposed to be better than that. Do you also go over to your neighbors when his dog shits on your lawn, shoot him and take his shit because you own a gun and he doesn't? Makes us no better than the Russians. No better than an animal. Policies: Most of us arguing against this have argued nothing but facts and policies. To be met with TDS or TFS whatever you want to call it. We're writing paragraphs regarding policy and the abject failure of this admin as a whole and getting 2 sentence strawman or what about X replies. Also regarding admin consistency with what we're doing there I posted the evidence 2 pages back of the daily flip flopping. Allies: Our allies are still there. They're allientated because we've elected Trump twice. Because we've proven to be unreliable. Because we've threatened to invade them multiple times in the last year. Because the values of strength, military might, and taking what we want over diplomacy, partnership, and stability align us close with Russia than the EU. NATO: Is a defensive alliance and yes it was and is quite literally America's European insurance policy against the Soviet Union/Russia. We are the only country that's enacted it, everyone answered, and our allies all paid the price alongside us. Per capita many of them paid a higher price than we did. There is 0 proof for your claim "NATO isn't an alliance anymore, it's a European insurance policy." You're parroting a talking point and fundamentally lack an understanding of what nato is and ever was. Free-trade: The economic benefit of free trade vastly outweighs the negative loss of domestic manufacturing. We still retained high level skilled manufacturing and a lot of the rest ties nations to us in a manner which is a plus for diplomacy. If Taiwan wasn't the primary source for high end chips globally or China didn't risk crippling economic trade sanctions they'd be much more inclined to make military moves. Trade has kept the developed world significantly more peaceful than the past. Immigrants/middle class: Not the thread to discuss or begin to cover that rant. I'll just say go visit the base of the statue of liberty and read Emma Lazarus' poem “The New Colossus” laid there. Politicians: "Politicians aren't respectable war veterans anymore, they're profit-seeking sociopaths." Firstly Trump fits this quote perfectly. He's a draft dodger and has utilized his second term to 2x or more his personal wealth and appointed a cabinet full of folks doing the same. Secondly, being a war vet doesn't make magically make you more respectable or better than anyone else. How you carry yourself, treat others, your words and actions do that. Our government is better off with a spectrum of backgrounds and experience. Options: "could have had a moron who couldn't string 10 words together" Lol I'm sorry what. Have you listened or read anything trump puts out himself? Neither is the orator Obama was, but it's legitimate delusion to believe Trump is a better orator than Harris.

Ah the tried and true method of this thread. Ignore the entire substantive point by point reply and argue a selected portion with a "zinger" as if it trumps everything. Remind me @HeloDude which side "don’t want to discuss in good faith." How was their AF, navy, or missile capability a realatic and substantive threat to the US before? Especially seeing as we could remove it at anytime. The reality is you're creating a false comparison as in pre and post conflict cases the threat wasn't substantive based on empirical evidence of the results you're claiming we've achieved in only 30 days. Meanwhile in return for removing the alleged threat we've lost the following: Unquestionable control of the straight to Iran causing short and long term global economic impacts and major economic leverage. Regional soft power as we can't protect our allies from drones an missiles. Diplomatic credability in any future negotiation not just with Iran but any nation. Sanctions on Russia and Iranian oil. A massive amount of ordinance and numerous assets that will take years to replace. Alienated our closest European allies and frustrated our middle Eastern ones to back Israel. 13 dead americans, 200+ injured. TBD on the peace plan.

Sunset: Because deals can never be renewed or renegotiated. Instead of being rehashed in 30 years it was abandoned in 3. Missiles: "Capable of delivering nuclear weapons." Firstly the whole idea of the deal was they don't get a nuke so who cares? Secondly anything can deliver a nuke. A car. A plane. A fishing boat. A person. Thirdly they're a sovereign nation with some backing of some other state actors. Regardless of if any of us support them and their ideology there's only so much you can do, especially when it comes to trying to limit 1940s tech in 2010s. As we've seen today drones are a bigger threat than missiles. Regional Aggression: And control of the hormuz with a $1M toll per ship is better than decreased sanctions how exactly? Perhaps we should learn our lesson and stop diddling countries in the middle east. Weak inspection: Something is better than nothing weve had since and "weak" is an opinion. During the few years the deal was in place the inspections unequivocally worked. Iran was holding their side of the deal. Additionally inspections + intelligence is a strong combo. Past work: How exactly do you address past work? Did we do so after withdrawing from the deal? Does the current peace plan do this in any measurable form? Conventional weapons proliferation... As if we aren't equally guilty having given the taliban stingers in the 90s or humvees, guns and other equipment in 2020s. Do you expect Iran to fully disarm? Can you imagine China telling the US no nukes. Also no tomahawks. Or F-16s. Sanctions relief: Firstly they're now going for sanctions relief plus control of an international waterway with tolls extracted. That's better how? Secondly you've got to negotiate with something and act as enforcement mechanisms. If the deal didn't involve easing sanctions how do you punish violations of the terms? You didn't remove anything so you can't sanction them harder. You leave military force as the main mechanism. Which is drastic. Do you invade when they go to 2.6% vs 2.5%? Do you start bombing stuff causing fear, hate, and irreversible damage? I'd much rather be able to say "we're going to reimpose X level of sanctions until you return to compliance." If they don't, ramp it up. You still have military if truly needed. It gives you options. Seriously compare the peace plan to jcpoa and tell us a single point on which it's "better" for global stability and for the US.

For the record let's exam the last deal the US managed to negotiate in 2015. Key Aspects of the JCPOA: Nuclear Constraints: Iran agreed to reduce its installed centrifuges, cap uranium enrichment at (far below the needed for weapons), and redesign the Arak heavy-water reactor to prevent plutonium production. Sanctions Relief: The UN, US, and EU agreed to lift nuclear-related economic sanctions on Iran. Monitoring: The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was granted enhanced access and monitoring of Iranian facilities, including 25-year surveillance of uranium mines. Sounds like much better terms than were getting now. What happened to that deal? Oh right trump couldn't stand someone else's signature on it. Withdrawal: In 2018, the US withdrew under President Trump, citing limitations in the deal (e.g., sunset clauses) and re-imposed sanctions. Iran subsequently began enriching uranium to higher levels. Iran isn't going to negotiate. Last time they did in earnest, we said "lol jk" within 3 years. Then used the fact they're enriching uranium, even though we are the ones that backed of the agreement that prevented them from doing so, to bomb the shit out of them 7 years later.

100%. It's always the case. Bring paragraphs of arguments and the evidence to back it up and the only counter is "TDS. But what about Harris." 5 pages ago these guys refused to believe osint reporting we'd lost an F-15E. Now let's sweep it under the rug along with 2x MC-130s, 1x E-3, 5+ KC-135s, 1x A-10 and sky-high oil prices. Look at the backlash regarding the troops lost at abbey gate executing Trump's poorly negotiated withdrawal deal. The ability to project outrage only when the other side is at the helm is ridiculous.

Do I think the woman who had years and years of political experience and a foreign policy team that didn't consist of her immediate relatives, some real estate tycoons, and a fox news/Nat guard maj, would have done better? You can't seriously tell me that the answer to the question is anything other than yes. We wouldn't be in the conflict because diplomacy would've prevailed. If we were drawn into it anyways, we'd have more experience and stability at the helm to lead it. A person that actually could read their daily intelligence briefings, understand the levers Iran has, and work with rather than allienate allies and experts (Ukraine) to nullify their advantages. Remind me, how much was gas when Biden left office? How much is it now?

TACO Tuesday indeed. Blatant market manipulation. Next step is "defeated" Iran blowing up some more expensive equipment. Because this admin's word isn't worth the shit stained single ply trump branded toilet paper it's written on.

Crude has doubled since this kicked off, so whoever made those bets did. And whoever stole a literal boatload of Venezuelan oil and stashed it in their own personal "executive" slush fund.

The plan straight from the horses mouth: Mar 3: "We won the war." Mar 7: "We defeated Iran." Mar 8: "We must attack Iran." Mar 9: "The war is ending almost completely, and very beautifully." Mar 11: “You never like to say too ⁠early you won. We won. In the first hour it was over.” Mar 12: "We did win, but we haven't won completely yet." Mar 13: "We won the war." Mar 14: "Please help us." Mar 15: "If you don't help us, I will certainly remember it." Mar 16: "Actually, we don't need any help at all." Mar 16: "I was just testing to see who's listening to me." Mar 16: "If NATO doesn't help, they will suffer something very bad." Mar 17: "We neither need nor want NATO's help." Mar 17: "I don't need Congressional approval to withdraw from NATO." Mar 18: "Our allies must cooperate in reopening the Strait of Hormuz." Mar 19: "US allies need to get a grip - step up and help open the Strait of Hormuz." Mar 20: "NATO are cowards." Mar 21: "The Strait of Hormuz must be protected by the countries that use it. We don't use it, we don't need to open it." Mar 22: "This is the last time. I will give Iran 48 hours. Open the strait" Mar 22: "Iran is Dead" Mar 23: "We had very good and productive talks with Iran." Mar 24: "We’re making progress." Mar 24: "[Iran] gave us a present and the ⁠present arrived today, and it was a very big present, worth a tremendous amount of money." Mar 25: “They gave us a present and the present arrived today. And it was a very big present worth a tremendous amount of money. I’m not going to tell you what that present is, but it was a very significant prize.” Mar 26: "Make a deal, or we’ll just keep blowing them away." Mar 27: "We don’t have to be there for NATO." Mar 28: No major quote Mar 29: Claimed talks were progressing Mar 30: "Open the Strait of Hormuz immediately, or face devastating consequences." Mar 31: Claimed a deal was "very close" and that Iran would "do the right thing" Apr 1: "We’ll see what happens very soon." Apr 2: Repeated that a deal was likely, while warning of continued strikes if not Apr 3: "Something big is going to happen." Apr 4: Said Iran must comply "immediately" or face further consequences. Apr 5: "Open the in' Strait, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in Hell - JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah." Apr 6: "The entire country can be taken out in one night, and that night might be tomorrow night." Apr 6: "They made a proposal, and it's a significant proposal. It's a significant step. It's not good enough...they have to do certain things. They know that, they've been negotiating I think in good faith." Apr 7: "A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don’t want that ‌to ⁠happen, but it probably will." April 7: Iran cuts all diplomatic channels.

Glad they're out safe and uninjured. Osint reports lost 2 herks to the mission. Seems herks are allergic to Iran.

Herk driver. We're a bit too round and blunt to be the tip of the spear but I've gone into plenty of sketchy spots fighter guys won't ever go. In my personal opinion i's fine to joke after the fact but while the crew, now just the wso is mia I'm not going to joke about it. Iran has saber rattled occasionally every few months but never actually threatened global stability. Not even regional. They around with Israel through non state actors. Not our problem. But we poked our noses in and now it's become a regional issue and a global economic issue with no strategic goals.

Haven't seen proof of that on fox's articles. Not to mention we still have someone MIA so those "reasons" should still apply. Y'all love to blame TDS. Believe it or not many of us disapprove of these actions for multiple reasons not just because Trump's admin pulled the trigger. We take sides based on policy and beliefs not based on what our leadership tell us to parrot. Had this been a democratic pres, Israel alone, etc. I still would be disapproving for all the reasons I've stated. I'm tired of being in the middle East. I'm tired of spending my tax dollars on excessive amounts of ordinance rather than projects at home. I'm tired of seeing generation after generation sent off to do dumb shit. And we don't have a lame "let's go Brandon" chant among other derangements if you want to get started down the TDS path. But what about the nukes? If Iran wanted to they've shown they have the capability to launch a dirty bomb and make Israel uninhabitable. They haven't. If Iran wanted to they could develop a nuke (1940s tech), they haven't. They've continually come to the negotiating table and used the "what if" as a card. Then abide by the treaties to keep their program in check. Treaties that Trump removed us from for no reason.

Y'all are ridiculous. First "it didn't happen" because the multiple reliable osint sources aren't reliable. Then after it's been confirmed by both sides it's "again?" as if it's a joke before knowing the status of the crew. I hope the MIA, potential american POW, has no idea that y'all think this is hilarious.

And yet the straits are closed by Iran doubling the price of oil, the regime is still in power, they still have ballistic missile and long range drone capabilities, and now have a POW for political purposes. Remind me how many targets did we strike in Afghanistan? Vietnam? What was the result? Strikes do not equal victory. What are our objectives here? Have they been achieved? No one knows because leadership hasn't said and I'm not sure they even know. It's not that I want this to fail but we have no business being here in the first place. We have no objectives. No means to pull out. No way to achieve meaningful objectives without a long protracted costly and likely bloody conflict. We've been at war in the middle East for decades. Can we stop wasting money, time, and lives over there and focus on home? How are we making America great again when we're slashing funding for infrastructure, Healthcare, etc. to bomb mud huts? When we're irreversibly damaging our soft power by being unreliable negotiators. Trying to bully our European allies to get involved in this. Showing we can't protect our middle Eastern allies who've given us land for bases. All against Iran. Imagine a near peer like China. We'd be screwed both in the soft and hard power spheres. They're already starting to dominate us in soft power.