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Guest ColMustard

General waiver information

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Guest hokie00

How does waivers work? Does it get submitted along with the completed physical, or does it have to wait until the SG approves the physical?

Or do waivers get submitted before the physical goes to the surgeon general, and after the waiver comes back positive, THEN the whole thing goes to the SG's office ? How does this work?

For my case, I need an Excessive Refraction waiver and I was wondering how the whole process works..

I just got a job as a software engineer that pays about $60k, and that makes the wait a little more bearable..

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Guest F16PilotMD

There is not one way to do it (sts). A waiver is a request to ignore a disqualifying condition. First, therefore, you must be found DQ. Then you ask for waiver.

Initial flying physicals are a little tricky because you have no status right now to 'waive'. The best bet is for the unit submitting your physical to discuss it with AETC/SG. That's what I would do. If you find someone who has been down this road a bunch, they may have a standard way to do it. In the end it doesn't matter. Your physical will get DQ'd. Your waiver will then come after that...either approved or disapproved.

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Guest chaw

My IFC1 was sent with some disqualifying conditions (20/30 near vision) and knee-to-butt greater than 27". A memo was sent back to the clinic with the specifics of outstanding conditions and remedies for them. I was remeasured (correctly this time) for knee-to-butt at 25" and a waiver request was written up for the near vision. The Sgt. at the clinic said it is an electronic process from that point. The waiver request is submitted to AIMWTS and from there I don't know what happens. I'm 99% sure that the waiver request was put in AIMWTS by now, so I just wait for word to come down, I guess.

F16PilotMD, do you have any insight to how long the waiver process takes?

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Guest F16PilotMD

Waivers will usually be answered in 2-3 weeks IF IF IF they are done properly by the hospital.

AIMWTS is just a computer program. It is a vehicle to enter data and write the aeromedical summary. It also serves as a database for all waivers.

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Guest Slye

Chaw mentioned a butt to knee measurement was taken for him during the IFC1. I don't remember getting this done for my IFC1, although it was about a year ago. In addition, I thought this particular measurement was done only at MFS but I've also heard they only do standing and sitting height initially and if you pass those two then you're good to go. Has something changed or is it a requirement that they do the butt to knee measurement for everyone at some point?

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Guest F16PilotMD

It has always been there as far as I know. Don't sweat it.

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Guest stu

I did my IFC1 in March04 and IIRC they did three seated measurements:

- knee to butt

- knee to floor

- head to butt

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Guest ColMustard

"I've heard about them"..."not sure if they exist"..."I've heard a rumor"..."only if you were born on a Thursday, then you can get one".

:confused:

I have come back to these comments time and time again when thinking about this subject. As a highly determined applicant, the word "waiver" was music to my ears (course all of these questions popped into my head at the same time). Anyone else in the same boat as me? I appreciate any replys:

How hard is it to obtain a moral waiver? waivers in general?

Can you personally participate in the efforts to obtain a waiver, or are you completely out of the loop?

Any sources out there that might explain the waiver process with a little more depth?

When they say a waiver would not work, does that mean they know the waiver would not be approved, or not worth their time?

Are there limits to how many times you can attempt to put a waiver through?

I figured in my situation (AFROTC disenrollment) I would have to get a waiver to get in, but I wasn't sure how much of a nuisance waivers were for units. I know they don't have to try to get a waiver for you, so I'm curious what may change there thinking to convince them that it would be worth their while?

Appreciate any (and I do mean ANY) thoughts on this subject.

Thanks!

-ColM

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Your chances may also depend on what you were disenrolled for in ROTC and if that has been addressed.

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Guest Retired AF

Once again, pay particular attention to the last sentence. I highly recommend that you get a copy of AFI 36-2005 if you are serious about trying to obtain a waiver. The process must be started by a unit (AFRES or ANG) and followed up their chain by them. Your job is to convince a unit that YOU are their best candidate, and worth the additional work of obtaining a waiver. Can you really maintain that you (with all your baggage)are a better candidate than all their other applicants? If you can't, then you are wasting your time and theirs. I'm sorry that this is not what you wanted to hear, but it is truthful.

AFI 36-2005

2.2. Ineligibility Factors. Table 2.2. lists conditions that make persons ineligible for appointment.

Table 2.2, Item 9 Disenrolled from an officer training program as defined in AFI 36-2012.

2.3. Waivers.

2.3.1. General Information. Forward waiver requests of eligibility or ineligibility criteria through appropriate command channels only if recommending approval. The overriding consideration is the best interest of the Air Force."

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Guest copenhagen

I believe my waiver made it to the Pentagon on the 19th of May... How quick are they turning them these days? :D

How would you know if you got shot down on the waiver?

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Guest AirGuardian

For the Reserve Component(includes ANG when I say component),

Unsure about active duty waivers since my first one was from the AF Staff(One shot deal to meet a flying board) and not the CSAF for the Guard when it was finally approved on the second attempt!. All depends on when the CSAF is available to sign the waiver itself - If he's not carrying on somewhere in the U.S. about how great the F/A/B/C/D/E/J/M-22 Raptor Magic Special Edition is, than it could turn around in a week or so, depending on their mail(Holy Joe) distribution system... Otherwise be prepared for a longer wait - his schedule is pretty jam packed, being the lead guy and all! It varies significantly!

Getting the kill call on your waiver would be in the same timeframe above. Bad news tends to travel faster than good news, so no news is good news for the most part - You could have your unit check with the Guard Bureau/Reserve HQ's every other week or so, but normally age waivers are sent back at a decent pace since they want the unit's to input their age critical candidates faster into UPT slots on a normal basis... Pretty vague I know, but then everything that goes on up at the "Puzzle Palace" is vague... Good luck!

[ 09. July 2004, 16:09: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

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Guest copenhagen

I've been told that if the waiver makes it to the Pentagon - that it is very likely that it will be approved... I would be curious to know what percentages make it there and how many are killed up there. Sorry - just my being an enginerd - living and dying by the data.

Who is the CSAF for the Guard? Not being in the militry - I'm in overload mode with all the acronyms.

Thanks for the reply!

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The CSAF is the same for Active Duty, ANG, and AFRES as they are all part of the 'Total Force'. Gen John Jumper.

As to how long it will take to process a waiver, "it depends" is accurate. As AirGuardian mentioned, whether the Generals are in the office has a lot to do with the timeline. Also, these things are staffed by Maj/LT Col types (who are most likely the ones that actually make the decisions) so their whereabouts might come in to play.

Anyway, without getting too far into the weeds on the workings of how they are processed...mine took 128 days. Seems that 3-4 months is fairly typical (based on conversations with other ANG folks and with the flying training guys at NGB). One guy in my unit took over 15 months to get his...they lost it twice! Once they had approved his medical waiver, he needed an age waiver! DoH! Having said all that..."it depends". Perhaps you will get lucky and it'll only take a few weeks. "Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what you get" - Bergman.

Good luck! Pray for the pentagon distro system to work smoothly.

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Guest Wxpunk

Okay, I need some stuff cleared up here...

From what I understand, the only way to get an age waiver is to be a rated officer, who gets one shot at the UPT board, or over the age limit but with a medical, informational goof, or other special case that caused it.

Are there other ways?

Also, I wonder if my situation might have a shot at getting a waiver approved...

In December of 2001, I was deployed for 11 months. This was not voluntary due to it being my final year of college. {SIDE NOTE: I had already expressed my intentions to seek a UPT slot to my commander and the flying squadron commander well prior to this ordeal. In fact, I changed my major from Mechanical Engineering to Physics specifically to beat the age limit of 30.} So, by being deployed, I was pushed over the age limit for UPT FY05 by seven months.

I submitted my package in June of '03 and was called by the STAN/EVAL commander. He told me my age had disqualified me and urged me to take a shot at UNT. I met with the UPT board for UNT selection. At its conclusion, I was told I would have won a UPT slot had it not been for my age.

I've since then graduated and I'm waiting to leave for AMS/UNT. Is there anything that can be done at this point? Does this seem possible for an age waiver?

-------------

Wxpunk

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Guest beylund

I would think they could do a waiver for something like that, the issue is time. By this I mean the amount of time it will take for the stars to find it on their desk and sign it honestly could take a year or more (I've seen it). Which sounds like it will bust your commissioning date. I know a guy that got his waiver approved ONE WEEK before commissioning, by Gen. Jumper himself, then had to re-plan for everything and take off within a week of his commissioning. But he was the happiest guy in 3 states. Best of luck, talk to every NCO you can, they are your best chance for help from what I've seen.

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Guest AirGuardian

In reply to the CSAF bit,

Bergman has slam dunked the CSAF title of course, as for the ANG - we have what it called "The Director of the Air National Guard" and the Army National Guard has the same title. Both are 3-Stars, the ANG Director is Lt Gen Daniel James III who was appointed from his last state of duty - the great state of Texas! There is one top Guard guy heading up the Air and Army National Guard and falls under the title of "Director of the National Guard."

WxPunk, If your endeavors fall short of gaining an age waiver soon, then get that UNT done and re-apply for an age waiver after you have proven yourself in the weapon system, it's possible so it ain't totally over bud! Keep at it and it's worth every effort to attain the front seat! Godspeed and thanks for any weather stuff you may have done for our guys from Jackson, MS! Assuming you are in the business of the weather shop of course!

[ 12. July 2004, 11:45: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

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Guest Wxpunk

Thanks for the encouragement. I fully intend to kick butt at AMS, UNT and back here at the unit. I will apply at least one more time hoping for a waiver. I'm 30 now, so I think I have five years to prove myself worthy of a waiver. Even if I don't get UPT, I will still strive to be the best damn Nav the KYANG has ever seen!

<<<<EDIT>>>>

Oh yeah, I'm sure I've briefed your boys at one time or another. I was AD at Pope AFB '92-'95 and deployed to Ft. Benning all of '02. As you know, those two places see allot of AF pilots...especially Pope.

----------------

Wxpunk

[ 12. July 2004, 20:30: Message edited by: Wxpunk ]

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Guest herkeng

I have a question for the guys that have put in age waivers (AD), the guys up at MPF told me they are not excepting them at this time. Is this a bunch of MPF BS or is there a way of getting it done. If there is anyone who can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

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Herkeng -> Sounds like the MPF guys are feeding you some B.S. IIRC, the NAF CC is the first person in the chain of command with disapproval authority for any waivers. Certainly it is NOT the E-5 at your local MPF!

Now, they may have meant that the waivers aren't being approved, in which case I would say "OK...I want to submit mine anyway and see what happens." If you want to pursue a waiver, they MUST submit it for you.

Has anyone heard something different?

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I have had three depth perception tests, all resulting in the conclusion that my depth perception is around 100 aps. I was reading the DoDMERB website but I couldn't find who I should send a waiver request to. I am currently an FTP cadet and I need to get PPQ PDQ. Also, I have heard that there are several tests other than the circles out there for DP. Does anyone know where a civilian could get these other tests? Any help is appreciated.

[ 20. August 2004, 10:49: Message edited by: c17wannabe ]

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Guest F16PilotMD

I don't deal with ROTC or OTS applicants at all but I can tell you what the waiver guide says:

"It is presumed that a subset of mildly defective microtopes may perform adequately in the cockpit. Therefore, a subset of initial applicants who have subtle defects in stereopsis due to microtropia or monofixation syndrome have been issued waivers as part of a prospective EFS-M research protocol. Prerequisites for inclusion in these studies have been outlined elsewhere, and requests must be coordinated through the appropriate MAJCOM."

The key is WHY you have depth perception problems. Most are due to a refractive error (i.e.: you need glasses) or an alignment error (i.e.: "lazy eye"). Once you know the WHY part, it will be possible to investigate your options. In any case, you would need an evaluation by Brooks for any waiver of this nature.

Start with a full eye exam and go from there. I would think your det should be able to coordinate this issue for you.

[ 20. August 2004, 13:15: Message edited by: F16PilotMD ]

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C17, I had a new development in my depth perception episode. Last week I went to Charleston Air Force base to re-take the circles test. As usual I failed it miserably and only got through line B like before. However, since I am a dependent they said I could get an appointment at optometry on base. The next day I went to optometry and had the full dp work up done. The doc threw every test he had at me (roughly 10 or so). At the end he said I had normal depth perception. I was relieved. Monday I will submit the paperwork to my det and go from there. I'll keep you posted. Thanks F16 for all your help. Keep pressing on C17 and see if you can beg someone to let you get an appt at optometry. They have all the tests and will give you the most thorough dp review. I struggled w/ the same thing and could not find civilians with all the tests. Good luck

Edited by Whitman

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Guest F16PilotMD

This can be tough. Even with a "normal" exam you have to be able to pass the circles test. That's the company line from the USAF. There really is no way you can have normal depth perception and not be able to pass the circles test. I would still press on with waiver requests...you never know. Good luck.

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Here's the question: if something is "unwaiverable," can AETC/SG grant a waiver?

Has that ever happened?

Is this something to try before submitting an ETP?

The reason I ask is because I learned that AETC/SG rubber-stamps the Brooks reports before they become final. That makes it sound like the Brooks report is technically just a recommendation (a recommendation from the highest court in the medical corps, but a recommendation nonetheless).

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