LettersVSandP

I just got off the phone with the TFSC. He said I don't have an answer because officer notifications had to go out manually and those that haven't gotten one yet would be notified by the end of the week. So, that's their current talking point. Congrats to those approved, good luck to those waiting, and God have mercy on the poor bastards denied. '05 11M UPT ADSC only

It could be that they met their goal for '05 via voluntary measures or it could be that they don't want to have a RIF for similar reasons that '04 was never going meet a RIF board in FY14. They were already selects and non-selects. They don't want to get rid of the selects and the non-selects are already leaving the YG relatively soon anyway. Now '05 is meeting our promotion board (finally), and the RIF board is so close to the same time that it's redundant. Remember, these programs are to meet end strength over the next 5 years and they're front-loading the programs to get it done now, but if somebody is up-or-out in 4 years, that's 5 year plan met. Keep in mind the answer to many of these questions is literally nobody knows and even if they did, it wouldn't matter because they're going to change again next month.

My guess based on absolutely no information is that they'll rack and stack each year group and the only thing that will matter is when your last ADSC runs out. Because as my used-to-fly-a-moose colleague points out, AFPC is a bunch of half-wits that couldn't handle anything more complicated.

I think we're going to see a moderate number of rated VSPs approved over the next few days and many YG/AFSCs taken out of the mix for RIF. I doubt they want to cut rated numbers so much as they want it to seem like everybody is feeling the cuts. We wouldn't want the shoe force to get their feelings hurt or they'll never process my travel voucher. Approve my laundry expenses motherf&%$#&s!

Yeah...every day takes longer when deployed, though.

Sorry, for those of you who were denied recently. My VSP is still awaiting "adjudication". I'm wondering if your CMS status changed from "Referred to Voluntary Separation BPO" at any point. Mine changed to "Referred to Voluntary Separation Pay Off" a few weeks ago and I'm hoping this is where approved applications go to wait for Adjudication Day (May 1st). Anyone who has been approved notice the progression of offices your application went through? I think we're smarter than AFPC and can figure out their Rube Goldberg device. Note: I'm talking about CMS and not the status on your application in the Separations application. That hasn't changed for me since it passed my Wg/CC and says "Referred to BPO". Obviously, I'm quoting from memory because vMPF is down yet again. Fortunately, I've looked at these statuses so often, I'm fairly certain I remember them.

You may have been queued for approval 1 May and they made your YG ineligible because they had enough applications (including yours). I wouldn't abandon all hope. Now that I've expressed support for our friend and colleague, let the good-natured mockery of his email begin... But nobody sign him up for any biker porn newsletters!

If I were you, I'd go to your local FSS and ask the highest ranking person available to call AFPC with you. I'd also adopt the mindset that I wouldn't leave their building until I had an answer of some kind. Your CC also ought to be involved. That being said, I don't think you have an issue. If you take a look at the ADSC AFI, I think you'll find that you have 7 days to accept the assignment. You have to sign an acknowledgement of the ADSC you'll be incurring, but you don't have an ADSC at that point. You would acquire the ADSC when you actually PCS. Therefore, if you get accepted for TERA, your assignment is cancelled and you're never assigned a PCS ADSC. Presumably, there's language in the TERA PSDM that assignments are cancelled when TERA is approved. Hope that helps and good luck.

Apology? That's nice and all, but they deserve to retire exactly as previously approved. And I'd imagine they're going to get really vocal in agreement of that point of view if somebody in charge doesn't overrule this ridiculous (and possibly unlawful) "take back".

There's an interesting statement in the Q&A for the voluntary matix on MyPers. I wish I'd copied it when I was on a computer with a CAC reader, but it says when the blocks go red, the AFSC/YG won't meet a RIF board. Maybe somebody can grab the exact wording for everyone. Have we finally found out how many times the SECAF and CSAF have to say something before the middle managers actually follow their guidance? (Only have a RIF board if there aren't enough volunteers.) I was planning to submit a "RIF me" letter to the board if my VSP application was denied...again. If MyPers can be believed (they can't, but here's hoping), those of us who have applied for VSP wouldn't meet a RIF board. We'd either have our VSP approved or run out of overage and a RIF board wouldn't be necessary. On another bit of good news, with only 1,400 VSP applications, it seems likely that 550 waivers is enough to cover most if not all of the people requesting one. Some fraction of the applicants are eligible based on YG/AFSCs. Some fraction of those applicants are rated. Some further fraction of those applicants have an ADSC other than the ones listed in PSDM 13-65. It seems to me that final number would be less than 550. For you nerds out there, this is a logical argument anologous to the Drake equation. If you don't know what that is and want to, look it up yourself. I'm not wikipedia.

Phrasing!

same

Note: At no point does he take personal responsibility for failure. I guess it was just bad luck all those dishonest junior officers ended up at his otherwise awesome wing. /sarcasm

I believe that my esteemed colleague of the tiny Cessna flying persuasion is trying to say that our senior managers have failed utterly at this program so far. Does anyone know for sure that they're not going to be told by some AFPC E-5/GS-7 that they're somehow ineligible? Does anybody know what criteria they're going to use in order to select from among those eligible? Does anyone know when or how they'll find out about the next several years of their life? Without being able to answer these reasonable and essential questions, we are nowhere after three months. As we stumble around in the dark as effectively as we can, let's not forget it's pathetic that there is no light.

I just created a new application. I don't know if that was the right decision, but I couldn't take the waiting. Whenever you reapply, you should use the new statement of understanding from 14-08.

The woman I talked to didn't seem to know anything. She wasn't aware of any impending ADSC waiver authority being granted and she said there was no way to do anything with an application after it was denied, so I would need to reapply. For what its worth, my old application with the earlier time stamp is still listed under previous applications.

I called AFPC today and heard a completely different story, but you make a compelling argument, so I resubmitted my application.

They changed the PSDMs two days before the window opened adding that little reference to 13-65. That reference was only in the VSP PSDM and not in the RIF PSDM, 13-130. Why would we think 13-130 applied to those of us eligible for the RIF? Because AFPC said that was what RIF eligible individuals should go by. Moreover, 13-130 described eligibility and procedures for applying for the VSP and it said explicitly the same as the SECAF and CSAF have been saying: if you're RIF eligible, you're eligible for the VSP. Additionally, the VSP eligibility matrix lists us as eligible while everyone in our year group has an ADSC. So, on the one side we had one statement in a PSDM that AFPC was saying didn't apply and on the other side we had all manner of evidence and reason. As for consequences, we'd already told our bosses we wanted out. There was no downside difference and a huge upside difference between applying and not applying. Only a complete idiot would've not applied at that point. Lawyered Thanks for posting. Somebody has to make up for the inadequacy of AFPCs communication. If only they had a website or something...

I heard from my chain of command today that people denied due to ADSC will be able to resubmit their original application; much like adding a new document to an existing application without having to route it through Sq and Wg Commanders. You'd think it would also have the original time stamp on it. Of course, this is assuming AFPC has been granted the waiver authority and I don't have an email chain originating from AFPC, so I'm just passing along the rumor at this point. In the absence of actual guidance, it's the best we can do. (That should be our new third core value.)

What global threat are we facing and how are our efforts decreasing this threat? No five nations could pose a credible existential threat to our nation. Terrorism isn't going away either way and we should be taking steps to prevent it, but we've gone off the rails in proportionality. 100 times as many Americans have died in car accidents as terror attacks over the last 15 years. Spending $100B in Afghanistan over the next ten years might lead to a stable country, but Americans would be better off if that money were spent to make North America energy independent or to cure cancer. China might be rising, but they have a billion people poor people and rampant corruption. Russia clings to power as the old Soviet block is racing to join the Eurozone. The 21st century demands a small agile military; not the big hollow one they're creating. Chizzzz, I hear they can't afford to lose any enlisted or tac airlift pilots.

I could make much more money at any of several other jobs and my guess is that you could too. The only way the Air Force has been able to recruit top talent is because it offered unique intangible compensation. When they treat their people poorly, they erase those intangibles. Reducing the retirement post hoc comes to mind; as does involuntarily separating people while denying volunteers. When they do these things, they devalue being an Airman. I wasn't saying I'm not going to work hard because I'm a petulant child. I was saying I don't have any work to do. I fly just enough to stay current (not proficient) and my ground job work is proportionate to the number of hours my squadron flies, which isn't very many. They should reduce the number of airplanes and pilots if there isn't enough money to fly them. And they definitely shouldn't deploy pilots without missions to fly.

The Air Force doesn't pay that well. The best officers I know are all leaving the Air Force. Who do our senior leaders imagine will be the senior leaders of the future? Perhaps those left behind will rise to the challenge, but more likely they'll continue their mediocrity with greater consequences. Who will they be able to recruit? When a kid comes to you wanting to be a pilot, does anyone recommend joining the Air Force? When I was thinking about it, I asked retired guys from the '70s and '80s and they said it was the best time of their lives. I've had some good experiences to go with the bad, but I sure as hell wouldn't recommend it. There's little chance I'll be alerted at my deployed location to go fly, so I'll be checking for PSDMs to support resubmitting my application because the Air Force doesn't pay that well.

I think SecAF is considering it. The conversation and paperwork are trivial. Actually approving it is a significant decision given that billions of training dollars would be walking out the door. It seems that a new political appointee might not want to have that decision on her record if there's a pilot shortage in five years.

I'm an '05 11M that was in a UPT class full of '04 grads (i.e. I have a shorter ADSC than nearly everyone in my year group) and I was denied along with you. Things might change if SecAF grants the waiver authority, but until then, you're right. Currently, I don't think AFPC or even CSAF have the statutory authority to waive UPT ADSCs.

I'm not reading many posts from people concerned about getting fired. It seems like people are more interested in how quickly they can get out. After more than a decade of doing more with less, increasing deployment lengths with decreasing dwell time, and the Air Force being run into the ground by incompetent leadership, we want out. I'm voting with my feet that if they want to have a war, they need to fund it and have victory conditions. And if they want to have an all-volunteer force, they need to treat people better.