ViperStud

Anyone who thinks that only the "top 1%" could get through UPT is seriously insecure. I spent 2 years teaching 38s recently before my Viper RTB and I was amazed at how difficult it was to wash people out. Combine that with the zero control that CCs have over drops and we sent plenty of LTs to fighters that were not strong swimmers. We saw several FTU washouts and a few that surprised us after they got their wings. BL - it doesn't take top talent to get wings.

This isn't a future problem; it has already happened. Where do you think guys like Rat, Yogi and that idiot at the pentagon who got housed by a chick came from? The combination of picking generals at the Capt ranks along with our leadership/culture problems and poor incentives to stay have left us in a position to bleed talent for many years. Few good dudes stay and several people thrive in this culture when they would be total failures if (A) they were in the private sector or (B) someone had the balls to take them off the path they got put on when they got their SOS DG and kissed ther commander's ass for their first strat. We don't promote the best, we promote the ones among those that are left who best fill their containers An old an old squadron mate was pushed hard by leadership as a Capt/Maj - eventually goes to (I think) Shaw to be a SQ/CC. The other CCs there learn that this new dude picked up the #1 CC strat before he's even set foot on base. I mean, you've gotta keep the golden boy on the golden path even if objectivity goes out the window. My point: the bonus is small potatoes compared to the cultural and leadership problems. Can it help if executed well? Sure, but there are bigger problems that make the bonus almost irrelevant WRT retaining talent.

The 365 and at least two 179s (I know, they are handled differently) went to guys less than 5 years removed from Korea. It's just a fact - AFPC and commanders shack people that they can. Korea does reset our STRD. ETA: buddy of mine is finishing up his command tour. The functional contacted him to see what he would do if hit with a particular 365. His answer was that he'd 7-day opt. Several of his peers said the same. Eventually someone was enticed with a good deal in the backside and "volunteered" for it. Interesting change from the porch - are they realizing they can't keep bleeding several bodies to fill one BS tasker? Or are they treating him differently as a graduated CC? He dodged one bullet but is ready to punch and finish up in the guard if need be.

Very naive. I've seen too many bros get shacked with a 365 or a 179 after 7-day opting, completing their command tour or getting within 1.5 years of retirement. Someone at AFPC is looking at a lot more that STRD, because those numbers were all over the place - some ancient and some fairly recent. The thing they all had in common? It was little/no ability to say no. 7-day opting can leave you with 1.5 years of ADSC remaining. I've seen one 365 and a slew of 179s thrown at dudes in that exact situation.

From what I've seen its all option 1 or 3, mostly depending on how bad they need bodies at the new location. If you don't mind, what's the airframe? Down vote for thug U by the way.

Honestly, is there a problem with someone who chooses that option? I can only speak for myself, but flying was a lifelong dream. I wanted something pointy-nose but went in knowing the reality - there were other options, manned options that would still allow me to fly. If I was told a few weeks before drop night that the deal had changed, and then dropped a UAV, I would have been devastated. To assess the situation, decide to SIE, then work my ass of for the remaining 3+ years of my commitment - there is no dishonor in that. It changes things a little if they are an option going in - and for LTs already in UPT now that wasn't the case. Hell, they had finally stood up a formal pipeline to train UAV guys and long since dropped one in UPT. Also, I understand that they don't want last-place dudes almost every class - but that creates a big problem. When UPT drops are no longer primarily about merit, I have less of an issue with people bailing after drop night. Keep integrity in the process or don't complain when someone shows you the middle finger.

Massive assumption in your last sentence. Just like the current situation where a lot of dudes are passing on the bonus and staying in to see what happens, there will be many who do the same under your scenario. Adding money to the pot will always sweeten the deal for some, but 1-2 years longer duration won't have nearly the effect of upping the annual payment by $15-20K.

That escalated quickly; do you guys know each other? Not to beat a dead horse but piling on to my previous thread - how many GA/CFI types have logged 1/1000 the time most of us have flying formation? How many ranging exercises have they flown? How much are they used to looking out the window and seeing another aircraft near them? Yeah, that's why some idiot private pilot will nonchalantly say that "fighter jocks" fly over their 2K' strip at 300 feet or claim a viper got within 50 feet of them in a MOA. Such an opinion is worth nothing.

If you know they're errant, why even listen and take it to heart? Just because they're your bros at the FBO doesn't mean they are any smarter than the average dude at offering accident analysis/insight. Remember the dudes that got intercepted by LUF guys in the gladbag MOAs 6-9 years ago? Claimed the viper was within 50' of them when the tapes said well over 1K'. I'm betting that precisely zero private pilots or CFIs would guess the wingspan of an F-16 as small as 33'.

Dreams vs Reality. Individuals having more career control means AFPC loses some control: won't happen. Sourcing ANG/AFRES for deployment and/or staff is a non-starter. Dudes like me punched to the ANG/AFRES for the QOL. Many of us have civilian (airline, contractor, etc) jobs that are incompatible with 1-3 years off. Expect ANG/AFRES dudes to line up for those exec jobs? You really don't get why a lot of dudes went to the ANG/AFRES. UPT/IFF all FAIPS and Reserve? Holy shit. I spent slightly over 2 years teaching at a UPT base. Never at any assignment have I seen such a disparity between the bottom and top tier instructors. The MWS IPs mentored punks about the CAF/MAF, got them ready for IFF and generally had their shit together. FAIPs need the mentoring of MWS IPs. Some of the part-timers need it more; plus they produce the least relative to the sorties they require for their semi-annual beans. Entire RPA mission on the guard? It works in Tucson because the location is a pretty good deal. Good luck hiring ANG dudes to Creech and Cannon. Won't happen. The AFRES is already learning this lesson in Holloman. Mid-level Capts don't have 20+ years in the ANG. They are either going to 20 only and taking the part time pension or getting full-time Tech or AGR gigs. No one troughs their way to an AD-equivalent pension by punching at 6-9 years and spending only 20 in the ANG/AFRES unless they get put on long-term orders or get an AGR job. "as long as the reserve component is expanded to absorb the RAP commitment of maintaining an effective CAF/MAF/ATC" - here lies the biggest problem of all: money and flying hours. The going logic is that it takes 3 part-timers to make the output of one full-timer. Sure, let dudes punch after 6 years, then keep 3x as many of them around part-time in the ANG/AFRES as you would need if you kept exclusively full-time dudes (with a longer commitment). In an era of decreasing budgets and flying hours, how do they all make RAP? Oh, and AFPC needs to start worrying about actually taking care of people instead of just being able to assign people to billets. Good luck with that. It would be great if they cared enough, but they don't.

It depends. We're using DVRs now, not tapes. I've seen HUD video from crashed jets (like the Fresno jet that pancaked), but if the impact was violent enough to to send little memory chips in a hundred different directions, then probably not.

Pancake, you are ignoring the fact that we require a certain amount of people just to fill all the billets out there. We are seeing a lack of bodies almost everywhere, so where is this backlog you speak of? I'll take Toad's comments to mean there are manning issues at least in the tanker world, if not all of AMC. I saw bros the past few years getting pulled from PIT classes (while already at RND) to go back to the Viper. AFPC has stopped sending fighter guys to RPA and T-6 while cutting back on T-38 bills (and sending heavy dudes to them) all because they can't fill cockpits and 11F staff. And then there are the dudes like me that punched within months of their commitment to join the Guard/Res. Where the hell is this backlog? I agree with TT that you are smoking crack to think that a shorter commitment is the answer. Allow guys to punch sooner and get less of a return on Big Blue's investment? Good idea. The guys going to non-airline jobs have no incentive to stay and the ones going to airlines can punch as soon as they have the hours or get a call to interview. Not to mention the AF will lose the ability to send a major on a 365 without he/she being able to 3-day opt. In the short run, the bonus will continue to go up. It already did with the 9-year option; expect annual payments to increase soon. The survey wouldn't have asked if they aren't kicking it around. In the long run, big blue's only option is LONGER commitments for UPT grads.

You base ops bros get trolled way too easily. No way this dipshit is real.

That is an interesting point. For the non-rated types, does big blue have any tactics to keep you from sniffing free agency or is it just a series of PCS and school ADSCs? Do they try to hit you with deployments when you are new at your base so you still have PCS ADSC and can't 3-day opt it? If this is a factor, it's a dangerous game to play with flyers right now; hardly a day goes by without seeing one of the bros posting an airline interview or hire notification. Edited because Siri screws up everything

It was partially about appearances. The foreign military I dealt with were all non-rated. The only pilots I met were on social occasions. My boss was honestly just afraid to make the change. During the discussion, he no kidding said "you guys have a reputation for getting shit done" and he was reticent to get rid of the ridiculous rated requirement. That's from a non-rated dude. If a loggie feels that way, he is not the only one. My position was a holdover from an old CAOC where there were a ton of rated dudes there before. There was no reason to hold on to it, but I digress. You're a moron. Someone who insecurely throws out obscure words to impress the bros and cover for his inadequacies in other aspects of life ought to be smart enough to read my first sentence. I made a general statement (used the word "generally") and never argued that there was an inherent superiority among all of us. We have tons of douchebags that produce very little in the Viper community. Some get weeded out, but some stick around. In general though, we are more results oriented than a lot of support career fields. Others like us: SOF, MX, CE (specifically EOD and firefighters), SF (I flame them routinely, but never for work ethic). That's not a complete list. I will eat my words when a flying squadron that I'm in: - Turns into a ghost town at 430...just because it's 430 - No kidding locks the doors when we have some down time (maybe weather CNX a go and end up doing training) - Shuts down during the duty day to farewell someone on something other than a pre-planned wing down day - Shows up 2 hours late to do PT (ie, go play fvcking ultimate frisbee) That shit is routine is some places. Yes, I am calling out their work ethic. It's no surprise we end up waiting on things like orders and pay when those practices are condoned. It blows my mind that we all agree that treating everyone the same is BS, yet when someone actually points out the differences between us some nancies get all butthurt. Cultures and work ethic vary greatly around the Air Force. Some of it might be inherent and be the reason why certain types end up in certain places; some of it is likely learned. It takes almost 3 years to make a wingman and not all that learning is in the jet. That's a little different than a 3 month tech school followed by office hours (except of course when closed for training or a farewell).

There is a reason why COCOMs don't care who fills TCN billets but they do care who is working close to them. I know, I filled one of those billets for 5 months. I had the paperwork all done to remove the AFSC requirement and my boss changed his mind last minute. His argument for keeping it 11/12X - credibility when dealing with host nation. Any dude who has ever looked at a flight plan could have done my job on the spot - and any services dude could have done it with 4 hours training. The boss (a loggie BTW) agreed but didn't want to drop the rated requirement. As soon as all these AFSC-specific BS deployment billets (which absolutely do not require the specific skills of that AFSC) drop the AFSC requirement, your viewpoint will have some merit. Until then, the prosecution rests.

The problem is that the COCOMs are smart. They know an 11X is they type who gets shit done. In general, an 11X gives a shit about hacking the mish more so than punching a clock, hanging out at the bra or gathering enough BS bronze stars to look like a Panamanian dictator. The same cannot be said about a lot of other support types. Flame away at me if you want, but that's why they want to keep operators in jobs they perceive as important - even if said job has little to do with actual operations.

Spent 12 years AD and was never close to being threatened by a safety 365. All being an FSO bought me was one TDY of a month for an SIB and probably one or two others that I got out of due to leave, etc. It happens I'm sure, but not to the dudes I know. Certainly not a high PK in the fighter world.

My bro used Uship recently twice for a kit car and a Unimog. He had no complaints. I've heard some horror stories with auto shipping companies so be careful. Most bad experiences stem from damage to cars or no idea where your car is and when it will arrive. I move mine with a flatbed trailer. I think it's easier to just do it yourself if you have the right hardware. If not get it - part of being a car guy.

I went through this recently. If it's registered its a car and if it can't be legally driven then it is car parts. Mine was a kit but already registered and street legalish. It wouldn't be moved on their dime. Ended up not being a factor; I was right at my weight limit anyway.

To the OP - very simple answer: marry the right chick. I didn't for mulligan wife. Deploying was a pain, she needed to talk every day. Each and every TDY I was obviously cheating. Insecure women are not a good match for military dudes. The irony is that she was in as well - flew tankers. Fast forward many years and I've moved on to the real wife. 6 months in Afghanistan was no big deal. She fixes sinks, kills critters and (when I'm not deployed) gives phenomenal blowies. Insecure and/or high maintenance is a bad match for our career. That lesson needs to be learned and it's why so many of us had starter wives.

BACN is the same deal - removed CL thrust restriction and knocked out the ATP. Not bad.

It can be done. The deal is that the days you are on mil payroll, you are not getting paid your pension. Essentially you are working at a discount. If you're doing it for shits and grins, not a terrible deal. If you're doing it to pay the bills,not so much.

What is this 1996 promise you speak of? Unless I'm missing something related to that, I think they're pretty fair about it. We get to log lots of time in complex aircraft and are paid to do it. We get training that is generally considered to be far superior to the civilian counterpart (I've been through a civilian type as well, I know what I'm talking about). The AF has created a system whereby they are allowed to certify us to fly without going through all the FAA hassle - so why should they then have to go back and get everyone FAA certified? There are several airframes in the inventory that they need to send us to civ training for (because there is no equivalent AF training yet, if ever), so they do it. You want a free type/ATP, pursue one of those deals.