Troublemaker

Aren't we supposed to be held to a higher standard and represent the military both in and OUT of uniform? Maybe that's changed, I don't know.

You and I are actually discussing a topic that is a bit more complex than either of the simple Bible quotes we've used. It's easy to take quotes from the Bible out of context to make a particular point - that's why so many people in history were able to misuse and misinterpret the Bible resulting in the terrible actions some people have made reference to here. I have an excellent website that can address James 2 and the faith/works issue (and many other if you're interested): http://carm.org/grace-or-works Before you write off God, take a look at the site and use it to answer some of the questions you may have. It's certainly better than me, I'm no Bible scholar. God's actions in our life aren't always what we expect or think we need - just because he didn't do what YOU think he should of done in a particular situation isn't a good reason to disregard him. Take a look at the site.

I can understand why I confused you with my use of the word choice when discussing the race comparison. I meant it in the context that even though a gay person might be born that way, they still choose to act on their urges for lack of a better term (unlike an African America who simply is that way). God creates or allows lots of challenges for us all. Some are more difficult than others for sure. I'm not "asking" anyone to do anything. We're all born with the propensity to sin. That's who we are - fallen, flawed humans. So, the "gotta be myself and do what comes natural" argument isn't really going to wash when it comes to God. He has a plan for us all and I can't pretend to be in the know on it. He creates downs syndrome children, terminally ill infants, people with physical handicaps - it runs the gamut. Our free will allows many of us to make really poor decisions that put us in very difficult circumstances. Whatever challenge we face (whether we're born with it, create it ourselves or it finds us), he wants us to find our strength to deal with it through Him. Then our story of success through hardship glorifies Him and draws others to faith and similar success. Of course he loves us and wants to save us and fulfill his plan for each of us. Maybe the challenge is for a person with same sex attraction to not act on that, strengthen their faith and relationship with God and abstain. Maybe their faith and prayer results in a change to their attraction and they become a source of hope for other with the same struggle. I don't pretend to know. To be clear, the "ideals" you refer to are not mine and it's not my definition of right and wrong. I didn't right the Bible or make the declaration that a man should not lie with another man. I'm just trying to live by them.

Of course I see the difference. However, when someone argues that a homosexual should follow their urges simply because they were born with them, then the comparison is quite relevant. I agree with your hard core Libertarian view. There's a big difference between doing anything you want and asking the state/federal government (and by default the people who elected same) to support your efforts to "basically do anything I want". You want to screw some guy? Have at it. You want our government to recognize your marriage to him, files taxes with him, adopt children with him, etc. I can't support that. See the difference?

The authors of the books in the Bible still lived in a time when slavery was an accepted practice. The words and messages in the Bible are God inspired but God and his words in the Bible no more controlled the free will of those in Biblical times than they do now. The Catholic religion has its flaws and misinterpretations of the Bible because it's a man-made religion. I can show you plenty of scripture that supports what I said, such as: Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” Your friend will have to help me find the passages that talk about needing works or how saying the Lord's prayer X number of times after confession absolves your sins. Okay, so what's your plan then?

I don't think it's a conscious choice. I do think they were born that way. How else could someone deviate so far from normal, natural behavior? Homosexuals, addicts, alcoholics, pedophiles are all born with a predisposition toward their particular problem. I don’t see anyone jumping up and down fighting for a pedophile’s rights because they were born that way. Just because you are born with a deviant, destructive problem like those doesn’t mean you just get to “go with it”. You can claim homosexuality is equivalent to race until you’re blue in the face but it won’t make it so – one is a choice to pursue base desires in direct contrast to right and wrong while the other is simply a matter of how you look.

The Bible doesn't "allow" any of the things you listed. You are referring to information in the Old Testament in which there were societies that practiced some (but not all) of the things you listed. Just because an event in the Bible has those types of behaviors in it, doesn't mean the Bible is condoning such behavior. Often the Old Testament is used as a contrast to what occurred after Christ was born, walked among us and died sacrificially for us. In the Old Testament, when someone sinned, they were required to atone for those sins by sacrificing an animal in the form of a burnt offering to God. The animal symbolically took on the sins of the person. The Bible contrasts such ancient practices with God's ultimate and final decision to deal with our sins by sending his Son to symbolically take on all our sins and die for us. I won't argue that many men and women have misused and misinterpreted the information in the Bible over the centuries and caused great suffering and pain. That's on them and not due to some defect in the Bible or it's real teachings. Try actually reading it.

Lumping the Christian faith into the general melting pot of religion isn't really accurate. Religion (in terms of Christianity) is more about how you choose to practice. Being a Catholic, Methodist or Baptist is your religion. None are required - you can choose to follow Christ outside a particular denomination. Simple Christianity is nothing like what you just posted above. There's no amount of good anyone can do to be "rewarded". The reward you speak of, I assume, is forgiveness of sins and eternal life with God after you die. That "reward" is free and you can do nothing to earn it. All you have to do is believe and ask God to forgive your sins. Any good you choose to do is to make God's kingdom a better place, help believers and non-believers alike or any number of other reasons. You can't "lose" your salvation once you accept it and nothing you do can help you earn it. So, unfortunately, your whole post really makes no sense and shows how little you really understand about Christianity. Perhaps you should get some accurate facts and look into it yourself. You won't regret it.

Apples and oranges. Equating being gay and being black is an insult to our African American citizens and those who fought that fight. A choice someone makes in how they behave and actions they take can't be equated with someone's race. The gay side of this would love you to make that connection but you'd be wrong.

It's never OK to be gay. If you're asking if it's OK to have a great PJ or Viper pilot serve our country and work along side me in the USAF and be my friend, then yes - absolutely. If he wants me to tell him that I think the decisions he's making with respect to his sexuality are OK with me, I won't be able to do that. Anymore than I would be able to do the same for a friend with a drinking problem. I don't stop being his friend or trying to help him if I can, I just can't condone some of the choices he's making. I also shouldn't be expected to be "OK" with the fact that some of my tax dollars and public laws/policies are being used to support his choices. There's right and wrong in this world - free will and our country's freedoms allow us to choose wrong if we want. The mere fact that a minority of people in our society want to do something doesn't mean the majority have to support them or ignore our beliefs.

What some factions of our society are unwilling to acknowledge is that there are clearly defined areas of right and wrong. Just because something feels good, is the path of least resistance or is just what someone wants to do no matter what doesn’t make it right. They can still do it if they want, but we as a society don’t have to support them. If you are a Christian (which I am), you know the bible says same-sex unions are wrong. If you’re not, then just look at nature. Same sex stuff isn’t happening with animals. Our reproductive process doesn’t support same sex. It's an unnatural aberration. We feel disgusted when we see two guys kiss because it’s unnatural and our normal instincts to be attracted to a woman are in control. So, there’s obviously some genetic or mental issue going on with a gay person to give them this same-sex attraction. They don’t just decide to deviate from the natural norm on a whim. For whatever reason, God made them that way and it’s a cross they have to bear. I see them as no different than someone with an alcohol or drug addiction. The main difference is that some people can justify accepting gays and all that comes with it because it’s about something socially acceptable like love instead of addiction. There’s no one standing up fighting for addicts rights because most of society has acknowledged that their behavior is destructive and they have a problem they need help with. A larger portion of our society has acknowledged the same thing about same sex unions but you wouldn’t know it thanks to political correctness and the media. The mere suggestion that there might actually be something physically, genetically or mentally wrong to cause same sex attraction makes those on the other side of the argument lose their minds. Forget suggesting that someone in that situation might be helped to move past it or that they may just have to deal with a life of abstinence (like recovering addicts). Oh no! Everyone deserves love, right? If two men or two women want to be a couple, live together, etc. I could care less. Just like I really don’t care if someone wants to drink themselves to death or stick a needle in their arm every day. It’s their right to choose to do that. However, they shouldn’t expect society to pat them on the back and tell them we all think what they’re doing is just fine by allowing official marriages, adoptions, tax filing status, etc. No innocent child should be thrown into a situation via adoption where they are denied a father or mother because of the selfish desires of two misguided people. I don’t care if they serve in our military but, I will have a problem with some guy being a “dependent” of another male service member because they think they’re married. Do we give addicts tax breaks because they can’t work or encourage their destructive, unnatural behavior? No. We offer them help to stop and support and encourage them to turn their lives around. There’s no way this situation can be compared to racial integration. There’s nothing unnatural or deviant about someone’s heritage or race. Just because the gay movement, Hollywood and a bunch of feel-good liberal politicians are trying to force this issue into the mainstream and make everyone believe it’s the “new normal” doesn’t mean it has to be so.