Just be careful when you're exiting those IR routes up there, typically you can't get a hold of center until you've climbed a few thousand feet but they get pissy if you do so with out talking to them (technically you're only cleared up to the highest altitude of the last low level leg). It's a catch 22, so just squawk 1200 and climb to a VFR altitude until you can get a hold of them. Also, filing can be a bitch if you're taking off from a civilian field. Center also whines if you don't have entry/exit times on your flight plan and Duats won't accept them and weather brief won't put them in for you either

Perfect reason for LATN. VFR+1200+avoid some specific airspace...don't let the man hold you down! Thank God for none of this bullshit in Asia...I hate the FAA.

Eat kimchi chigae and drink 4 bottles of soju in Seoul--then go to noraebang and sing the Flintsones song wake up in an alley 4 hours later

FIFY.

In other words, hypothetically if they put the T-6 system on the Raptor, would they still have issues due to the altitude?

There are several flavors of OBOGS out there and just because they share the same name does not make them plug-and-play with all platforms, or any other platform for that matter. I've also heard the contamination thing, but that was just WOM. Either way, the problem is certainly far deeper than just simply throwing a new OBOGS in the jet (if that was even possible).

Nope, the Chinese parts in the system hadn't failed yet.

but it would be extremely beneficial to anyone involved in CSAR to have a "flow chart" of sorts to delineate what and who is required when

I bet someone on here can make that flowchart into a pretty awesome powerpoint presentation for the Generals.

What if the jet is ok (flawed minorly), we just have fostered a generation of risk adverse fighter pilots?

Really? Don't be an idiot.

Seriously, been a rough few years for the beagle bros. Glad the dudes made it out!

FIFY

Following this one simple rule would have prevented that whole Abu Ghraib business along with the Peeing Marines controversy.

And this simple rule should also be applied to TDYs...yet, some people still don't get it. Even in this day and age of facebook, email, digital cameras with wifi, etc. some dudes still don't get the concept of don't take pictures of shit you wouldn't want everyone on the internet to see. Some people were just born stupid.

It'd be a pretty easy change to just stop mailing the paper pubs and send a couple DVDs to use on a stand alone computer that you'd use to update the iPads.

According to an NGA rep last week, AMC DODAACs will completely stop receiving paper products Dec of this year. They will 100% be using DVDs / the internets to update FLIP. Who knows when this will happen for the other commands, but suspect it'll be a while for the non-heavy communities. And personally I hope to God they come up with another solution besides the ipad for fighters.

It will take SQ/OG/WG CCs with balls to do this, because right now, if they tell their bosses that they are XX% N©MR, they are afraid of getting fired. I think command opportunities in the Air Force are turning into gauntlets that people run with the sole hope of making through without getting fired. "If I can just make it two years without losing anyone/bending iron/having red cells on a spreadsheet, I can make it to school and be good..."

Couple that mentality with the type of people that are typically advancing these days, and you have yourself a huge problem.

I know that there are exceptions to the above, because I have seen them. But as much of a fresh breath of air it is to see people like that, they are the exception.

Shack.

Doesn't the FY12 RAP tasking memo make every sortie RAP? I haven't read the doc, but that is what my training guys briefed. We still have requirements for different msn sets...so I guess you could still look at the numbers and derive a dudes tactical sortie requirement.

Not the way I understand it. The instrument square can pretty much be checked with any flight, but you only get one per month. With only 8 sorties per month for Exp, it makes sense only 1 is a non-tactical counter (in theory). That leaves 7 of some tactical flavor to log. NE-MX, force support, etc. are all options. In fact the new RTM specifically prohibits logging RAP on AOS movements (despite the argument of logging TI by shooting the tanker 69 million times).

The DO is accountable but IMHBAO, that's something your target arm should be working his ass off to try to solve.

True, and I'm sure Jaded's DO is clearly getting leaned on by those above, so it's not entirely his fault. However, even in the shitty position my wing's in, neither DO or CC from either squadron has ever tried to force guys to log RAP through no-fly threats, etc. I don't know what Jaded's leadership situation is, but it sounds like there's some issues if the DO is forced to resort to that option.

And if the DO tells the squadron to log those sorties as RAP or you don't fly?

Is it more on a case-by-case basis with "those guys," i.e. log red air if they're scheduled to fly red, regardless of the fact they still got a couple BFM sets in (i.e. log BFM) or is it sq-wide and the "gear in the well = RAP" mentality no matter what? If it's the latter, then that's a shitty situation and bad on the DO.

Why would any self-respecting fighter pilot do that or tell someone else they should?

Good question. It's become even worse in the recent past with how low our sortie rate is. The "get airborne = log RAP" idea is getting stronger as people reach more and more to make squares green on some powerpoint slide. The irony is this idea is even worse now that dudes aren't even flying at a BMC rate, yet some want them to log RAP on a flight that goes out to the airspace and turns right around for wx with no tactical training accomplished (and yes, they've already logged their one instrument RAP counter for the month). All that is accomplishing is making already NCMR pilots even more NCMR, if there is such a thing...I'm sure you get my point.

Dudes need to call a spade a spade, not log bullshit RAP, and not be afraid to let big AF know how 90% of the wing is NCMR for X,Y, Z reasons. Pencil whipping the shit out of RAP only makes us worse and less lethal.

If you go back and read my earlier posts, I said I did NOT log RAP on XC's sorties, I logged COB (cost of business). Demo Safety Observer was an additional duty and I was flying plenty of RAP sorties instructing B/I/TX coursers when I was home.

Copy, my bad. Anyways, my comment was more a generic RAP comment and not really directed at you. I've just been in the XC situation before and told I needed to log RAP...yeah right.

but there are plenty of guys whipping on local flag pole sorties (logging two sorties just because you went to the tanker, even thought the AAR was per-fights, not a fight-tank-fight)...you don't have to be on a demo XC to fudge RAP.

Valid. In fact just the other day we ended up pre-vul tanking, fought ONE vul, then went home and training/scheduling said, "yeah but you tanked...so that's two RAP sorties." No it's not, now kill yourself. I even had one guy try to argue that the point of RAP was to just start the jet and take off, therefore every time you get airborne you should log RAP...he told me this after I just had a takeoff EP and landed. According to him I should log RAP for that "sortie"...retard.

Sorry but I have to call you out on this one...You were able to practice sorts on XCs? Lots of 737s flying formation inside group criteria were there?

I love the XC RAP argument: "just take a valid 120 on an airline and log it as TI." No, go fuck yourself. I'm not a complete "RAP snob" and will do my best to get some blue training when flying red air, for example, but if all I did was drive and die then RTB to an ILS...its red air. Between these two scenarios, the recent RAP cuts and MX, the bullshit logging of RAP has to end. Don't be a douche about it, but at the same time your bullshitting yourself and others if you claim you got valid, tactical training on some of the crap I've seen guys log (and in the past I've been talked into logging).

There are multiple DP tests out there besides the standard "circles" test the AF uses. I have a friend who was able to pass other DP tests and was granted a waiver. So, it is possible, but he did have a pretty difficult uphill battle. A recruiter's word is worth jack shit...don't give up.

...In the end, whatever the WG/CC's true intentions were, the Ops Group made the best out of the situation and got some awesome training and upgrades amongst all 4 squadrons!

My mind was just blown thinking about what it must be like to be at a wing that actually can produce that number of sorties...please have your MX call our MX. Sounds like an awesome day of flying and killing...well done.

We teach topics that may be spread a mile wide in width but only go an inch deep into them. In UPT, the information is both a mile wide and a mile deep.

The real question is do you guys have a bar that's a foot wide, but a mile long?

Just go to Nellis and show up at the USAF Arial Demonstration Squadron between 0700-0800 and you'll get as many rides as you want. It is what they are supposed to do.

I heard they'll even let you fly in the front seat since they're all IPs, and all that costs is an extra six pack of Zima. What a deal!

When you say "week trip," do you mean a scheduled base visit via my detachment, or travelling somewhere to visit on my own? If that latter, how would I go about scheduling this?

I mean you set it up yourself. You can probably trying calling the OSS scheduling office and talk to one of the NCOs there that deal with the incentive/fam program, but once again, they don't owe you shit. Be polite, ask the question of what week is best for THEM, what can you do to make the process easy for them (i.e. maybe you can call and set up doc appt, egress, etc. so they don't have to), etc. Again, beer or something they like for their troubles is absolutely warranted. Since you're in CA, either Luke or Klamath (no experience with them) may be the best bet for a fighter ride. If you want to get a -135 ride, the Phoenix dudes are pretty willing to do so as time/schedule allows. UPT/IFF would work the same way, but that's of course a farther travel for you.

1. Get a chamber card

2. Get your Det/cc to sign an MFR stating you are authorized a Fam flight

3. Key word fam, not incentive. This means you can more or less jump in an open backseat that's available presuming you have the pre-reqs completed (flt doc clears you, have someone teach you egress and life support has you fitted up with gear) and it works for whatever mission that jet is flying that day

An incentive ride means a flight scheduled specifically for you...do not consider this an option, as it's meant for that dude busting his ass on the line day in and day out for years on end, not some cadet.

4. Bring copious amount of beer and Jack to pay off individuals helping you out

5. You may end up getting multiple rides in a week trip (for example) or you may get none...don't bitch regardless of what happens and be glad you even have a chance

This avenue pretty much leaves your options to an AETC base (i.e. FTU or UPT/IFF).

Everyone is saying that all the other bullshit massively outweighs the 1.2 in the airplane

"Everyone" might be just a bit of an exaggeration.

Interesting.

2

Aren't you still a wingman? Now you're an expert on DT/OT?

Nope, but thanks for asking. Right, I said I was an expert on DT/OT. Care to put any more words in my mouth?

Nice dismount...taking a shot while rocking your wings.

Noted...I've got nothing left to argue on the internet and I'm done. Think what you want, I don't care.

So you were accusing only the author--a civilian--of gathering all of his mis-information from among other things in the "AF crimes" and..."WOMs in the bar"??? You weren't accusing anyone else? Really? Do you know a lot of authors that hang around fighter bars asking questions about airplanes that are still in test?

Copy, you know what I'm thinking, but I don't. Sure, that makes sense. That author is not the only dude, but since you seem to be fixated on my one honest question to Falling...no, I absolutely was not accusing him of anything.

Nickel on the grass

Spoo - Well done.

I just have a problem with you accusing everyone else of scoffing the F-35 based on "the news, op ed pieces, the Air Force Crimes, WOMs heard at the bar, etc?", then implying that you have some great inside info to contradict that stuff, when it's quite clear that you do not have good info.

You inferred incorrectly...I absolutely was not accusing anyone (except for the author of that article) of scoffing the program based on XYZ. It was an honest question to falling. I never said I have some great know-all info about the intricacies of the program, but I (along with many other people) know a little more than whatever some people are reading out there.

Some of that stuff sucks. Big time.

Someday, with enough money and cost overruns against this too-big-to-fail program, LM will solve most of the code problems and the sensors/avionics will work okay.

There's some HUGE problems in this bastardized DT/OT phase. There's some super fucked up stuff that isn't even close to what it should be. I think we're on the same page, the difference is you are arguing from the standpoint of what the program currently is and I'm arguing from the standpoint of what it should (will???) be in a few years. I admit I may be way overly optimistic and I'll call a spade a spade if we get a half-assed shit pie 5 years down the road. The reason I think there's a chance of the "promised capes" working is because of what you said: the DoD has created a too-big-to-fail program and LM will most likely solve the majority of the issues.

This sidebar as reached its max limit on the internets...

Why do you think I said rhetorical question and left it at that? Dude, relax a bit...I am not saying this is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm as happy as the rest of you about the DoD's awesome idea of putting all its eggs in one basket. But the truth is we've said fuck in front of mom and we need something to happen soon to replace our aging fleet. SLEP, etc. goes a little ways, but it's not the 100% answer and it's not even a quick fix.

a bomber of shorter range, lower payload and far higher vulnerability than the Vietnam War’s appallingly flammable, underperforming F-105 Lead Sled; an air-to-air fighter so unmaneuverable and sluggish in acceleration that any ancient MiG-21 will tear it to shreds; and a close support fighter that is a menace to our troops on any battlefield, unable to hit camouflaged tactical targets and incapable of distinguishing friendly soldiers from enemies

I'm not addressing anything outside the scope of an internet forum, but just look at this shit above. If you agree with those statements, then I don't even know what to say. That's it, that's all I'm "defending" this jet against.

We've started down this road before, but why do you always seem so defensive about the -35 program?

I'm not saying it's the greatest invention ever or it doesn't have issues, but I will point out when idiots talk out their ass and make completely retarded claims like Spinney does. Here's a RHETORICAL question for you...how much do you know about the aircraft beyond the news, op ed pieces, the Air Force Crimes, WOMs heard at the bar, etc? I'm just sayin...