Guest egghead Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Hello all. I'm a UPT hopeful for this AD board and I've got a quick question. In your opinion is it worth it for me to get my instrument before I go to UPT? If I don't get selected I'm going to get it anyway to be more competitive for next year. However if the stars align and I'm blessed with a class date is it worth the +7K to get a leg up? Any opinion is welcome. Tnx -MX that wishes he was Ops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I dropped the money to get mine in college. You will definately have an advantage on your bros at first, mainly in the S.A. department, but by the end of the instrument phase, you will pretty much be the same as your bros who didn't get one. Unless I just had the money to burn, I wouldn't do it again. [ 11 February 2004, 09:59: Message edited by: ENJJPT stud ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 If you get selected for UPT without it, then don't waste your money. It will give an advantage for about a week. And don't every post "get a leg up" on this board again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AirGuardian Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Can't know too much about instrument flying... At least get a basic idea of instrument flying and what it entails, it's all good and can't hurt you unless your instruction(or) is poor! Even basic vocab and readings related are a decent help - $7K for the whole enchalada(civilian side) wouldn't have been worth it for me strictly, but to each their own. After a few weeks into the instrument portions it all seems to equal out for most of the trainees. I did notice the instrument qual'd folks had better SA and confidence initially! But that was with the 37, with the T-6 displays I'm sure they're spoiled - but that's what they will be flying anyway prior to the T-1/38C models... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiffler Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 I will tell you what I am doing, and what I have heard. I start upt in 1 month, and I am just reading and understanding approach charts, and getting instrument knowledge down, but not getting my rating. That way I am not caught way off guard, but I am also 7000 dollars richer. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AirGuardian Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Just get your gear down before the FAF(final approach fix) if they're still doing that slam/hook! Kinda funny now looking back at all the hooks on that one(probably my class specific!) Daaang! Plenty of other stuff to look at, but that one still sticks for some reason mentioned above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ryan77 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Everyone, thanks for the replies. This forum has been a lot of help. My question is this. I am working on my OTS/UPT package for the August board, and am wondering if I should get my instrument rating before I submit it. I have been looking around for different schools, and I have found several. I have found accelerated schools where you could get your rating in about 2 weeks. My question is how much weight will an instrument rating actually have on an OTS application? Should I submit my package with just a PPL and let the Air Force pay the way? Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneedro Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I am with you Chuck, not to sure if I buy into the whole instrument ticket in 2 weeks. Remembering back to when I did it, though I went through a Part 141 school so it took longer, I cant imagine being able to go from start to finish in 2 weeks. Sounds like they are more worried about getting your money then whether or not you are a good instrument pilot. I would rather take longer and pay more than be a lousy at instruments because it is a whole different ballgame from anything else(sim, foggles, ect...) when you are in the soup. Whether you wait for UPT or get the ticket on your own I would suggest making sure you can fly IFR and know your stuff before blasting off into the soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Those accelerated schools usually have a ton of fine print. Most of the two week schools require like 45 hours PIC X-C and 40 Sim. or actual instrument. They are only to finish up your rating not to start from scratch. It's physically impossible to fulfill the requirements in two weeks starting from scratch. They also teach you how to pass a checkride, not fly safely. I flew safety pilot for one of these two week wonders, and I basically talked him through every approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneedro Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I worked with one of those people who went from private to MEII in a couple of months. One of the worst pilots I have ever seen, but I agree with C17wannabe that he can probably pass the hell out of a checkride. Granted he is not a good pilot or instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ryan77 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Yeah, I hear everyone. I talked to one of the instructors there, and he said it was 12 hour days for two weeks. Also it is a part 141 school that doesn't require 50 hours x country. I was just curious if it would improve my chances with other candidates if I had an instrument rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wingzero Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I don't think it would hurt your chances. As far as two weeks, I believe you could fly that time off and get your ticket. If you could get a head start on the ground school and your written exam and focus on the flying it can be done. A fellow instructor had a student get his private during christmas break 2002 and his instrument ticket this past break. True he would have occasional brain farts but he passed his checkride. Yes I would say someone who goes this route will probably not be as good as someone who takes a little more time, there is just so much material to go over. I say so what? Thats why you continue to practice and improve your skills. I'm sure that a lot of newly minted instrument pilots are low time guys lacking in experience and skill anyways. Plus the board won't know if it took you two weeks or two years to get your rating. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ILLiniFlyer16 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I'm at the University of Illinois Institute of Aviation. I am more than positive that there isn't an instrument rating on a 2 week schedule...unless its real shady!!! Instrument is one of your hardest ratings to get, much less getting rated in 2 weeks, I wouldn't trust it. Just my 2 cents -hopefully future AF pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiffler Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Alright, lots of discussion has been put up about whether to get an instrument rating before going to UPT. Now granted I am only about 2 1/2 months into Tweets, but i have formed an opinion on this, and would now like to take this opportunity to share it! First off, I think if you come to UPT with an instrument rating, it will obviously be easier for you to grasp instrument flying, and control of the AC during "the weather." So, if you already have a rating, and come to UPT, well...awesome. However...if you are thinking of dropping $5000 on an instrument rating before getting here, dont do it. Yes, instruments are difficult to an extent, and yes you do have to put some mental sweat into learning them, but you learn them, learn them well, and best of all, you get PAID to learn them. If you are on the Tweet, the instruments are so old that even if you have your rating, you practically have to learn them all again. Anyway, just my .02. This from a guy that considered getting some instrument time before UPT, and was glad i didnt, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I think that those of us who learned instruments in a 1972 C-172 are already accustomed to old out of date instruments. LOL. Gotta love those NDB approaches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanePhlyer Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Hey ToBeKC135Pilot, I've hear that is doesn't really matter how much you know b4 you go down there, once you get there the military is going to teach you "everything their way." What in the hell does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by PlanePhlyer: ...the military is going to teach you "everything their way." What in the hell does that mean? #153 on the list of things that you don't need to worry about and probably wouldn't understand until you get to UPT. There's some techniques, procedures, and technedures that are pretty military (and even Air Force) specific that differ from civilian flying. If you are inexperienced, it's all transparent. If you are experienced, theres a curve ball here and there, but otherwise it's all easy to adjust to. With regard to the topic of this thread, I agree that instrument training (or rating) for the sake of getting a leg up on UPT isn't worth it. If you already have some experience, be prepared to work hard at UPT regardless. If you lack said experience, be prepared to work a little harder than the experienced folks, but don't think that you'll get left behind. There are plenty of UPT grads that didn't have any experience to speak of and ended up performing as well as those who had some to start with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiffler Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Flyinjunky is right. You just dont necessarily understand the "military way" until you get out here. Its alot different, but its cool. That said, I have noticed in my class, those with instrument time are pretty even with those of us that didnt have any at all. So again, if you have the time already, great, if you dont, it sure isnt worth the money... Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I had my instrument ticket before I showed up to pilot training. Although I understood instruments alot better initially and was even able to help explain some of the stuff to my bros, it doesn't really help that much as far as flying goes. I'd still get some instrument time if I had the $$, but otherwise I wouldn't sweat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneedro Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 To start, I have ZERO military flight experience so take this for what it is worth. But if you have a little money to spend, I cant see how it would hurt you to get an hour or two in the clouds. Flying simulated IMC in an airplane or simulator is a whole different ballgame then in actual conditions. You dont have to learn how to fly IFR, just get an idea of what it is like and how to keep your orientation. That should allow you to concentrate more on learning instruments in the air rather than figuring why you dont know your up from your down at UPT. Again I dont have any military flight experience, but I cant see how getting into the "soup" once or twice before UPT would hurt if you have a little money to spend. I have some actual experience and am very happy that I got it going 100kts for the first time rather than 200+, which I also have experience doing, and that is in itself a whole new ballgame. Just my opinion. But I also dont think it is something to try and scrape up the cash to do. [ 22. June 2004, 01:18: Message edited by: Sneedro ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiffler Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 ya but the first few times in the clouds in UPT are during contact...and usually the IP just lets you try to fly it, but doesnt hold you responsible if you jack it up (In the clouds only!) So by instruments, you already would have spent a bit of time in the clouds. But otherwise, sneedro, good point. Welcome to Vance...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by ENJJPT stud: I had my instrument ticket before I showed up to pilot training. Although I understood instruments alot better initially and was even able to help explain some of the stuff to my bros, it doesn't really help that much as far as flying goes. I'd still get some instrument time if I had the $$, but otherwise I wouldn't sweat it. I was in a similar situation - I had my instrument rating before UPT. I would agree with the other people that the rating definitely helps but may not be worth spending the extra $5K on. The guys in my class (including me) with their instrument ratings and the guys with their instrument ratings in the 2 classes behind me all did well or are doing very well in the instrument phase of T-37's and it can be partially attributed to their experience. On the other hand, some of the best I-checkride scores in my class were from dudes with no instrument rating, so go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitzo Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I am coming into UPT with a commercial, multi and instrument instructor. With all of that said the single best thing I have ever done in my training so far was being in a light twin in complete IMC with strobes on. If you haven't been spatially disoriented before I would do it (with an instructor of course). Even if you have your instrument ticket, nothing replaces solid IMC the whole way to somewhere and all the way back. I'm not talking .1 actual instrument I am talking about the entire flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I flew 2.3 solid IMC at night right before I got my ticket. I scared the shit out of myself because I forgot to turn the strobes off before hitting the clouds. You are right about spatially disoriented. I definately reccomend trying it out just for fun. Do some Dutch roles and then look into the clouds. Talk about serious leans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WILLIO Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Whats up everyone. I will be heading to UPT some time before next summer and had a quick question. Im about half way to getting my Instrument rating and im wondering if having it will help me out much at UPT. Also, I spoke with a friend at UPT now and he said flying in busy airports will definitely help... that is if im used to flying in small FBOs. What other suggestions might you have for prepping for the flying? Thanks in advance! [ 04. October 2005, 09:34: Message edited by: WILZ ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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