Personal Reliability Program (PRP)

[Guest chancho]

I have been reading a lot of the posts in this forum and it’s been very helpful for me during the process of trying to turn in my OTS package and I would like to thank everyone that is part of this forum for making my life a little easier. I’ve been in the AF for 7 years now (SSGT, 26yrs old) and the AF has helped me a lot. But for the last few months I’m starting to have doubts and I’m thinking of getting out. My problem is this: I graduated from Embry Riddle w/ BS in Pro Aero GPA 3.1. I’m currently working on my MS in Aviation Ops and 9 classes away from finishing. I have 275 hrs and have my PPL, IFR, COMM, and currently working on MULTI and CFI. I have earned numerous of awards in my SQ and made promotions my very first time testing. I’ve been deployed twice: Kyrgyzstan republic and Ali AB Iraq and both earned some ACHV medals. The down side of this all was a PCM score of 65 which sucks. I tried to get a LOR from the Wing King but I didn’t get the support I needed from my upper management to push it threw so I had to settle for an LOR from my section commander. Within 5 hours of Randolph receiving my package I got an email saying that I am ineligible to apply because my PRP status is on Permanently Decertified because of traffic tickets (wavered in to join) before I join the military. I haven’t gotten a ticket since 1998. And now I have to type up a LOR from me to my Commander, Group CC, Wing CC and then to the Air Staff. My SQ is helping me with this but not to the fullest; I expected a little more from them, especially for someone who never got in trouble and for my recognition w/ the SQ. My job never required me to be in PRP nor was I notified about this. And now because I had to pull my package out of the AUG board I have to wait for the DEC board and if I get my status changed in time. And at the same time I’m trying to get the wing king to sign my LOR, which gives them about 3 months to get to him and back in time for turn in. With all this happening I’m starting to think that my package isn’t going to be turned in time for the DEC board and have to wait for MAY 07 for the next board. From the looks of it, my SQ is not pushing the issue for me. I’m starting to have doubts in the military (don’t get me wrong I love the AF) but my motivation in every day work (getting the mission done) has gone down hill and I feel that all my work that I dictated for my self for the past 7 years to get to success in the military has gone down the drain. I’m thinking of serving my last three years (finishing my MS) and getting a job w/ some flight schools and making it to the Airlines on my own. I kind of feel better for venting this out here then at work. Do you guys feel that I’m over reacting?

[Hacker]

Perm Decert because of traffic tickets? That's a new one on me.

[Guest chancho]

For 8 traffic tickets and a moral wavier in order to join the military. Basically a perm decert for 8 tickets means that I'm irresponsible and the military can’t trust me with PRP.

[Guest chancho]

And it was minor traffic violations. Two of them were speeding and the rest was seat belts, failed to stop, and loud music . Out of 8 three of them were dropped

[Guest sickels101]

I didn't know you had to be on PRP to go to OTS? Am I the only one that thinks this is weird or is that a requirement. I'm on PRP because I deal with weapons that make a big boom. If you do need it for OTS I am curious as to why you would. Seems pretty crappy to me.

I just whipped out my PRP guide and this is what they say is warranting of a permanent decertification.

Permanent Decertification is not in itself a derogatory action; however, the circumstances that lead to a permanent decert may be derogatory and call for appropriate administrative action(s). Permanent decert is used for most instances of drug abuse, for personnel who are diagnosed as being alcoholic, and for severe mental health problems, to name a few examples

I don't see where tickets would fall under that.

Here is what they say are "the following mandatory selection requirements for PRP:"

-US Citizen

-S-1 physical profile (meaning no abnormal health problems)

-techincal competence

-required security clearance investigation and that you have a positive attitude towards performing duties around nuclear weapons and the objectives of the program

-not currently under courts martial or have any serious civilian charges nor are you being considered for involuntary separation

That last one may be what they are talking about but I don't considered speeding tickets "serious." Anywho, there is something to go on if you needed/wanted it. I still don't understand why you would need PRP if you aren't going into the nuke world. But there is the AF for ya.

[ 11. September 2006, 06:09: Message edited by: SoNotToSpeak ]

[Herk Driver]

It's funny because CC's are the ones that make the call about PRP cert in the first place. While 8 traffic tickets may make a CC think twice, I didn't know you could be Perm Decert by AFPC before a CC has even had the chance to look at any PDI and make a determination.

[Guest ShineR]

Not to thread jack, but I have heard that admitting to minor drug use years and years ago can decert you from PRP...any truth in this?

And thats rough, traffic tickets are a joke and since none of those were DUIs, they shouldnt hold them that hard against you. Weird.

[ 11. September 2006, 12:43: Message edited by: ShineR ]

[Guest chancho]

Well in the PRP Reg it says that I’m under a code "V" Pert Decert during initial screening. I fall under category 5 for “more then 6 minor traffic violations within 2 years”. Yeah that sucks; I got all 8 in two years exactly. For drugs I admitted experimenting with marijuana once and filled out an AF-Form 2030 but according to MPF it was for my moral waiver which was for traffic violations.

[Guest chancho]

Well, for requiring PRP for OTS, I don’t have a clue because the board themselves rejected me within five hours. What sucks is that my qualifications speak for it self (not to sound cocky) but you know what I mean. I just want to fly for the AF. I’m about to give up on the military.

[Herk Driver]

3.3.4. Conviction or Involvement in a Serious Incident. Conviction by a military or civil court of a serious offense, including both felonies and misdemeanors, or involvement in a serious incident, or a pattern of behavior or conduct that is reasonably indicative of a contemptuous attitude toward the law or other duly constituted authority may be grounds for decertification or disqualification. Serious incidents include, but are not limited to, any criminal or petty offense, assault, sexual misconduct, financial

irresponsibility, an inordinate number of traffic offenses, and child or spouse abuse.

So I see where large numbers of traffic tickets can keep you from being PRP. And after reading the AFI, I see that AFPC provides pre-screening of some Officer accession candidates. So, I can see how you were perm de-certed. Are you trying to go to OTS in one of the AFSCs listed in Attachment 11 or are you currently in one of the AFSCs listed? If not, then I think they would have a hard time justifying having done a pre-screen and should probably rethink it.

Maybe a trip over to the base PRP monitor with some good questions would be worth your time. Specifically, why the PDI was reported and why the PDS update was accomplished? This is especially true if you aren't in one of those AFSCs (see note 1 under Table A11.1).

Hope that helps.

[Guest chancho]

I already went to the base PRP monitor and she told me the same thing. So I'm in the process of getting this resolved. thanks for all your help..

[Guest ShineR]

Just for future reference the AFI is here:

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af.../afi36-2104.pdf

And to answer my question and shoot down rumors that I have heard, experimental use of marijuana is not a DQ.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by ShineR:

And to answer my question and shoot down rumors that I have heard, experimental use of marijuana is not a DQ.

I would read it again a little closer before I hung my hat on my dick if I were you.

You might be ok if you were already certified before 25 may '93.

If not...

3.3.2.6.7. Individuals who used cannabis products while on active duty or working under the PRP, except as described in paragraph 3.3.2.6., must be permanently decertified with no possibility of reinstatement into the PRP.

[Guest sickels101]

Score one for Rainman.

[Guest chancho]

rainman but isn't that while AD? i thought the question was if i used the drug before my enlistment. thanks for the info anyway and lets spread the rumor out about this. peace

[Guest ShineR]

Rainman- I was under the impression that was for AD. If you are experimenting while on AD you shouldnt even be in the AF.

Here is what the reg has for experimental pre-service marijuana use, given that you have no lasting affects, etc:

3.3.2.6.2. Individuals who had pre-service/pre-employment experimental or infrequent use of

cannabis products may be retained in the program if there is no additional information that

would cause the CO to doubt the individual’s reliability.

[ 13. September 2006, 09:25: Message edited by: ShineR ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I'll let you figure it out for yourself. Here's a brief lesson on how to quickly find what you need in the regs. I don't intend to patronize you so if you already know how to do this, blow it off.

Step 1. Open the link ShineR posted to AFI36-2104.

Step 2. Go to page 52 and review the questions you will be asked during your PRP Certification Interview.

Step 3. Click on the little binos on the tool bar. Enter "PDI" into your search. PDI is Potentially Disqualiying Information.

Step 4. Read every reference to PDI. That will give you an idea where the information goes if you answer "Yes" to anything during your interview.

Now you should have an idea of how serious the PRP certification process is and how closely they will look at you. I'm not trying to scare anyone off, I'm just giving you a technique for being informed about how things work so you don't have any surprises.

This kind of thing is stressful, which is probably why there are always so many questions about it. I always thought it was nice to have as much SA about what was happening before I started something like this as I could. It is also why I tell my kids to stay alert for those five minute windows in their lives where the decision they make in the next five minutes could have some serious and unintended long term implications.

Technique only.

[Guest cobrajeff]

I'll let you figure it out for yourself. Here's a brief lesson on how to quickly find what you need in the regs. I don't intend to patronize you so if you already know how to do this, blow it off.

Step 1. Open the link ShineR posted to AFI36-2104.

Step 2. Go to page 52 and review the questions you will be asked during your PRP Certification Interview.

Step 3. Click on the little binos on the tool bar. Enter "PDI" into your search. PDI is Potentially Disqualiying Information.

Step 4. Read every reference to PDI. That will give you an idea where the information goes if you answer "Yes" to anything during your interview.

Now you should have an idea of how serious the PRP certification process is and how closely they will look at you. I'm not trying to scare anyone off, I'm just giving you a technique for being informed about how things work so you don't have any surprises.

This kind of thing is stressful, which is probably why there are always so many questions about it. I always thought it was nice to have as much SA about what was happening before I started something like this as I could. It is also why I tell my kids to stay alert for those five minute windows in their lives where the decision they make in the next five minutes could have some serious and unintended long term implications.

Technique only.

This exerpt is taken directly from DoD 5210.42-R_AFMAN 10-3902...

C5.1.2.4. Pre-Service Drug Use. Pre-service use of marijuana, hashish, or other

cannabis-based product does not necessarily render an individual ineligible for consideration for,

or retention in, a PRP position. It is incumbent on the certifying official, with CMA

consultation, to determine the degree that the pre-service drug use impacts the reliability of the

individual being considered.

C5.1.2.4.1. It is not the intention of this Regulation to render automatically ineligible

for the PRP all individuals who are or have been in the program after disclosing pre-Service or

in-Service cannabis use and who, before May 25, 1993, were certified according to the PRP

certification rules of their Service that were in effect at the time of their first certification in

which this use was considered during the PRP certification process. Further, if individuals were

certified at a time when the Services did not require disclosure of cannabis use, and they

subsequently made such disclosure, this disclosure will not be the sole reason for decertification.

C5.1.2.4.2. If the pre-Service cannabis use is discovered after an individual is already

certified, and there is no other information that would cause doubt about the individual’s

reliability, the certifying official, with CMA consultation, may retain the individual in the PRP.

[hindsight2020]

man, I hate to say it, but sounds like enlisting in the AF was the worst thing you could've done to become an AF pilot. Holy crap. Not to monday morning quarterback or anything, but why couldn't you have just gone to college, get the degree and applied to OTS? Heck, even Guard/Reserve; it just seems silly, since we've all had speeding tickets of at least that number in any ten year period, and it was NEVER an issue when applying from the outside. That situation, if you're describing it accurately, is just dumb brother, separate and give the Guard a go, AD sucks anyways (I kid I kid..not).

Besides, PRP sucks, my hat's off to the poor bastards on it.

[Guest LittleMan]

I know I'm going to get ripped for this one, but what is PRP and what does it have to do with becoming a pilot? I want to go Guard and am wondering if I going to have to go through this PRP qualification or not. I have no past marijuana use and only two or three speeding tickets in the last five years so I'm not worrying, but I am curious. I tried to look it up and only came up with stuff about the LGM-30 Minuteman - Propulsion Replacement Program (PRP). I assume that's what it is, but couldn't find anything to really tell me what it is (not even the omniscient Wikipedia could tell me). Thanks for putting up with my ignorance.

[ram02]

I know I'm going to get ripped for this one, but what is PRP and what does it have to do with becoming a pilot? I want to go Guard and am wondering if I going to have to go through this PRP qualification or not. I have no past marijuana use and only two or three speeding tickets in the last five years so I'm not worrying, but I am curious. I tried to look it up and only came up with stuff about the LGM-30 Minuteman - Propulsion Replacement Program (PRP). I assume that's what it is, but couldn't find anything to really tell me what it is (not even the omniscient Wikipedia could tell me). Thanks for putting up with my ignorance.

PRP stands for "Personnel Reliability Program" and constitutes an additional set of requirements for military members that deal with nuclear weapons. Wikipedia does in fact have an article about it -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Reliability_Program

[sputnik]

I know of at least one person who smoked grass before joining the military, disclosed it, and had zero problems getting on PRP.

Oddly, what gave them the most pause, I took this citizens police academy course because I was in Del Rio, bored, and wanted to ride along with the fuzz and you had to take this 8 week course to do so (couple nights a week as I recall). Anyway, one of the instructors was a trained hypnotist and demoed techniques on/to the class. Supposed to help witnesses relax and remember what they saw. As supreme court says you can't use such testimony I have no idea why he was doing this. Back to the story. Along with the majority of the class I took this as a chance to go to my happy place and zonk out, no dancing on chairs while clucking like a chicken, or being programmed to kill Frank Sinatra. Anyway, on the PRP questionaire, along with have you ever used drugs in the last two thousand years, is have you ever been hypnotized. So I said yes. Holy f&ck, they skipped right over the drug use and homed in on that one. Personally I found PRP to be a non event but I wasn't in ACC, our unit was small, not pea-brained, and took a big boy approach to it.

Great story I know.

Back to the thread, the first I'd heard of PRP and had anything to do with it was when I actually had to go on it. Never heard of this as a commissioning requirement.

Not to knock the thread starter--I hope he got past this hiccup--but how 'bout some personal reponsibility, you get 8 tickets in 2 years and it's the AF's fault? Yes it's stupid they give a crap about it, but so is not wearing your seatbelt, and getting caught, multiple times.