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Smokey

IFS and the right sight picture......

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Okay, I've answered many posts on this topic. Let there be no doubt that IFS is not a "given."

It really is not some "requirement" to get to the real game. It is a step in the process that is meant to eliminate those from the flow that don't have what it takes.

I don't care what your prior experience is, if you can't do it our way (which is meant to mirror the UFT environment) then it is the highway.

And, it is full throttle throughout the course of your specific syllabus.

It is screening in the context that the syllabus is very demanding. IP's provide the training in the time alloted. You have to use that in conjuction with your effort to attain the required proficiency. You get "X" amount of quarters to play the game. You either get it in that alloted time or are eliminated for the same reason since the beginning of the modern era of UFT....which began in the early 60's.

As a member of many FAC, TRB, CRP, boards (the acronyms changed, the process is the same) the final determination was, "the student failed to demonstrate the ability to progress within the constraints of the syllabus."

Come to IFS with your game face on and ready to apply yourself. You only get one chance.

Good luck to all, and if you are briefing a sortie with me, suffice it to say you are getting the instruction that will help you get through the next stage as well as IFS....because I won't let you through the gate without the confidence that you will become a pilot, CSO, or RPA. Nor will any other IP here. You are proving your ability to fill the AF's requirements while at IFS. It is far from a "given" (take note my folks with a civilian rating!).

Come in with focus and 100% determination. Weak general knowledge (GK) is a sign of laziness.......you don't want that as a problem.

Smokey

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I found that the hardest part of IFS was staying awake during academics. On another note, the DFAC makes a killer omelette in the morning.

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I found that the hardest part of IFS was staying awake during academics. On another note, the DFAC makes a killer omelette in the morning.

Must have prior time or be a "natural." Good for you. Let us know where you are at currently in the UFT syllabus. And, let us know where you are come assignment night.

Your post intimates a slacker IMO. But, glad you enjoyed your time with the DFAC. I'll let Steve know. Sadly, you missed some of the most important things IFS teaches.

Carry on. Tell us about your progress through the UFT process. What is your academic average. How are you doing relative to your peers. Are you a leader/mentorer or a GDI? If you are that good, are you sitting down with your classmates to help them chair fly or with GK?

Smokey

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I had a few hours in gliders coming in like most, and heeded the advice to purge any techniques that may have been developed along the way to make room for the USAF way of doing things. I enjoyed my time at IFS and the instruction I received (for the most part) was outstanding. I think I got the gist of IFS, the greatest lessons for me being coming together as a class to achieve what as an individual would be very difficult, not being afraid to lean on or pick up your buddies, RTFQs, the importance of a good debrief, learn from other's mistakes, get and stay fit, work hard/play hard...I'm probably missing some of the training objectives here but all in all, good experience. I'm in phase one right now, near 100% academic avg, and just getting back from a group study session on systems. Things seems to be going quite well and I'm eager to get in the "jet". I'll be around here with updates as I progress and will let everyone know where I'm at. And I wouldn't say I have the mindset of a slacker, it's more of disease I've been struggling with whose only cure is the right amount of coal-black coffee.

Edited by Dukeorions

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I had a great time at IFS. The most trouble I had was figuring out the ideal way to layer the toppings for my Ice cream. Heath-snickers-MM-butterfinger FTW!!

Sound advice above though. Know your boldface before you get there. Don't suck.

Edited by dontshavemyhead

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Must have prior time or be a "natural."

Smokey

Best investment I made was about 15 hours in a DA-20 prior to getting there learning the sight picture for landing, level flight, and steep turns. Just enough to learn the plane and still be moldable to the "new" way of doing things. Also, doing a bit of studying on general PPL type studying allows you to understand the classes (a lot) better than going in there cold.

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Is it not true there are civilian IP/CFI instructors at IFS? Are there any instructors who have never attended UPT?

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Is it not true there are civilian IP/CFI instructors at IFS? Are there any instructors who have never attended UPT?

Doss Aviation IFS is an FAA flight school, not a military unit, and is manned with civilian flight instructors. I think most have prior military experience from the AF or Navy, but maybe not all. Co-located is a small AF training squadron (1st Flying Training Sqdn, I believe) with a few military IPs who monitor the training, provide contract oversight, and fly a little to provide quality control, fly elimination checks, etc. However, the syllabus is constructed to mirror the UPT training process and is run that way by all the IPs.

You can read about it at www.dossifs.com

Edited by HiFlyer

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Is it not true there are civilian IP/CFI instructors at IFS? Are there any instructors who have never attended UPT?

Yes, there are non-AF experience IPs. Some are civilian, some are Navy/Marine, some are Army. They go through a "blueing" process to adapt their experience to meet the needs of being an IFS IP. Including a visit to a UPT base for FAM flight and observation of the UPT environment. And, if you're curious, we have candidates that don't make it through the qualification program. They are experienced pilots and instructors, just not meant for this environment.

There are enough of us "gray beard" types that have enough "white jet" time to get them up to speed. Our "PIT" is run by former PIT IPs as well.

Regardless of their background, they are well versed in what the program is intended to do and how to instruct to that purpose.

Our IP cadre, regardless of their background, is the most experienced in the history of aviation IMO. You won't find the same depth/breadth at any UPT wing.

FWIW,

Smokey

Doss Aviation IFS is an FAA flight school, not a military unit, and is manned with civilian flight instructors. I think most have prior military experience from the AF or Navy, but maybe not all. Co-located is a small AF training squadron (1st Flying Training Sqdn, I believe) with a few military IPs who monitor the training, provide contract oversight, and fly a little to provide quality control, fly elimination checks, etc. However, the syllabus is constructed to mirror the UPT training process and is run that way by all the IPs.

You can read about it at www.dossifs.com

We operate under the guidance and restrictions of the FARs. Let there be no doubt that we do not conduct training in the FAA 141 or FBO type of operation. We meet the FARs to let you solo, but you are trained to an AF standard.

Smokey

Best investment I made was about 15 hours in a DA-20 prior to getting there learning the sight picture for landing, level flight, and steep turns. Just enough to learn the plane and still be moldable to the "new" way of doing things. Also, doing a bit of studying on general PPL type studying allows you to understand the classes (a lot) better than going in there cold.

A little bit of experience is good. I made a briefing which will go out to all sources (AFA, ROTC, OTS, etc.) soon. It basically tells you that a PPL rating isn't required. It does tell you exactly what you said. Getting a basic understanding of pitch, power, and trim along with the "landing sight picture" will help you. Everything else is really a bit different. Our training has a method to the madness, so to speak. It prepares you not to be a FAA qualified pilot but rather a student that is ready to go onto the next step with the basics of USAF flying.

The only true parallel between USAF and FAA flying is instrument. Those procedures are really not much different. The FAA doesn't really qualify you as a 4 ship flight lead to drop bombs on a target in some other country.

Smokey

I had a few hours in gliders coming in like most, and heeded the advice to purge any techniques that may have been developed along the way to make room for the USAF way of doing things. I enjoyed my time at IFS and the instruction I received (for the most part) was outstanding. I think I got the gist of IFS, the greatest lessons for me being coming together as a class to achieve what as an individual would be very difficult, not being afraid to lean on or pick up your buddies, RTFQs, the importance of a good debrief, learn from other's mistakes, get and stay fit, work hard/play hard...I'm probably missing some of the training objectives here but all in all, good experience. I'm in phase one right now, 100% academic avg, and just getting back from a group study session on systems. Things seems to be going quite well and I'm eager to get in the "jet". I'll be around here with updates as I progress and will let everyone know where I'm at. And I wouldn't say I have the mindset of a slacker, it's more of disease I've been struggling with whose only cure is the right amount of coal-black coffee.

Good on 'ya. Your initial post may have been a little TIC which is always hard to tell in the internet vacuum.

My apology.

Don't be a GDI. You post some excellent advice.

Smokey

To anyone that cares,

The "gouge" posted on baseops flight training board is already out of date and will be SERIOUSLY out of date come the new year. Sure, boldface and ops limits are up to speed, but the local procedures are being significantly changed to accomodate the operation that grew to 3 syllabi and were modified only to the extent necessary to fit the square peg in the round hole.

Now, it is all redesigned.

Beware of Primacy. Don't learn the wrong information only to have to re-learn it.

Smokey

Edited by Smokey

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Smokey - any chance you want to contribute corrected / more accurate gouge to the website so that I can replace the out-of-date information?

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Smokey - any chance you want to contribute corrected / more accurate gouge to the website so that I can replace the out-of-date information?

As someone heading to IFS next summer, I second that request.

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FWIW you live and die by the gouge. I glanced through the stuff that was on baseops but mainly studied the real deal at IFS. Sure it's great to have but like previously posted it's probably going to be old. Best advice IMO after you get done with the academic classes (mine ended on the Friday after I got there), read it all over that first weekend. Yeah it sucks to waste a weekend to read it, but it is one out of many and your focus should be to get through the program not to go skiing etc (not saying that you shouldn't have fun, but study first). Know the bold face and ops limit cold. If you are able to get some time in before going to IFS do it, but don't worry if you can't. This program is designed for people with no time and you will be fine. Lastly, help out your flight mates when they need help and don't be afraid to ask for help either.

I just finished up here, and it is a well designed program. If you have any questions PM me and I will answer your questions to the best of my ability. Remember though that this program also shows you your own learning habits and what not, so whatever worked for me might not work for you.

PS - Go to the tower and give the controllers a class/flight patch. They listen to you screw up comm all day ever day, and they will appreciate it. Apparently I was the first one to give them one.

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It was mentioned earlier about getting a few hours in a DA-20 before arriving at IFS, I believe all civilian DA-20's have the instruments in front of the left seat whereas, if I'm not mistaken, IFS has us sit in the right seat as the instruments are on the right side for Doss' aircraft. Would you recommend sitting in the right seat while picking up a few hours prior to get used to the sight picture and just not have the instruments in front of you? Or just sit in the left seat?

The company I'm going to be flying with offered either seat for me so I'm just wondering what would be better.

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I did mine in the right seat...was a bit weird looking over at airspeed and heading, but you learn to trim, control and move the throttle with the "correct" hands. Technique only

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the DOSS aircraft have the panels swapped, you'll sit on the right, with the instruments in front of you

I had 85 hours in the left seat of a DA-20 before i attended IFS...it took about 10 minutes to get used to flying from the other side. Flying the DA20 would be pretty helpful, IMO seat doesn't matter

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Smokey - any chance you want to contribute corrected / more accurate gouge to the website so that I can replace the out-of-date information?

Personally, I would love to. Having said that, it isn't a necessity and the documents are Doss proprietary information that changes. I cannot provide such information without taking on the liability of ensuring the information is up to date. And, I'm not authorized to do so.

The official information for incoming stud's comes from the 1st FTS regarding what is provided to new students. That being basically the BF and Ops Limits. I have never seen a class come in where everyone knew that information and passed the test......so, posting the other information is really a moot point.

Regardless of prior experience, the training "playing field" is balanced for all students. A guy or gal with prior flight time might make much more from the information tham zero time students. Unfair advantage in some folk's minds.

Come 1 Jan, a whole new Local Flying Procedures will be published. The checklist is going through minor changes as well. The departure and arrival procedures are all changing too.

I'd keep your boldface and ops limits, the academic info (although minor revisions are made as well) but ditch the rest of the stuff.

The CSO program is under another review for tweeking. But, chapter 6 of the LFP you have is WAY out of date.

Your RPA stuff is one revision behind as well.

Sorry I can't help on this matter. I try to keep my posts broad and help those coming to IFS with "pearls of wisdom." I am not permitted to do more than that.

19th AF likes me on here though...

Smokey

Edited by Smokey

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FWIW you live and die by the gouge. I glanced through the stuff that was on baseops but mainly studied the real deal at IFS. Sure it's great to have but like previously posted it's probably going to be old. Best advice IMO after you get done with the academic classes (mine ended on the Friday after I got there), read it all over that first weekend. Yeah it sucks to waste a weekend to read it, but it is one out of many and your focus should be to get through the program not to go skiing etc (not saying that you shouldn't have fun, but study first). Know the bold face and ops limit cold. If you are able to get some time in before going to IFS do it, but don't worry if you can't. This program is designed for people with no time and you will be fine. Lastly, help out your flight mates when they need help and don't be afraid to ask for help either.

I just finished up here, and it is a well designed program. If you have any questions PM me and I will answer your questions to the best of my ability. Remember though that this program also shows you your own learning habits and what not, so whatever worked for me might not work for you.

PS - Go to the tower and give the controllers a class/flight patch. They listen to you screw up comm all day ever day, and they will appreciate it. Apparently I was the first one to give them one.

Good on ya for going to the tower and giving them a patch!

You speak some good advice on many things. Learning "how to learn" being one of the more important ones.

And, the point you made about being a member of your flight, helping others, is also part of the key to what you are learning here. We don't rank the class as in UPT, but you need to know that 20% of your "score" from phase 2 and 3 comes from the Flight Commander in UPT. Things like military bearing, leadership, team building, etc., can play a very large role in your final class ranking come track select and final assignment night.

Coming in with some time can help you. Stick to the basics! For those with their PPL, some time flying with a stick (and in your right hand) can help you as well.

Smokey

As someone heading to IFS next summer, I second that request.

Sorry, I can't. Know the Boldface and Ops Limits COLD! The academic material is also a good enough head start.

Otherwise, come in with an open mind and focus.

Smokey

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And, the point you made about being a member of your flight, helping others, is also part of the key to what you are learning here. We don't rank the class as in UPT, but you need to know that 20% of your "score" from phase 2 and 3 comes from the Flight Commander in UPT. Things like military bearing, leadership, team building, etc., can play a very large role in your final class ranking come track select and final assignment night.

Smokey

When you get right down to it, the Cmdr's ranking is virtually 100% of your score. Why? Because history says that over the course of training, most stuff averages out except for one or two people at the very top and very bottom. Average check scores over the phase are pretty close, average academics scores are pretty close, "officership" is pretty close, and when lumped together, they tend to cancel each other out. So, the Flight Commander's rating becomes the real discriminator. You pretty much get what the IPs and Flight Commander want to give you based on their opinions! Bottom line: attitude is everything...don't piss off the boss!!!!

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When you get right down to it, the Cmdr's ranking is virtually 100% of your score. Why? Because history says that over the course of training, most stuff averages out except for one or two people at the very top and very bottom. Average check scores over the phase are pretty close, average academics scores are pretty close, "officership" is pretty close, and when lumped together, they tend to cancel each other out. So, the Flight Commander's rating becomes the real discriminator. You pretty much get what the IPs and Flight Commander want to give you based on their opinions! Bottom line: attitude is everything...don't piss off the boss!!!!

Shack!!!!

Be a team player and not a whiner! Getting your wings is a tough road to travel. It all begins with basic traffic patterns, stalls, etc. It ends with eventually being mission qualified to employ your aircraft to achieve the mission objectives.

We do it a certain way at step one of the process, and in the following steps, to produce a pilot or CSO that can achieve that. What some don't understand, especially those with significant prior experience, is that there is a "method to the madness" that goes beyond the horizon they see. All who achieve the goal will then understand the "why we do it that way." Those that don't, won't.

On the side....would this be Huggy? Going to Egg's retirement?

Smokey

Edited by Smokey

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19th AF likes me on here though...

Smokey

Wait....what? You told mother blue about this website? Some generals are in for a bit of a surprise!!

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The official information for incoming stud's comes from the 1st FTS regarding what is provided to new students. That being basically the BF and Ops Limits. I have never seen a class come in where everyone knew that information and passed the test......so, posting the other information is really a moot point.

Sorry, I can't. Know the Boldface and Ops Limits COLD! The academic material is also a good enough head start.

This is the singe piece of advice I've heard repeated ad nauseam for the past 6 months, and I'll probably hear it even more for the next 6. I imagine most other incoming studs are the same. So why on earth can't people pass the test on it? I'm guessing it's the easiest test you'll have for the next ~1.5 years (IFS + UPT)...if you can't pass that one.... *facepalm*

Thanks for all the advice though, Smokey. It's great to know at least one Doss instructor is on here. Can't wait to get there in July!

Also, just out of curiosity, when do we get (officially) sent info like the BF and Ops Limits? Does it come with our UPT orders? IFS TDY orders? Or when we arrive in Pueblo?

Edited by LoneWolf121188

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On the side....would this be Huggy? Going to Egg's retirement?

Smokey

HiFlyer not = Huggy...

This is the singe piece of advice I've heard repeated ad nauseam for the past 6 months, and I'll probably hear it even more for the next 6. I imagine most other incoming studs are the same. So why on earth can't people pass the test on it?

Also, just out of curiosity, when do we get (officially) sent info like the BF and Ops Limits? Does it come with our UPT orders? IFS TDY orders? Or when we arrive in Pueblo?

They bust it because either they didn't read the pre-arrival letter in the DOSSIFS web site ( www.dossifs.com) which tells them what they need to do, or they didn't put the time in to actually learn them. Also, if you had read the info on the web site, you wouldn't have to ask where the BF and Ops limits are.

Edited by HiFlyer

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