ViperStud

Honestly, is there a problem with someone who chooses that option? I can only speak for myself, but flying was a lifelong dream. I wanted something pointy-nose but went in knowing the reality - there were other options, manned options that would still allow me to fly. If I was told a few weeks before drop night that the deal had changed, and then dropped a UAV, I would have been devastated. To assess the situation, decide to SIE, then work my ass of for the remaining 3+ years of my commitment - there is no dishonor in that. It changes things a little if they are an option going in - and for LTs already in UPT now that wasn't the case. Hell, they had finally stood up a formal pipeline to train UAV guys and long since dropped one in UPT. Also, I understand that they don't want last-place dudes almost every class - but that creates a big problem. When UPT drops are no longer primarily about merit, I have less of an issue with people bailing after drop night. Keep integrity in the process or don't complain when someone shows you the middle finger.

Massive assumption in your last sentence. Just like the current situation where a lot of dudes are passing on the bonus and staying in to see what happens, there will be many who do the same under your scenario. Adding money to the pot will always sweeten the deal for some, but 1-2 years longer duration won't have nearly the effect of upping the annual payment by $15-20K.

That escalated quickly; do you guys know each other? Not to beat a dead horse but piling on to my previous thread - how many GA/CFI types have logged 1/1000 the time most of us have flying formation? How many ranging exercises have they flown? How much are they used to looking out the window and seeing another aircraft near them? Yeah, that's why some idiot private pilot will nonchalantly say that "fighter jocks" fly over their 2K' strip at 300 feet or claim a viper got within 50 feet of them in a MOA. Such an opinion is worth nothing.

If you know they're errant, why even listen and take it to heart? Just because they're your bros at the FBO doesn't mean they are any smarter than the average dude at offering accident analysis/insight. Remember the dudes that got intercepted by LUF guys in the gladbag MOAs 6-9 years ago? Claimed the viper was within 50' of them when the tapes said well over 1K'. I'm betting that precisely zero private pilots or CFIs would guess the wingspan of an F-16 as small as 33'.

Dreams vs Reality. Individuals having more career control means AFPC loses some control: won't happen. Sourcing ANG/AFRES for deployment and/or staff is a non-starter. Dudes like me punched to the ANG/AFRES for the QOL. Many of us have civilian (airline, contractor, etc) jobs that are incompatible with 1-3 years off. Expect ANG/AFRES dudes to line up for those exec jobs? You really don't get why a lot of dudes went to the ANG/AFRES. UPT/IFF all FAIPS and Reserve? Holy shit. I spent slightly over 2 years teaching at a UPT base. Never at any assignment have I seen such a disparity between the bottom and top tier instructors. The MWS IPs mentored punks about the CAF/MAF, got them ready for IFF and generally had their shit together. FAIPs need the mentoring of MWS IPs. Some of the part-timers need it more; plus they produce the least relative to the sorties they require for their semi-annual beans. Entire RPA mission on the guard? It works in Tucson because the location is a pretty good deal. Good luck hiring ANG dudes to Creech and Cannon. Won't happen. The AFRES is already learning this lesson in Holloman. Mid-level Capts don't have 20+ years in the ANG. They are either going to 20 only and taking the part time pension or getting full-time Tech or AGR gigs. No one troughs their way to an AD-equivalent pension by punching at 6-9 years and spending only 20 in the ANG/AFRES unless they get put on long-term orders or get an AGR job. "as long as the reserve component is expanded to absorb the RAP commitment of maintaining an effective CAF/MAF/ATC" - here lies the biggest problem of all: money and flying hours. The going logic is that it takes 3 part-timers to make the output of one full-timer. Sure, let dudes punch after 6 years, then keep 3x as many of them around part-time in the ANG/AFRES as you would need if you kept exclusively full-time dudes (with a longer commitment). In an era of decreasing budgets and flying hours, how do they all make RAP? Oh, and AFPC needs to start worrying about actually taking care of people instead of just being able to assign people to billets. Good luck with that. It would be great if they cared enough, but they don't.

It depends. We're using DVRs now, not tapes. I've seen HUD video from crashed jets (like the Fresno jet that pancaked), but if the impact was violent enough to to send little memory chips in a hundred different directions, then probably not.

Pancake, you are ignoring the fact that we require a certain amount of people just to fill all the billets out there. We are seeing a lack of bodies almost everywhere, so where is this backlog you speak of? I'll take Toad's comments to mean there are manning issues at least in the tanker world, if not all of AMC. I saw bros the past few years getting pulled from PIT classes (while already at RND) to go back to the Viper. AFPC has stopped sending fighter guys to RPA and T-6 while cutting back on T-38 bills (and sending heavy dudes to them) all because they can't fill cockpits and 11F staff. And then there are the dudes like me that punched within months of their commitment to join the Guard/Res. Where the hell is this backlog? I agree with TT that you are smoking crack to think that a shorter commitment is the answer. Allow guys to punch sooner and get less of a return on Big Blue's investment? Good idea. The guys going to non-airline jobs have no incentive to stay and the ones going to airlines can punch as soon as they have the hours or get a call to interview. Not to mention the AF will lose the ability to send a major on a 365 without he/she being able to 3-day opt. In the short run, the bonus will continue to go up. It already did with the 9-year option; expect annual payments to increase soon. The survey wouldn't have asked if they aren't kicking it around. In the long run, big blue's only option is LONGER commitments for UPT grads.

You base ops bros get trolled way too easily. No way this dipshit is real.

That is an interesting point. For the non-rated types, does big blue have any tactics to keep you from sniffing free agency or is it just a series of PCS and school ADSCs? Do they try to hit you with deployments when you are new at your base so you still have PCS ADSC and can't 3-day opt it? If this is a factor, it's a dangerous game to play with flyers right now; hardly a day goes by without seeing one of the bros posting an airline interview or hire notification. Edited because Siri screws up everything

It was partially about appearances. The foreign military I dealt with were all non-rated. The only pilots I met were on social occasions. My boss was honestly just afraid to make the change. During the discussion, he no kidding said "you guys have a reputation for getting shit done" and he was reticent to get rid of the ridiculous rated requirement. That's from a non-rated dude. If a loggie feels that way, he is not the only one. My position was a holdover from an old CAOC where there were a ton of rated dudes there before. There was no reason to hold on to it, but I digress. You're a moron. Someone who insecurely throws out obscure words to impress the bros and cover for his inadequacies in other aspects of life ought to be smart enough to read my first sentence. I made a general statement (used the word "generally") and never argued that there was an inherent superiority among all of us. We have tons of douchebags that produce very little in the Viper community. Some get weeded out, but some stick around. In general though, we are more results oriented than a lot of support career fields. Others like us: SOF, MX, CE (specifically EOD and firefighters), SF (I flame them routinely, but never for work ethic). That's not a complete list. I will eat my words when a flying squadron that I'm in: - Turns into a ghost town at 430...just because it's 430 - No kidding locks the doors when we have some down time (maybe weather CNX a go and end up doing training) - Shuts down during the duty day to farewell someone on something other than a pre-planned wing down day - Shows up 2 hours late to do PT (ie, go play fvcking ultimate frisbee) That shit is routine is some places. Yes, I am calling out their work ethic. It's no surprise we end up waiting on things like orders and pay when those practices are condoned. It blows my mind that we all agree that treating everyone the same is BS, yet when someone actually points out the differences between us some nancies get all butthurt. Cultures and work ethic vary greatly around the Air Force. Some of it might be inherent and be the reason why certain types end up in certain places; some of it is likely learned. It takes almost 3 years to make a wingman and not all that learning is in the jet. That's a little different than a 3 month tech school followed by office hours (except of course when closed for training or a farewell).

There is a reason why COCOMs don't care who fills TCN billets but they do care who is working close to them. I know, I filled one of those billets for 5 months. I had the paperwork all done to remove the AFSC requirement and my boss changed his mind last minute. His argument for keeping it 11/12X - credibility when dealing with host nation. Any dude who has ever looked at a flight plan could have done my job on the spot - and any services dude could have done it with 4 hours training. The boss (a loggie BTW) agreed but didn't want to drop the rated requirement. As soon as all these AFSC-specific BS deployment billets (which absolutely do not require the specific skills of that AFSC) drop the AFSC requirement, your viewpoint will have some merit. Until then, the prosecution rests.

The problem is that the COCOMs are smart. They know an 11X is they type who gets shit done. In general, an 11X gives a shit about hacking the mish more so than punching a clock, hanging out at the bra or gathering enough BS bronze stars to look like a Panamanian dictator. The same cannot be said about a lot of other support types. Flame away at me if you want, but that's why they want to keep operators in jobs they perceive as important - even if said job has little to do with actual operations.

Spent 12 years AD and was never close to being threatened by a safety 365. All being an FSO bought me was one TDY of a month for an SIB and probably one or two others that I got out of due to leave, etc. It happens I'm sure, but not to the dudes I know. Certainly not a high PK in the fighter world.

My bro used Uship recently twice for a kit car and a Unimog. He had no complaints. I've heard some horror stories with auto shipping companies so be careful. Most bad experiences stem from damage to cars or no idea where your car is and when it will arrive. I move mine with a flatbed trailer. I think it's easier to just do it yourself if you have the right hardware. If not get it - part of being a car guy.

I went through this recently. If it's registered its a car and if it can't be legally driven then it is car parts. Mine was a kit but already registered and street legalish. It wouldn't be moved on their dime. Ended up not being a factor; I was right at my weight limit anyway.

To the OP - very simple answer: marry the right chick. I didn't for mulligan wife. Deploying was a pain, she needed to talk every day. Each and every TDY I was obviously cheating. Insecure women are not a good match for military dudes. The irony is that she was in as well - flew tankers. Fast forward many years and I've moved on to the real wife. 6 months in Afghanistan was no big deal. She fixes sinks, kills critters and (when I'm not deployed) gives phenomenal blowies. Insecure and/or high maintenance is a bad match for our career. That lesson needs to be learned and it's why so many of us had starter wives.

BACN is the same deal - removed CL thrust restriction and knocked out the ATP. Not bad.

It can be done. The deal is that the days you are on mil payroll, you are not getting paid your pension. Essentially you are working at a discount. If you're doing it for shits and grins, not a terrible deal. If you're doing it to pay the bills,not so much.

What is this 1996 promise you speak of? Unless I'm missing something related to that, I think they're pretty fair about it. We get to log lots of time in complex aircraft and are paid to do it. We get training that is generally considered to be far superior to the civilian counterpart (I've been through a civilian type as well, I know what I'm talking about). The AF has created a system whereby they are allowed to certify us to fly without going through all the FAA hassle - so why should they then have to go back and get everyone FAA certified? There are several airframes in the inventory that they need to send us to civ training for (because there is no equivalent AF training yet, if ever), so they do it. You want a free type/ATP, pursue one of those deals.

Shack. Forget all the obvious benefits - retired buddy of mine had a chance encounter with the chief pilot of a flight department after he retired. That turned into an informal interview and next thing he knew, he was flying for one of the big casinos in Vegas. Chance favors the prepared mind - always put yourself in the position where you are prepared for that unexpected fork in the road. Having options is always a good thing.

Agree with everything you said. What I meant to communicate is that hopefully the T-X puts to bed some of the incessant whining by people who were a little bummed on track select or assignment night and hold the grudge for an entire career. There are 3 kinds of USAF pilots out there: 1: people who were generally happy at track/drop and have no axe to grind. 2: people who were bummed at track/drop, but got over it and bloomed where the AF planted them. Sure, over a beer they may tell you the story - no H-1s that day, not enough 38s, forced to 38s, blew a check ride or two. That being said, they usually can't imagine the past 6-19 years any other way and have made peace with their careers. 3: people who were bummed at track/drop and are insecure about it. They are the ones who introduce themselves with "I fly X-XX, it's what I wanted!" and bitch about (A) people who went down a different path or (B) the opportunities that path presents them later in life. Everyone they talk to for more than 5 mins knows their "story" and they go an entire career holding grudges against other people while failing to accept one thing - UPT is the closest thing to a pure meritocracy we have. If things didn't work out exactly like you wanted them to, look in a mirror. Hopefully the T-X eliminates some of option 3.

Do different rules apply to 7/3-day opts wrt UPT ADSC vs bonus ADSC? Either way it's an ADSC. I do remember fine print in the release saying you'd repay any unearned portion, I just forget the exact examples they gave. It would stand to reason that if you were in a position to 3-day a 365 with UPT commitment, it would be the same.

First, the bonus is not insane. Trying to bridge the gap between compensation for pilots on the outside (airlines, corporate) and on AD only makes sense if you're trying to retain people. It also hasn't gone up from 25K/yr in almost 20 years. No smart companies on the outside pay every person (software dude, accountant, engineer) exactly the same based on time with the company. Nor should the AF. Second, cross-training isn't the answer. Taking a KC-135 guy at 12 years TOS and putting him through the B-course may give you a slightly above average wingman - not a flight lead and certainly not an IP. It works both ways; if I were to TX into a C-17 unit it would take a while to actually be anything more than a viable co-pilot. I know dudes that made that TX quickly in guard units and admit they were a liability as anything other than a right-seater. I also don't think taking a t-1 tracked tanker dude at 12 years and sending them to IFF after getting 10-20 fam rides in the T-38 is exactly a recipe for success. Agree, hopefully the T-X puts this all to bed.

Shack. Life is all about options, might as well keep as many open for as long as possible. Regardless of your goals in life, that is a good thing to keep in mind. Especially in this case, if the "easier" path is the one that keeps those options open.

Your allegiance to thug U hinted at your stupidity. This proves it.