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BamaC-21

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Posts posted by BamaC-21

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Also on PSDM 14-08 (right below the part you quoted):

    "If an officer has an ADSC, the applicant will provide justification for a waiver."

    PSDM 13-130 doesn't mention a waiver anywhere, so this new guidance in confusing at best. Also, the guy I spoke to at AFPC didn't even know 14-08 existed! I brought up all the discrepancies and he said he will have to get back to me. Who the f*$% is piloting this Exxon Valdez known as AFPC??!! I fully expect the clown show to continue.

    I emailed AFPC via the vMPF link today to ask about the discrepancies across the PSDM's and to ask exactly what time the application window will open on the 6th or 7th. I got a credible response back last time, so hopefully it'll work this time too.

    FWIW....concerning the application window, I read a FAQ list that was forwarded to the Sq from our CC that listed the application window as 6 Feb.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I'm seeing two different VSP application start dates in the updated PSDM 13-130. Page 1 and attachment 10 indicate 6 Feb. Attachments 1 & 6 show 7 Feb. So which one is it? I know AFPC is saying the VSP is not "first come/first served". But my gut tells me when the flood gates open I want be one of the first to click 'Submit'.

    PSDM 14-08 (VSP) says 6 Feb in a couple of places. Also, what time do they start accepting applications on the 6th/7th? They took the time to define 2359 CST as the cut-off for letters to the board, but nothing for the application window.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    The path that I took to enter the USAF was extremely difficult and most told me it was an impossible dream. I chased a lifelong dream and wouldn't let anything in the world stand in the way of achieving it. During OTS and UPT, my level of passion and dedication to the Air Force was beyond measure. The pride and sense of duty that I felt every waking moment was extraordinary. I prayed that I would be able to serve at least 20 years. All of this was elevated to a new level when my dedication and hard work rewarded me with my fighter assignment. I walked on water.

    Holy sh*t that's patriotic! I got in to build flight time. Thanks for making me feel like a communist.

    The AF has turned flying, something that man has dreamed of doing since we were wearing loin cloths and pointing at birds in the sky, and made it so unappealing that some people are willing to do anything to not have to do it anymore. It's impressive, really.

    • Upvote 2

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I've heard that grumbling as well...that it "creates an error"...however, my Sq/CC said he received it just fine. I'd imagine that error is if the wing sends it to AFPC early...it's not like this is a new application, anyone can apply for separation at any given time with the same form.........however, i realize i am trying to apply logic here.

    I haven't seen the form or heard about an error, I just thought that since it's auto-generated, it would list your application date as the day you hit submit, not the day it travels through the wing. I wouldn't have thought twice about it had the AFPC guy not mentioned it out of the blue in my email response.

    You're right that logic probably won't apply here....

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    awesome....my base said we could apply early and they would send it to AFPC on the 14th when the window opened so myself and many others already submitted our packages.....

    that's going around at my deployed location too.....i just figured it was wrong and went with what was in the PSDM

    +1 to that. Wouldn't be surprised if the formula changes in the new PSDM though.

    Also FWIW... I asked AFPC a VSP question two days ago using the link on MyPers. The guy answered it referencing the unreleased PSDM and mentioned applying during the application window. If you haven't already submitted paperwork to be held at the Wg, it might be worth thinking about waiting until the application window officially opens to hit submit. It seems reasonable to me that they'd use your application date to determine eligibility vs the date your Wg/CC signs it. Probably a ridiculous detail, but why give them a reason to deny you?

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by BamaC-21

    Spot on PanchBarnes!

    Sooo, all of us cynical mid to upper-level captains had a CC call with the AETC/CC today. The majority of the question and answer session focused on the force management programs being implemented and we actually had a senior leader admit to the fact that they are "learning as they go" with this one. I would have expected an answer better than that, but then again, this is the Air Force personnel system. Well the question was brought up about us pilots applying for VSP or getting RIF'ed. He stated that we are too valuable of a commodity and that only a very small percentage of us will be let go even if we showed as eligible on the matrix. He even said that wing commanders should also be denying any VSP requests from pilots, and our wing commander was sitting right in front of him when he said that, so there goes our chances. My understanding is that the VSP application can still go up, but chances are reduced of getting out if the WG/CC denies it. My question is why in the heck do we have to be told this now? Big Blue loves to play we have a little secret. Why could this not be mentioned on myPers? Furthermore, if we are a commodity, why the heck even put us as eligible on the matrix? Has anyone else heard about pilots not having a good shot at the VSP?

    I guess it is good that we find this out now before we show our cards and get hosed over for the rest of our time in the AF.

    To tell you the honest to God truth, though, the best (and most accurate) information about this Charlie Foxtrot force management program has been found on these forums and not by our leadership. Keep the information rolling guys!

    Good on them for giving you guys a CC call to ask questions. That said, if you're 100% set on getting out, don't shy away from applying based on the opinion and public comments from a guy who has a vested interest in discouraging you from trying to leave. You're on the matrix and there's nothing in any unreleased memo about WG/CC approval being a determining factor in your application. Do what's best for you and your family, but you KNOW you won't be approved if you don't apply.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Anyone else think the '05ers are going to get hit pretty hard this time around? Seems like a perfect storm with most of '04 being ineligible and the delay of the '05 promotion board. Ol' blue probably sees a good opportunity to get rid of a lot of guys before they pin on major. Maybe just wishful thinking since I'm an '05er looking to vsp.

    Also, what is up with that statement about processing vsp on a monthly basis? Not first in first out, but your best opportunity will be to apply during the first month?

    Fingers crossed...

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    I saw that statement, but haven't seen any timeline besides what's on the VSP pp slide. If AFPC is processing in batches, it would follow that you should know if you're approved within 30 days. The batch process seems like a way to slow the flow of applicants so we don't all apply at 12:01 am. If it's a monthly timeline, I'm concerned about sq & wg processing times if the cc's get an approve/disapprove vote. Even if their votes don't matter, it's still an opportunity to get slow-rolled. Unlike Palace Chase, I didn't see a statement in this PDSM that says cc's must process applications in a timely manner. You'd think it wouldn't have to be included, but that's another conversation.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Ok, so I just heard that my Wg/CC will resist any attempt to get out by his 11M members, due to his perception that we are "critically manned." Whether or not he can actually do this, the perception is created that members who volunteer to VSP or introduce a DNR letter in a RIF are not "team players." Anyone else hearing things from their leadership that is running counter to Big Blue's force shaping initiatives?

    Great leadership. I can't believe anyone would want out of an organization like that. If you get push-back, call the IG. That's assuming you can take the purely coincidental shitty ranking that will follow.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    5680 x 12 months = $W (68160)

    $W (68160) x Airman’s TAFMS (yrs/mths of svc) (9.5) = $X (647520)

    $X (647520) x 10% (full separation pay) = $Y (64752)

    $Y (64752) x 1.25 multiplier = $Z (final voluntary separation pay) $80,940

    Example (showing as DFAS calculates): An officer with 9 yrs and 6 months of total active federal military service [($5680 monthly base pay) x 12 x 114 ( total whole months served) x (10%)] divided by 12= $64,752 (RIF). For VSP, multiply by 1.25 = $80,940.

    Both give the same number.

    Thanks. Like I said....

    I think it has to do with the multiple 12's, TAFMS being 12 years, and me being an idiot.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    You said 9.5 years for your TAFMS. What base pay are you using?

    Also, completely ignore the fact that the example says base pay x 12 years. It should only say x 12. That part of the equation is NOT dependent upon how much time you have served. That may be where some of the confusion lies.

    Example (showing as DFAS calculates): A Major w/ 12 yrs and 3 months and 13 days of total active federal military service [($6540.60 monthly base pay) x 12 years x 147 ( total whole months served) x (10%)] divided by 12= $96,146.82 (RIF). For VSP, multiply by 1.25 = $120,183.52.

    Base pay = $5680 Math is hard.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by BamaC-21

    It seems to me they added an extra 12 in there. In the formula, the 147 is your years.months of service (12.25 in this case) multiplied by 12 (months/year) to get time served in months. In the example formula, they don't really need the first 12 in there, which is why they decide to divide by 12 again at the end, to negate it. Basically, figure out years.months of service, multiply by 12 to get months, then multiply that by your base pay, multiply by 10%, then multiply by 1.25 for VSP. (or you could just multiply total years of service by 12 to get months (12 years*12 months/year = 144 months), then add your extra months to that and you'll end up with the same number to plug in, 147 in this case)

    clear as mud?

    Your formula gives the same 80k as the memo. Oh well, either way pays off the minivan.....

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by BamaC-21

    Here's another way to look at it. Convert TAFMS to a number, but only full months count. For example, 15 years 7 months would be 15.58333 (repeating of course).

    Recommend using this:

    Basic pay x 12 x TAFMS x 10% x 1.25 = final VSP

    Monthly Basic Pay x 12 months = $W

    $W x Airman’s TAFMS (yrs/mths of svc) = $X

    $X x 10% (full separation pay) = $Y

    $Y x 1.25 multiplier = $Z (final voluntary separation pay)

    -or-

    10% x 1.25 x 12 mths x basic pay x TAFMS = final VSP

    10% (full separation pay) x 1.25 multiplier = W

    W x 12 mths = X

    X x monthly basic pay = $Y

    $Y x TAFMS (yrs/mths of svc) = $Z (final voluntary separation pay)

    I'm ridiculously bad at math, but I get some pretty different numbers using these formulas vs the ones in the VSP memo. Your formula gives $96k, but plugging my numbers into the memo, I only get 80k. I think it has to do with the multiple 12's, TAFMS being 12 years, and me being an idiot. There's also a random division by 12 at the end of the example, but not in the text. WTF. The example 12 year Major gets $120k, so it seems like your number might be correct for me at 9.5 years TAFMS.

    Whatever. I'd get out for free, so this is just gravy.

    I SHOULD be surprised that something as simple as the payout formula would be convoluted, expecially considering this is a financially-motivated program. Either way, here's the text from the memo. Somebody smarter than me, please take a look.

    2. The FY14 VSP program entitles FY14 RIF-eligible officers 1.25 the rate of full separation pay. Those officers non-selected for retention by the RIF board will be entitled to full separation pay at the standard rate. The formula for calculating full separation pay is as follows: member’s monthly base pay multiplied by 12, then multiplied by the years of total federal military service (TAFMS) and all whole months served over the total years, then multiplied by 10%. When computing total years of TAFMS, only use whole months. Whole months are calculated as fractions of 12 months. For instance, 12 years and three months equates to 12 and ¼ years. Multiply 12 and ¼ times 12 to produce the total whole months served, which equates to 147.

    Example (showing as DFAS calculates): A Major w/ 12 yrs and 3 months and 13 days of total active federal military service [($6540.60 monthly base pay) x 12 years x 147 ( total whole months served) x (10%)] divided by 12= $96,146.82 (RIF). For VSP, multiply by 1.25 = $120,183.52.

    FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I'm facing a 365 that's why I'm hoping I can VSP.

    From the mypers help section

    Thank you for contacting the myPers - Total Force Service Center via the E-mail Us option. Officer VSP is one of the projected programs under the FY14 Force Management however, no guidance has been released as of yet. It is currently projected to start in Jan 2014 but that is subject to change. Once specific details are available, AFPC will provide official personnel messages and public news releases that will be posted on www.afpc.af.mil and www.af.mil. At that time, Airmen will be able to visit myPers at https://mypers.af.mil to read the personnel messages and guidance on eligibility and applications.

    Good to know. I'm also on the hook for a 365, and the VSP window details weren't clear.

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