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osulax05

So there I was...

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Guest Fogo

All good thoughts... and I have to agree with those mentioning customs and courtesies. Salute the higher rank, "thats" the tradition.

The only problem I have is when a 1LT misses a salute from a 2LT and acts as if you just forgot to salute the General.

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Guest Pike

I'm down with all the military traditions (proudly) and customs and courtesies...but I'm not about to get all butt hurt because Lt joe blow or even if Airman snuffy forgot to render me a salute (and I'm a Capt). But, I'm a pretty laid back guy....I don’t even care for when people call me Sir, especially when a guy that's a CMSgt calls me "Sir". I always call them Sir, because they are my senior, regardless of the tradition.. I just never understood why people get all worked up over it...yes, you should render the proper salute when it's appropriate, but if they don't see you or what have you, I don't see the sense in lighting some one up and letting your blood boil...life is too short and there are plenty of more important things in life to stress about. And I'm sorry, but if you are a 1Lt and you get all upset that a 2Lt doesn't salute you, then yes, congrats, you are a TOOL! Fine if he does, then salute him back but don't be upset if he doesn't...puhleeze.

Reminds me of my days back at LA AFB...one time, when I was a 1LT, I was walking to the gym bag in one arm and a big water bottle in the other and this Capt is walking past me with this perturbed look on his face because I had too much junk in my arms to render him a salute. I still gave him the verbal greeting and tacked on a "Sir," but he was still pissy. He even saluted me and to that I had to be a smart ass so I told him, "thanks". What, did he expect me to drop or juggle all my stuff just to salute him?!?

On another note, I remember when I was smoking/joking with one of my buddies outside another time when I was still a 1Lt and this butter-bar OTS robot (I could tell by the brief case and the high & tight) literally cuts in between us (I had my back to him), interrupts our conversation, snaps to attention, salutes and says, "good afternoon Sirs"...LOL...I hate when people say, "sirs" instead of "gentlemen"...anyway, I wanted to screw with him so bad, but I just told him that goldbars don't need to salute 1Lt's and don't interrupt someone's conversation like that (didn't raise my voice at all, but I was a little annoyed that I was interrupted). He stayed at attention the whole time I was talking and to that he said, "I stand corrected, thank you Sir. May I be dismissed?" I should've told him something else like that he had to salute civilians on base too. Poor bastard must have gotten quite a few beatings at OTS...but it sure was funny.

Edited by Pike

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I think Brabus is at UPT right now...that would probably explain that comment he made. 1Lt + wings = FAIP

Exactly

wouldn't a SNAP be the guy that demands the 2Lt to salut.gif him because he's a 1Lt? Isn't that being a little "sensative"?

Techsan is a genius! I am not against customs and courtesies at all, but the only SNAP is the d-bag 1Lt who thinks he so fvcking deserving of a salute from a 2Lt. I don't even feel deserving of a salute from NCOs, but I understand the reasoning behind it all. I'm not against the whole thing at all, but it's just common practice for Lts not to salute other Lts, that's how I learned it and that's how I practice it...minus the FAIP thing, but that's just another one of those "only at UPT" things.

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I'm down with all the military traditions (proudly) and customs and courtesies...but I'm not about to get all butt hurt because Lt joe blow or even if Airman snuffy forgot to render me a salute (and I'm a Capt). But, I'm a pretty laid back guy....I don’t even care for when people call me Sir, especially when a guy that's a CMSgt calls me "Sir". I always call them Sir, because they are my senior, regardless of the tradition.. I just never understood why people get all worked up over it...yes, you should render the proper salute when it's appropriate, but if they don't see you or what have you, I don't see the sense in lighting some one up.

Those are two different scenarios. I agree that there's no point in lighting someone up who legitmately didn't see you. On the other hand, it's bad form to allow an on-purpose missed salute go unchecked, especially if younger airmen are present. Pilot or not, you're an officer and young E's look up to you and follow your example.

By the same reasoning, I would never call a chief "sir".

HD

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Those are two different scenarios. I agree that there's no point in lighting someone up who legitmately didn't see you. On the other hand, it's bad form to allow an on-purpose missed salute go unchecked, especially if younger airmen are present. Pilot or not, you're an officer and young E's look up to you and follow your example.

Yup.

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Guest Pike
Those are two different scenarios. I agree that there's no point in lighting someone up who legitmately didn't see you. On the other hand, it's bad form to allow an on-purpose missed salute go unchecked, especially if younger airmen are present. Pilot or not, you're an officer and young E's look up to you and follow your example.

By the same reasoning, I would never call a chief "sir".

HD

I don't believe if I do/do not correct some one up that's really going to affect if some one follows my example or not....probably could go either way depending on the person....I also think it's a better example to stay calm, cool and collected...and don't sweat the small stuff. Additionally, If those other e's are worth anything, they would get on that person for their "poor form." I've also haven't seen too many "on-purpose missed salutes" to be honest... I know I gave different scenarios...but I've seen quite a few people get lit up because they didn't see a senior ranking individual or for other dumb reasons (such as my armfuls of krap example).

I don't think calling a chief "Sir" is that big of a deal either...I just personally have a great deal of respect for my SNCO's because of their depth of experience and age. I was raised that anyone who's significantly older than me, I was to address them as "sir"...that's probably why I'm like that.

Just my opinion....guess that's why I'm in the Guard.

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Lt. Protection Association, from what I understand its just all the LT's in a squadron banding together to not get screwed over (to much at least) someone once used an analogy on this board that likened it to joining a gang once your in prison so you don't become someones girlfriend. Someone that knows more will likely chime in.

We had the JOPA, the "junior officer protection association". Except that on a Navy base, junior officer includes O-3.

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Guest Boom
I don't believe if I do/do not correct some one up that's really going to affect if some one follows my example or not....probably could go either way depending on the person....I also think it's a better example to stay calm, cool and collected...and don't sweat the small stuff. Additionally, If those other e's are worth anything, they would get on that person for their "poor form." I've also haven't seen too many "on-purpose missed salutes" to be honest... I know I gave different scenarios...but I've seen quite a few people get lit up because they didn't see a senior ranking individual or for other dumb reasons (such as my armfuls of krap example).

I don't think calling a chief "Sir" is that big of a deal either...I just personally have a great deal of respect for my SNCO's because of their depth of experience and age. I was raised that anyone who's significantly older than me, I was to address them as "sir"...that's probably why I'm like that.

Just my opinion....guess that's why I'm in the Guard.

Don't ever call a Chief "Sir." It's Chief.

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I haven't had a computer for a few days and thought I'd check back on this mind numbing thread. I read Stifler's last post and was motivated to scroll right to the "Fast Reply" button.

Stifler, stop chatting up dudes in the locker room.

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Stifler, stop chatting up dudes in the locker room.

Haha after I wrote that I caught it. Nice catch...I guess I have a thing for old nam vets.

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Just my opinion....guess that's why I'm in the Guard.

That explains it.

HD

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So this is not really a no salute story, but I was geting my shots done at the clinic on base and this TSgt ask me if I was a cadet attending field training and had to get my immunizations. Did she even notice the gold bars I was wearing? I kindly replied to her "No, actually I am an officer in the Air Force?" Are people this dumb/rude to brand new lieutenants? I find it hard to mess up 2nd Lt ranks with cadet ranks. :banghead:

WeatherMan :beer:

Edited by WeatherManUPT

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The AF has a very different culture among officers/enlisted and how young officers are looked at/treated compared to other services (this comes from my buddy who's a Marine 1Lt). He's noticed that a lot of people, including enlisted, shit on LTs for being those idiots that just graduated college. I'm not complaining; in fact it seems warranted much of the time. His viewpoint is that in the Marines when you're an officer, even as a 2LT, you're held to the same regard/treated as such as say a Capt in the AF. There's just that difference b/w how the other services view rank, and the AF's majority viewpoint is that while a LT is an officer, they still don't know shit and thus are treated accordingly...not saying that's wrong, but that's just one Marine's view. In my opinion, it's usually not too bad, but there are some NCOs out there that feel it's their job to shit on the new LTs as much as possible...be respectful, but don't just let them walk all over you...you are an officer, act like it.

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Guest Boom
So this is not really a no salute story, but I was geting my shots done at the clinic on base and this TSgt ask me if I was a cadet attending field training and had to get my immunizations. Did she even notice the gold bars I was wearing? I kindly replied to her "No, actually I am an officer in the Air Force?" Are people this dumb/rude to brand new lieutenants? I find it hard to mess up 2nd Lt ranks with cadet ranks. :banghead:

WeatherMan :beer:

I'm sure your smart ass reply didn't help either. People make mistakes. I don't think I need to jump all over a new non-rated Officer with the "I work for a living" speech every time because they accidentally salute me cause I'm in a flight suit.

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Guest Xtndr50boom

Man, talk about a stimulating discussion. Lieutenants saluting each other? Chatting it up with the gents at the YMCA gym? I wonder when someone will ask whether time in the bunk counts as "secondary" or "other" time.

220px-Curtis_LeMay_(USAF).jpg

He would be proud!

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Guest Fogo
Man, talk about a stimulating discussion. Lieutenants saluting each other? Chatting it up with the gents at the YMCA gym? I wonder when someone will ask whether time in the bunk counts as "secondary" or "other" time.

220px-Curtis_LeMay_(USAF).jpg

He would be proud!

Its like when your dad gave you that stern look of disapointment look rather than yelling at you... it made you feel worse.

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I'm sure your smart ass reply didn't help either. People make mistakes. I don't think I need to jump all over a new non-rated Officer with the "I work for a living" speech every time because they accidentally salute me cause I'm in a flight suit.

"No, actually I'm an officer in the Air Force" is smart ass?

Is there a term for SNAP enlisted aircrew?

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Don't ever call a Chief "Sir." It's Chief.

You call him sir, it's like a demotion.

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I'm sure your smart ass reply didn't help either. People make mistakes. I don't think I need to jump all over a new non-rated Officer with the "I work for a living" speech every time because they accidentally salute me cause I'm in a flight suit.

I was simply correcting her, it was no way meant to be a smart ass comment. I would think that an E-6 would know the officer rank structure.

WxMan :beer:

Edited by WeatherManUPT

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Guest Boom
"No, actually I'm an officer in the Air Force" is smart ass? Is there a term for SNAP enlisted aircrew?
The faggotry you displayed in that last post will make you a perfect fit for the Bone.*pun included*
I was simply correcting her, it was no way meant to be a smart ass comment. I would think that an E-6 would know the officer rank structure.WxMan :beer:
Yeah you would think, however I know Captains in my squadron who can't figure out how many stripes a MSgt has. Shit happens and the fact you're a new 2Lt no one really gives a shit either.

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The faggotry you displayed in that last post will make you a perfect fit for the Bone.

*pun included*

There it is again...the sensitive, new-age stuff.

So tell me, had you been a 2Lt and had a TSgt ask if you were a cadet, what phrasing would you have used?

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Guest Boom
There it is again...the sensitive, new-age stuff.

So tell me, had you been a 2Lt and had a TSgt ask if you were a cadet, what phrasing would you have used?

Sensitive, new-age stuff? You're the one getting all huffy puffy over something stupid.

"Are you a cadet?"

"No."

/end of discussion

Edited by Boom

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Guest Xtndr50boom
Its like when your dad gave you that stern look of disapointment look rather than yelling at you... it made you feel worse.

Yeah, like when I got married.

After reading this thread and others like it, I've came to one conclusion: SNAP-ness is systemic in the AF. And as much as people here claim to hate it, it's alive and well with the fliers, since they started it. Everyone else followed their example. It's not like the shoeclerks just foisted it on everyone against their will

EDITED: To better reflect what I was trying to say

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And as much as people here claim to hate it, it's alive and well with the fliers too. It's not like the shoeclerks just foisted it on everyone against their will

You can't be a SNAP if you aren't a flier. Sensitive New Aged PILOT. For the ground pounders, it's just standard shoeclerkness.

HD

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