Bergman
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Posts posted by Bergman
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Herkeng -> Sounds like the MPF guys are feeding you some B.S. IIRC, the NAF CC is the first person in the chain of command with disapproval authority for any waivers. Certainly it is NOT the E-5 at your local MPF!
Now, they may have meant that the waivers aren't being approved, in which case I would say "OK...I want to submit mine anyway and see what happens." If you want to pursue a waiver, they MUST submit it for you.
Has anyone heard something different?
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The CSAF is the same for Active Duty, ANG, and AFRES as they are all part of the 'Total Force'. Gen John Jumper.
As to how long it will take to process a waiver, "it depends" is accurate. As AirGuardian mentioned, whether the Generals are in the office has a lot to do with the timeline. Also, these things are staffed by Maj/LT Col types (who are most likely the ones that actually make the decisions) so their whereabouts might come in to play.
Anyway, without getting too far into the weeds on the workings of how they are processed...mine took 128 days. Seems that 3-4 months is fairly typical (based on conversations with other ANG folks and with the flying training guys at NGB). One guy in my unit took over 15 months to get his...they lost it twice! Once they had approved his medical waiver, he needed an age waiver! DoH! Having said all that..."it depends". Perhaps you will get lucky and it'll only take a few weeks. "Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what you get" - Bergman.
Good luck! Pray for the pentagon distro system to work smoothly.
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Having successfully Palace Chased myself, I feel marginally qualified to offer advice (was a previous Nav and was allowed to nix 8 months from my ADSC to switch to ANG for UPT). Anywho...
Step #1: Obtain a UPT slot with a Guard unit. You will have much more credibility throughout the process with an O-6 (ANG Wg/CC) backing you up (writing letter of recommendation/intent). Also, my Palace Chase paperwork specifically said, "Released from Active Duty pending successful completion of Undergraduate Pilot Training." Again, much easier to plead your case when you've already got a unit and UPT slot lined up.
Step #2: Obtain support of your AD Wing Commander (he is the one that signs the base-level portion of the form). In my case, I was already on good terms with my AD Wg/CC, having been through the UPT process on AD (was #1 in the wing when the reg changed limiting folks to 5 years commissioned service, thus making me ineligible to compete) Anwyay, he already knew who I was from previous applications, so no suprise when my Palace Chase crossed his desk. I will add that my Sq/CC supported me as well and had already talked me up to the Wg/CC before any of my applications went up the chain. Bottom line: do good work at your current/future location and obtain their support. Without it, you won't Palace Chase.
Step #3: Hope for the best. Your timing will be pretty good, as the Active Duty is 3900 Officers over their end strength right now (per a conversation last week w/ the Recce/U2/UAV assignments Officer at AFPC). The AD is really looking to get rid of folks right now, so this could be win-win. It boils down to "Palace Chase me now to UPT and keep me in the 'Total Force' for 10 more years. Otherwise, I lose this opportunity and will separate completely in 2 years." Sounds like an ultimatum, which it is, but it makes good personnel sense for the AF to retain you. The only real problem I see is that the AF will want to get their money's worth out of your intel training. But, if you have a UPT slot already lined up it should be a no-brainer.
Lastly, how old are you? Reason being that if none of this works you can always just wait out your intel ADSC and apply once you are 'free and clear'. The longer you are on AD, the easier it will be to Palace Chase and also the easier to get hired by an ANG unit (more stuff to fill a resume'). So if it doesn't work out, don't jump off a bridge or anything!
Good luck! Let me know if you want any more specifics. I can dig up my old forms if you need the form #'s or anything. I believe that the AFPC contact for Palace Chase is CMSgt Allick. Don't know if she's still there or not, but she was incredibly helpful.
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Not to add to the hype, but that pretty much agrees with what I've been told by my unit and the Commander here at AMS.
The Bureau has pulled back MPA and ADSW days from just about everyone and is telling them not to expect anything "until possibly FY06 or later". My days here would have been pulled back, but my orders had already been cut so they let me take the tour.
I've talked to the folks back home about getting orders for FY05 to complete my upgrade training and was told it would have to be done on FTPs and UTAs due to there being no days available. Rumor has it that the NGB is WAYYY in the hole $$$$-wise this year and is trying to recoup their losses/funding by pulling the days back.
Of course, these stories are from just two units. Your experience may vary (hopefully for the better!)
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A quick look at the "bible" (AFI 36-2205) has yielded the following info. I should note that it appears the verbage concerning Navigators in conversion units being accepted up to 34 years old [for UPT] has been removed from the reg.
1.1.6. Applicants must not exceed their 30th birthday or 5 years beyond their Total Federal Commissioned
Service Date (TFCSD), by the start date of the board’s first available UFT class. For those
applicants who exceed the above criteria, and had at least one opportunity to compete for UFT, commanders
must justify why supporting a waiver on an individual over other qualified candidates who
meet the criteria is in the best interest of the Air Force. For waivers to be considered, the applicant
must document an Air Force administrative, counseling, or medical error occurred within the last 2
years that prevented the applicant from applying for UFT.
NOTE: See Attachment 2 for age and
commissioned service waiver procedures. If the applicant can justify a waiver using this criteria, they
must submit a complete copy of the UFT application, to include a completed flying class I/IA physical,
certified by HQ AETC/SGPS, with the request for an age or TFCSD waiver processed through the
applicant’s immediate Squadron/CC, Wing/CC, NAF/CC, and MAJCOM/CC, and forwarded to HQ
AF/DPFMF, 1040 Air Force Pentagon, Washington DC 20330-1040, for processing and forwarding to
CSAF for final action. All waivers are reviewed on an individual basis and, if approved, allow the
applicant a one-time opportunity to compete for UFT. If the requested age or TFCSD waiver is
approved by CSAF after the board cut-off date, the applicant will be eligible to compete on the next
selection board. The disapproval authority within the MAJCOM chain of command for age or TFCSD
waiver is vested in the MAJCOM/CC. If the application is disapproved, it will be returned to the
applicant. ANG waiver requests must be processed through the State Adjutant General to HQ ANG/
DP. If the request is disapproved, it will be returned to the applicant’s state headquarters, who will forward
to the applicant’s unit. AFRC waiver requests must be processed through HQ AFRC/DPMB.
The CSAF may delegate the approval authority for all age and commissioned service waiver requests.
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The San Antonio FSDO apparently has their feces consolidated. They got the MU-300/BE-400 on my ticket without incident (in Oct 03).
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The AF issues the infamous "G-Shock" watch to all nav and pilot students.
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At XL, they offered the Commercial/Instrument/Multi-Engine (w/type rating for T-1 folks) course for $125. Show up some Saturday morning, study as long as you like (a pared-down FAA question bank), take a practice test, then take the actual test.
Assuming you pass (I was told no one has ever failed), they'll give you the test results sheet you need. Take that, along with a letter from your commander verifying your flight experience (this was provided to every graduating student "automatically") to the local FSDO (San Antonio for XLers) and they'll hook you up.
On a side note, the new FAA licenses are pretty sweet...credit card type with a pic of Orville and Wilbur on the back!
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You can't forget that BILLETTING will drive your cross country...at least it did at XL! If we couldn't get on-base lodging rates, the DO wouldn't approve it. That may have changed in the last 6 months, but definitely something to ask about prior to spending 40 hours planning that great cross country to vegas (been there done that..in a TWEET!)
One last comment...in TONEs, Chuck and I had a GREAT plan to RON in St. Louis. Decent weather, rooms and transpo taken care of, an FBO with fuel contract and 24 hour service. CNXd by the FAIP..."because I don't feel comfortable flying into Class B airspace". WTF!?! In a $4M jet with every bell and whistle. YGBSM. Guess it was better to make that call rather than getting in over his head (STS) but IMHO any AF pilot can handle Class B at night (vectors ILS full stop).
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Good news on the selling back of leave for us ANG folks. If you are on contingency orders (ONE, OEF, OIF, etc) any leave you sell back DOES NOT count against your 60 days career total. Also, if you are on orders for less than 365 days you can sell back without pentaly (just learned that from our finance guys last week - aparently that is a recent change to the reg).
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I asked the AMS Director of Operations that same question...and here's what she told me:
- Longer days for AMS. Not much free time throughout the day to workout, study, prepare briefings, etc. Basic day seems to be 0600 to 1800 or so for the students at AMS.
- A few less briefings. Specifically, some of the UCMJ, PCS, TDY briefs that are basically Active Duty focused information that's not all that applicable to ANG/AFRES people.
She was adamant that the programs cover basically the same material, with those couple of exceptions. Looks like the AFRES leadership is starting to agree...they're sending some of their UPT folks there right now.
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I agree that you at least want to wait until you get your assignment before buying that great LT Mobile. It would suck to drop $25k on a Mustang (or other rear wheel drive car) and then get that much-desired assignment to Grand Forks or Minot and not be able to drive the thing for 6 months a year.
As far as brining your shiny new ride overseas...there's the potential for damage when shipping there/back, the fact that Japan uses right hand drive cars (and the left side of the road), and just the additional hassle of having to worry about it (shipping, damage, etc). If it were me, I'd fly over there and drop $2k on a beater car that I can sell for $2k when I leave after 3 years of abuse.
As a side note, you can't get RC-135s to Kadena straight out of UPT. You have to do a tour at Offutt first (3 years or more). That's not to say you won't be TDY there so much you think you've PCSd....
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Hmm...looks like there is a difference between what the regs say and what happens "in the real world". I am shocked and outraged! haha Whatever gets the job done, so long as it doesn't roast my nuts or cause my jet to explode.
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Yep...the pubs issue place at your UPT base. You'll have plenty of time to learn the stuff once you get there. My advice would be to relax and enjoy life now because you won't have one if/when you're at UPT. $.02
"Live by the gouge, die by the gouge". Be wary of what you get from unofficial sources. The BOLDFACE changes all the time (student harassment program, I think) and it would really suck to learn it one way then have it change right before you actually NEED to know it (harder to un-learn something than to learn it).
$.02 more for a total of $.04 on this post.
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You've also got to watch out for the "Phone Colonel". When I was working @ the pentagon, I used to get calls all the time from guys who would start the conversation with, "This is 'colonel' so-and-so and I need you to get me _whatever_ RIGHT AWAY". Come to find out, after checking the Global Address list, they're only a Lt Col trying to get something past you. Yah..whatever buddy. I'll see your O-5 and raise you two O-6s and an O-7!
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You're a senior in college? You should spend more time partying, because you obviously have way too much free time ;)
Noses cold is a call that fighters make prior to coming up to the tanker, referring to forward firing armament and radars typically (i.e. safe/turned off).
From KC-135 T.O. 1-1C-1-3, "Except when security would be compromised, a verbal hot armament check will be accomplished between the tanker and receiver during the 15 minute prior to ARCT call."
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What is the likelihood of going to UPT after the AF has sent you to AFIT? I'm sure it can be done, but can't imagine that there's a huge number of people doing it (STS).
I'd always be worried that once I went to AFIT, the AF would send me to the infamous Engineering Dungeon at Wright-Pat, never to be seen again, let alone go to UPT.
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"Land a little slow and you'll drop out of the sky and pound onto the concrete" Gee, I bet NONE of us have ever done that! haha I've played "I hate the runway" more than once! In contrast, the -135 is between 20-30% above stall speed in landing configuration, which is a very good thing.
Getting back to topic...
There were defintely a couple of guys in our class that shouldn't have made it through. My only hope now is that a few years as a copilot will bring them up to speed. Fortunately, the weaker guys are usually identified pretty quickly and are paired up with "strong A/Cs" until they get their feces consolidated. The problems start occuring when you have a "weak copilot" with a "weak A/C" (due to scheduling, DNIF, or whatever)...now what? The fact that most squadrons try to schedule around people that shouldn't have made it through UPT in the first place worries me - because, inevitably, that sort of 'safety scheduling' will break down and someone might get hurt. I'm sure the heavy world isn't alone in this - you fighter types see a lot of this?
Lastly - Metalhead...you're right on target. Couldn't agree more. Guess they AF figures that by the time you're in T-1s it's better to get a bad copilot out of the deal rather than spending $1M and getting nothing.
[ 20 February 2004, 02:46: Message edited by: Bergman ]
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Seems that inability to monitor airspeed in the final turn, not clearing for traffic (up to 12 Tweets in the pattern at once!), or being so focused on airspeed/altitude that other things start falling out of your crosscheck (radio calls, correct checklist page, etc). That sort of thing. I know that might sound far-fetched (it did to me when all i had was 70 hours in PA-28s/C-172s), but there is a world of difference between a T-37 at 200 knots and a -172. The IPs hold you to a much higher standard. I distinctly remember a "conversation" I had with an Autstralian IP:
Him: "What airspeed are we supposed to be at?"
Me: "200 KNots"
Him: "What airspeed are we at?"
Me: "202 knots"
Him (literally screaming) "Why aren't you *ucking fixing it then!?!!"
Also keep in mind that 10% is about the going rate for washouts, so the vast majority of people are able to get it figured out and succeed.
Hopefully an IP will respond to this thread, as they are the ones who actually know what they're talking about...
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My class of 28 people had 2 washout in T-37s, one pre-solo the other pre-midphase (the checkride that determines if you can go solo to the MOA).
Both of them washed out due to "basic aircraft control" - they couldn't maintain the proper airspeed in the final turn, would overshoot the runway every approach, and couldn't maintain airspeed or alitutde while enroute to/from the MOA. It was very frustrating to me personally because I spent quite a bit of time chair flying with both of these guys...but it comes to the point where they have to fly the jet alone, and if your brain just doesn't process information fast enough (cross checking a/s, alt, VVI, etc) no amount of preparation will help. With enough time, I believe both of those guys could have flown fine, but UPT isn't very forgiving to slow learners.
[ 16 February 2004, 21:12: Message edited by: Bergman ]
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You can look up the length of any AF formal school in AFI 36-2223. I would have looked it up, but my IP was blocked (probably a .mil only link).
If you're a T-6 student, you would almost certainly be a T-6 FAIP. Reason being that by the time you finish UPT, PIT, then survival, the base you are at will have finished its conversion to T-6s. Other than going to Moody, if you FAIP you now stay at the base where you went to UPT.
It's a matter of opinion, but a FAIP tour probably would be a good time to start a family. 3 years with no OCONUS TDY! And when you are TDY it's only 2-3 days at a time.
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IMHO the "no follow-on" policy has got to be the #1 reason to NOT be a FAIP. You get to work like a dog, in competition with all of your friends and peers, for an entire year at pilot training. Then, once you've graduated, you find out you get 3 more years of that competition. Of course, everyone wants to get their top pick after their FAIP tour, so they work their asses off for "the man" during that 3 years, then end up getting screwed (potentially) with a crappy assignment anyway. Hell, you could get your last choice of assignment without busting your ass for 3 years. (seems to me that UPT IPs work WAAYY harder (STS) and longer days than your average line-squadron aviator).
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I will ditto what AG mentioned about letters of recommendation. The letters do weigh into the decision. I had three - from current and former commanders and my -172 flight instructor (who happened to be OGV/CC at the time). My unit called all of them after my interview, before the final decision. Some units may not call, but just prepare the people you get letters from so they're not surprised if/when they get a call.
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I Palace Chase'd about 18 months ago. I've got a few points for you to ponder:
1) The functional manager will most likely NOT recommend Palace Chase. I talked to mine directly and he made no qualms about telling me that. Of course, this was in a rated career field. It might be easier for non-rated types to leave. The bottom line is, I was approved for Palace Chase even though my functional manager and his boss both recommended disapproval.
2) Before your package (STS) gets to the functional manager/AFPC, it has to leave the Wing. In my interview with the WG/CC (he met with anyone applying for this sort of thing), he told me that he was only supporting my application because I already had an ANG UPT slot arranged (and a letter from my ANG WG/CC to prove it). If you're just trying to leave with no cross over to the ANG, it might be difficult if not impossible.
3) Even though I did get the Palace Chase, it was only for 6 months early release (kinda like from prison!). I was told by the Palace Chase people at AFPC that 4-6 months is the longest time to request with any hope of getting approved. Of course, individual results may vary. You know the AF - as the people change every 2 years, the policies change!
AF Acronyms
in General Discussion
Posted
Back in my nav school days, after getting fed up with being forced to use acronyms rather than just remembering what you needed to do, we invented the BULLSHIT check:
B - weather
U - Holding
L - Obtain clearance
L - Letdown plate review
S - Descent check
HIT it - let's go
We thought it was funny, at least. 96-09 baby!