hindsight2020
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Posts posted by hindsight2020
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Based on the responder's comments, it seems the justification behind taking away incentive pay stems from the idea that there are people on the outside lining up to perform these specialty AFSC/MOS. The problem with that logic is that the main complaint on the part of the members already in is their inability to be allowed to perform said duty as a preponderance of their time in the service. Put another way, *gasp* ....the AF sucks the fun out of it. So you need money to keep experience, in order to gain the discretion to mismanage said experience. Epic.
Here's an alternate scenario. How 'bout let people do their job til they're blue in the face and not fuck with them when they're at home. Nah, that would just be too fucking Burger King for the likes of senior leadership. Ah fuck it. Do something til it stops making sense to you and your family, or you get fired. Works for me. Y'all already did more than 99% of the pedestrians out there.
/choirpreach
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This study needs to be expanded to the total AD force.
Vocational frustration as a result of a mission of admitted "perennial political posturing" burning people out? QOL detractors related to an intolerable location not only having marked historic retention problems but also a documented tendency to literally make you punch your wife more often than your peers in Florida? Um....Is senior AF leadership fucking new? The only thing that raises an eyebrow for me is that they needed to pay RAND to find this out. Whynot Minot...
You could poll the entire Buff community in the Spring of 2008 and find similar tone and sources of causation for the god damn Trail of tears the community was [and is]. True story: academic instructor stands up on day one of academics and the first thing he asks the room was : "raise your hand if you put this assignment as your first choice out of UPT...". I almost started a golf clap, I couldn't believe someone went there on the first fucking day of school. UFB....(and yes, no one raised their hand.)
They [leadership] want to keep dismissing the moronically obvious rational incentives that drive human behavior? Well, they'll keep getting what they pay for. Shit I ought to apply to RAND, that looks like an easy way to make six figures spouting what the base gate A1C could have told you for free....
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The only people who will really bitch about this are Guard babies.
Right, because Guard babies are the reason AD Lite has become it's own cancer....
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Ran into a guy I knew from a previous assignment at an airline job fair. I told him I got out and I'm in AFRC enjoying life. He stayed in, made O-5 and got sent back to the base we had both been at 7-8 years ago. He's got about 12-18 months left till retirement, wasn't on the command list, so he's just waiting for his 20. Others we knew are also back at that base, but on the Fast Track.
He told me he did a 6 month deployment to the Deid...one of those "why am I here" jobs with no point...but he was an available body, so he got tagged. He got home, and six months later (just a week or so before the job fair) he's informed that they are deploying him to that SAME JOB again, for another 6 months.
He pleads with the O-6 to find someone else...he just did that deployment, and he's about to separate and is afraid deploying so close to his retirement will hurt his ability to find post-AF work. O-6 says sorry, but the other O-5s are fast burners and he can't spare them...to do so might inconvenience their rapid upward mobility. Never mind that some of them haven't deployed at all in 6-7 years.
I feel bad for him, but that's one reason why I got out. After doing a 365 in Iraq, I asked to go to the AETC squadron to have some time with family. Less than 18 months later, I was deploying on a 182-day tasking, even though there were several others who could deploy, and had not deployed in several years...but again, they were Golden Boys that the leadership didn't want to inconvenience with a deployment, so let's send the career flyer to the desert again even though he just got back from a 365.
When I protested that, I was told that since I volunteered for the 365, I "did it to myself". That was straight from the O-6. My counterpart hadn't deployed in 4 years but they refused to send him because he was an alternate for the Phoenix Mobility program.
So while I was deployed, I applied for Palace Chase and GTFO of the RegAF. Been happy ever since. Oh, and despite being the chief of flight safety with an excellent record (did great on the UCI, built several programs from the ground up, etc), the O-6 downgraded my separation medal from a MSM to a AFCM. My boss fought it until she PCS'd (I had already separated) but as soon as she was gone, they downgraded it and finalized it. I'm the only O-4 who PCS'd/separated from my wing without a MSM. I know pretty much for a fact it was downgraded out of spite because I punched from the AF. I wasn't "blue" enough, apparently.
Treating people this way is another reason why the AF will be pressed to retain people once the job market gets going again.
What a bunch of cocksuckers eh? This is the shit why I'm so glad I never went Active Duty. I've seen it done to my AD peers, and I know I wouldn't have lasted 6-9 years in RegAF. All those bullshit non-AFSC REMF-laden deployments would have cured me from serving. And just like in your experience, I've seen it happen on the AETC side, which was supposed to be the spool-down make-bang-bang with the wife/girlfriend time for these folks. Now it's the god damn 'transpo pool' for miscellaneous 179s to nowhere. Fuck that.
I tell those guys all the time, for the opportunity cost of losing 15 years (on average) of an annuity payout, you can skip over to the reserves and/or civil service and recoup the time served benefit at 60, and gain an incredible improvement in quality of life while focusing on the motivation that made you join in the first place: FLY. Anytime I'm feeling scoffed by AD-Lite shenanigans in the AFRC I mosey over to this thread and fast-cage back to wings level.
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Holy shit I would like to see a captain swing by the Reserve flight and try to give a ground eval for bullshitting or airline talk.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD
I know. It would be epic. "So Captain, stand up and tell us about yourself...." LOL
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However, we're not all stone cold killers. Remember the "everyone's a warrior" phase? It doesn't work to have different standards for different communities, and id love for us to all be killers. But we're not.
I fly herks. If I ever have to shoot someone it'll be with my M9 and we're having a really terrible day. I'm picking up what you're putting down-landing at Salerno on nvgs is my idea of a party. But how can we possibly relate the combat mission to support agencies? I went to finance yesterday and got there too late. Their hours are no shit 830-1500. I can't remember the last time I left work at 1630 unless I had an 0430 show the next day...
The "closed for training/pt/going away lunch/CC call/softball tournament" mentality does not equate to the A-10 CAS/fighter pilot let's kill migs mindset.
That architectural identity crisis has always been a defining part of the Air Force. The problem is as you suggest, the peacetime leadership's misguided attempt at providing the shoe a sense of belonging by chastising the trigger puller. In a true peer fight the shoe gets told to stfu. But this decade isn't gonna be it. As such it's the decade for corporate managers with an underlying testosterone deficiency to rule for a while. Remember the rule of life: it's all timing and luck in this life. There is no justice. Ill keep flying until they sideline me or fire me. Then ill go so something else. Fuck em.
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This is absolutely true...
But...what concerns me is in a bout 5-15 years the current "popularity" of the common soldier is going to wane and we will get a new generation in congress that mostly forgets or ignores the sacrifices that most of us have made during the last decade. Then military pay, retirement and benefits will be an easy target vs. vote getting entitlements.
I would really like to see them start to reform the retirement and health care systems now before it truly is crunch time. I would bet that most people in the military who know enough to care would much rather have a better and cheaper 401k type retirement plan from their date of initial entry. I've got less than five years left at this point and they paycheck for life sounds great but I dont know if its sustainable. I would rather walk when I'm ready with MY money than a have lifetime guarantee from the gov't .
Speak for yourself. I want the govt promise thank you very much. If I wanted a diluted retirement that I can't self fund after cost of living, I'd work for the airlines with a lot less bullshit.
Look, I know what you're saying. You want partial vesting because the proposition of staying to 20 is as secure as a baby fart during tornado season. But anybody who thinks you can get a 50 pct retirement in 30 years by doing a hands off contribution to some Miley mouse 401k on what they pay you these days is smoking glue. They'll never pay me wages to account for self funding, so fuck that concession. Now, you give me a B fund where the employer is te one who makes the contributions as a percentage of my pay grade, then hell yeah knock yourself out. But you're not touching my paycheck, otherwise that's a huge paycut and fuck I can do that at Olive Garden all by myself.
Besides. The proposition of recouping my active duty points on the civil service is not beneath me. I'd lick stamps with a smile at the post office for 5 years and get the whole god damn thing back. Never mind I can double dip at 60 on the reserve side. Where there's a will there's a way. Fuck 401ks
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Fuck, we're there. I'm already off base, off duty, off uniform, SOP. Nothing good ever comes out of sponsoring host wing functions or socializing of any kind on base, which my family already boycotts by default.. See how that unintended consequences bit works? Just doing my 9-5 jerb, boss.....
Drinking or socializing inside the fence, are y'all fucking new? LOL
Now let's all sing the NEW Air Force Song everybody! Sure got a catchy tune to it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-gqMpZroy8
Workin' 9 to 5
What a way to a livin'
Barely gettin' by
it's all takin'
and no givin'...............
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I GUARANTEE, beyond the shadow of any doubt that not only will a FAIP volunteer for this, but EVERY FAIP will be FIGHTING for the "opportunity" of this.
So what's your point?
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Duck,
Rated guys don't qualify for the force shaping programs (2 to 1 or 1 to 1) so 3 to 1 is the standard.
Don't sweat the 3 to 1 business. Nobody's keeping track of that ch$t...besides, most everybody goes to 20 good years. It's a no-brainer for a TR with airline aspirations. If it gets too painful there's always a better location you can roll over to in order to make the min run palatable. Best part-time job in the world, if money's not an object.
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I've had varying opinions of patches. But I had the general impression that patch=competence.
Hopelessly naive?
Community dependent. As a generality? Perhaps a bit naive, yes.
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You can be a nice guy and still be a douche, just sayin'. Next time maybe he should know his own regs before he tries to give a checkride and hook someone for not knowing/following the regs.
Got clarification from the guy with the A code. One boom was to be Q-3d for not reading the passenger brief verbatim from the script and the other one was getting Q-3d for his iPad. Shityounot.
He also made the comment in base ops that he had hooked a pilot the week before for forgetting to take off his wedding band. He sounds like a great guy, real big picture.
Yep, bullshit Q-3s. Another reason this job's in the toilet. Do the fighter guys mutilate their their young's FEF like this too, or is this a heavy thing?
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Saudi paid better than Del Rio. Also, better living conditions
Ouch bra'..kick a man when he's down.... :D
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Hell, I feel like an expat already, working and living in Del Rio.....Can't wait for the chance to move back home to bona fide America.
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-- Should I assume Cannon is the reason SOF's got a low take rate & MC-12 is the reason for C2ISR?
- Weirdly, the two communities with the healthiest take rates (CSAR & Bomber--91% & 74%, respectively) are the redheaded stepchildren of ACC. Somehow, being unappreciated seems to make folks wanna stay in. I don't get it.
You're not looking at it from an economics and rational incentives perspective. It's dirt simple actually.
As to count 1? Cannon.
As to count 2? Navs. And strike two on ACC. It's not at ACC; it's at AFGSC that the big refugee camp takes place.
If you need the rational incentives flowchart for those two counts explained, you're thinking too hard.
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Have I missed this gem being posted somewhere on baseops?
**bullshit letter**
This goddamn job has turned into such a bait-n-switch. Timing and luck.. you nemesis of mine!
This is what happens when you base your vocational aspirations on information off fuckin' 1980s military-themed movies....I shoulda been a dentist. fvck.
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I'd be pissed too if I woke up at 0400 and realized I lived in Clovis NM.....
[/stripot]
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Are your ARTs going to be GS-13s? Are they going to be straight 8s, 4,5,9s, 4x10s or max-flex? I've got some buds that might be interested if the pay/schedule is right.
I prolly just opened a can of worms for people that don't speak ART.
I can tell you why I don't think maxiflex or 4x10s will work and why this thing is such a hung start. But you'll have to PM me. I don't want to let that cat out open source. The Crown's jackals probably lurk on here...
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The two ART positions won't open until middle to late next year.
I believe there will be a mix of GS 13 and 14's...not sure of what step it will start on. Line guys would be a GS13 and leadership positions a GS14.
As for schedules, I think the most common scenarios would be either 4 x 10's with double IDTs on Friday, or straight 8's and use the IDTs for weekend XC flying.
We currently only have 1 ART in the 340th and he works up at the HQ level, so there is still some learning to be done wrt how an ART will work at the UPT line flying level.
Cheers,
Cap-10
Check PMs.
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Goes to show how shitty the morale is in AD, when people consider shaving a piddly 10 months off an ADSC or taking an ART job in DelAltuclovgordumbus as #winning. Meanwhile the dopes in DC still say they got this under control.
I'm not an airline wave fanboy, but I can't wait for the airlines to up the hiring by a mere RCH and just watch the wheels on the Blue bus come off the axle. It's gonna be like those movies where the armored car explodes and money rains from the sky and people run around re-enacting the fall of Saigon. Money and carte blánche assignments for all my friends. #winning
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That happens at Altus a lot.
Yep. And Laughlin as well.
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If I was faced with that PCS and I had kids of school age, I'd be putting the family in Lubbock and geobash that assignment until the next PCS/expiration of ADSC, whichever came first. No reason your family's well-being has to suffer just because the DOD is in the business of propping up the local economies of the lazy and unambitious.
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15 and counting U-28 guys in the past few weeks, over an assignment to Cannon.
I believe it. Bad enough when you're gone all year, but at least the wife (job/amenities) and kid (school) are provided for in desirable and populated Florida. But, gone all year AND the family has to do without happiness or prosperity in Clovis,NM? Fat chance, Bonus Bob. The AF really fucked AFSOC mission readiness with the Cannon quagmire...
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Maybe the dude that wants to switch airframe in the future might have his chance. Better yet axe the Bone and crossflow all those dudes.
No love for the BUFF playa'? They got just as many rejects er aspiring fighter pilots. :D
Academy informant program
in General Discussion
Posted
FWIW not every ROTC kid is on a scholarship.