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Guest elcidwill

UPT Package- Bind or Not?

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Guest elcidwill

Long time lurker here.

Ok, after 4 years of working in a shoe AFSC, I left AD and am now a reservist applying for a Guard pilot position. This question may seem pretty retarded, but I ask because I am pretty obsessive about this and want to make sure I get it right the first time.

I have assembled everything for the package itself, but wanted to know what folks would recommend as far as binding, etc.

1) Should I get this thing professionally bound?

2) If so, how should the OPRs be included? Split up so front and back are facing up?

3) Should each page be laminated?

4) Should each page be removable?

5) Photo: official head shot, or something casual like skiing, etc?

6) Flying Class 1A....The copy I have is not stamped, does this matter?

7) Awards and Dec's...should I mention anything?

I would appreciate any help I can get with this. I am age critical, have been through hell and back, and want this pretty damn bad.

Thanks!

- Will

Edited by elcidwill

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Guest kmgraham79

All depends. Ask the person collecting the UPT package. Some prefer that you don't bind the packages so that they don't have to pull them apart and put them back together when they photocopy your package for the ops group to look at. I would assume that you should put together some sort of presentable package unless you're told not to. Call or email the point of contact and ask them if they have anything against a nice presentation for the UPT package. Most UPT boards appreciate the time you spend into your package looking presentable...it says a lot about your desire and organizational skills. If you get an interview, I would definitely have some sort of presentable package w/ me when I went in front of the board.

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Completely agree with kmgraham79. Call the guy. Don't sound like a dumbass..."uh, how do I put my stuff together?" Ask "I have put a lot of thought into my app, and I want to make it stand out. What are you/the board looking for in an app?"

When I was the hiring guy, I wouldn't give advice unsolicited. However, if the applicant was genuinely interested and asked the right questions, I was there to help.

Personally, I hated bound apps or apps in a 3 ring binder. Took up too much room. They don't stack neatly, they slide off each other and they wouldn't fit in my drawer where I filed them. That pissed me off. You don't want the hiring guy pissed off at you.

Here's my opinions (these are mine and mine only):

1) Should I get this thing professionally bound?

No. It should look nice and be well organized. Professionally bound sounds like it will be big and bulky

2) If so, how should the OPRs be included? Split up so front and back are facing up?

Just slide each one in it's own page cover. Don't bother splitting them up

3) Should each page be laminated?

NO! We had a guy do this. We didn't hire him (not because it was laminated - other reasons). I would shred the packages of the folks we didn't hire and didn't update their apps or were ineligible for further boards due to age, scores, etc. I was able to shed them all...except his.

4) Should each page be removable?

Yes. Our DO takes the info out of the packages of the folks we hire and puts it in their PIF.

5) Photo: official head shot, or something casual like skiing, etc?

Sure, if you want your photo up all over the squadron after you get hired. We have "Mini Bob" in scheduling. He comes out every April and October to remind people to get ther semi annual requirements done.

6) Flying Class 1A....The copy I have is not stamped, does this matter?

Not at this point. I would try to acquire a stamped copy if it has been approved by the AETC/SG

7) Awards and Dec's...should I mention anything?

Yes. Absolutely. Put in a copy of that nice ribbon rack thing from vMPF if you want. Be ready for the board to ask you what each ribbon is for and which one, if any, is important to you. Let them know if you were the XXX of the quarter/year.

Finally...READ THE DIRECTIONS! If the application (if there is one) says Please Type...don't use a pencil.

BL: Make it neat, organized and durable. At my unit, each board member leafs through the apps multiple times. The coordinator will also go through it repeatedly. If you want to update it, make that easy to do. If your pages are laminated and professionally bound, and then you save someone from drowning at the base pool, how are you going to add that to your app? A simple report cover with a clip or SMALL rings should suffice. Plastic sheets for the pages. Nice paper for the resume, cover letter, etc. Bring your files to Kinkos, MBE, etc and spend the $10 to print them out on a no shit laser printer, or do it at work.

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Guest FlyingNetminder
And dont put the base patch or squadron insignia on the UPT package anywhere....quick way of getting yours thrown in the round file.

Interesting.. I've started putting the state flag on my recent packages. The squadron patch hadn't been an issue for three places, thus far.

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I appreciate the squadron patch, or something squadron related. I think it show's that at least they put some effort into different units.

Even though we hired someone that had our squadron patch on er app, but kept the "Black Birds" in er cover letter (wrong squadron). Er latter quit UPT just before solo, because Er got engaged.

:flipoff:

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Scooter14 pretty much summed it up. Also, we have to make a copy for each board member and the reason we don’t like bound/laminated/non-removable applications is because those things make it a pain in the ass to copy (pc load letter...WTF). The most annoying thing that we had to deal with was applicants not following the detailed instructions that we posted on our advertisement. Our board did require pictures of the applicants though.

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Guest Mr ANG

I used copies of DD-214's for awards and decs. It wasn’t the best way for sure!

The VMPF printout is a great idea. I wish I had thought of it. :banghead:

If I have to submit to another unit I will definitely look for more ways to reduce the number of pages.

My package was way too big... (or at least that’s what she said)

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Guest Rainman A-10
I agree: Read directions! My base states that it should be stapled once in the upper right hand corner and from what I understand, they wont look at the package if the applicant hasnt followed this one simple step.

Good Luck

That is awesome. I love that idea.

Our board did require pictures of the applicants though.

Why?

Out of curiosity, what role does that play in selecting people for interviews?

It should be zero. WTF difference does it matter what a person looks like?

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Guest jerseybum

My buddy and I are sending in guard apps right now and he just took a class that talked about how it's illegal for companies to request a picture, pretty ironic since our first app requiered a full length pic. Guess the rules don't apply to the military.

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Long time lurker here.

Ok, after 4 years of working in a shoe AFSC, I left AD and am now a reservist applying for a Guard pilot position. This question may seem pretty retarded, but I ask because I am pretty obsessive about this and want to make sure I get it right the first time.

I have assembled everything for the package itself, but wanted to know what folks would recommend as far as binding, etc.

1) Should I get this thing professionally bound?

2) If so, how should the OPRs be included? Split up so front and back are facing up?

3) Should each page be laminated?

4) Should each page be removable?

5) Photo: official head shot, or something casual like skiing, etc?

6) Flying Class 1A....The copy I have is not stamped, does this matter?

7) Awards and Dec's...should I mention anything?

I would appreciate any help I can get with this. I am age critical, have been through hell and back, and want this pretty damn bad.

Thanks!

- Will

i got mine bound at kinkos. generic spiral binding...they had no problems making copies of it for the different dudes to take a look at while they interviewed me. don't laminate and don't make them removable. don't use an official headshot...make the pics represent who you are. dunno about the fc1 stamp...mine was stamped. i didn't mention awards/decs but i'm not that type of a person. if they ask, i'll tell them. good luck dude.

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i got mine bound at kinkos. generic spiral binding...they had no problems making copies of it for the different dudes to take a look at while they interviewed me. don't laminate and don't make them removable. don't use an official headshot...make the pics represent who you are. dunno about the fc1 stamp...mine was stamped. i didn't mention awards/decs but i'm not that type of a person. if they ask, i'll tell them. good luck dude.

i used capital letters and punctuation in my application and it worked real well but i didnt get the slot i don't know why

Dude, once you bind it, it's done. You can't update it without it looking like crap.

Why not enclose awards/decs? OK, if you're wearing service dress, the ribbons speak for themselves, but if you were the top MX troop of the quarter and you also won top loader at William Tell, where does that ribbon go? How will they know to ask? If you're gonna pick a time to blow your own horn and show you are the best, I would argue that a UPT interview would probably be the time to do it. Think of it as a promotion board, especially if you are not an officer already. Make sure your shit is in one sock.

You're opening up a can of worms with the "personal picture" thing. Like Rainman said, it doesn't matter what you look like. Your credentials should speak for themselves. That should paint the picture. he interview is when they will see how you have put your uniform together, how you conduct yourself.

If the unit requires a pic...whatever. I'd just put in something generic. If you want to give the board a good laugh and then watch your app move over to the "check out this dork" pile, enclose that "hero shot" of you with one leg up on PA 28-140 N47979 at the FBO in your jeans and your leather jacket or you in your crisp white CFII shirt sporting the Ray Bans. Or, better yet, the one of you kickin it with your bros sippin a cold Keystone Light. Yum.

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Photos were requested after the applicants were selected for an interview...there not used in the selection process. When your interviewing 20+ dudes, photos help keep 'em straight.

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i used capital letters and punctuation in my application and it worked real well but i didnt get the slot i don't know why

Dude, once you bind it, it's done. You can't update it without it looking like crap.

Why not enclose awards/decs? OK, if you're wearing service dress, the ribbons speak for themselves, but if you were the top MX troop of the quarter and you also won top loader at William Tell, where does that ribbon go? How will they know to ask? If you're gonna pick a time to blow your own horn and show you are the best, I would argue that a UPT interview would probably be the time to do it. Think of it as a promotion board, especially if you are not an officer already. Make sure your shit is in one sock.

You're opening up a can of worms with the "personal picture" thing. Like Rainman said, it doesn't matter what you look like. Your credentials should speak for themselves. That should paint the picture. he interview is when they will see how you have put your uniform together, how you conduct yourself.

If the unit requires a pic...whatever. I'd just put in something generic. If you want to give the board a good laugh and then watch your app move over to the "check out this dork" pile, enclose that "hero shot" of you with one leg up on PA 28-140 N47979 at the FBO in your jeans and your leather jacket or you in your crisp white CFII shirt sporting the Ray Bans. Or, better yet, the one of you kickin it with your bros sippin a cold Keystone Light. Yum.

good points you brought up. this was my first interview and how i went at it. hopefully it'll work out, i should find out shortly.

there was no criteria on how the package was supposed to be put together so i took the innitiative to go about binding it. if the roe said to put a staple in the top left corner i would have done that.

i was in service dress so they could see what i've done. not a whole lot, only have one commendation medal for my whopping two row fruitbowl. obviously the rest were for showing up to work on time. i did include in my package my oprs and my 215 which has all the awards i've won so thats why i didn't include a separate list or anything like that. i guess looking back my previous statement post didn't make sense. all the awards/decs were in my package, they were just buried in my oprs and 215 and not separately listed. did i have written down or include my force shaping letter that said my wing ranking of 1/12 at all in my package? no...i just mentioned it when the subject came up about how long my commitment is to AD and i said that i find out 1 may if i get force shaped. i think there are ways of mentioning your accomplishments w/o explicitly including them in your rush package on a separate sheet.

i thought a lot about including a picture or pictures in my package. i decided to go for it and figured i'd roll the dice on being put in the tool pile. i'd definately agree with you about not putting in the hero shot picture. mine were a couple solo ones i had that people have taken of me out and about, one of me and my mom, and one of my and my boys at a bar in greece. all decent pictures that you can't really make fun of in my opinion. they didn't ask for pictures but i put them in anyways. i overheard one of the pilots saying to one of the candidates taht they like getting the pictures so that they can put a face with a package, see if you're physically fit with in air force height and weight standards etc. i think it's a good idea and gives you an incite into the personality of the person.

some words of advice that i saw from the other dudes at the interview that i think they screwed up on. never, ever, ever ever, ever bring your cell phone with you. one dude kept looking at it while at the squadron bar and several of the pilots made faces about it. you're there for them, not your girlfriend or wife who keeps texting you. leave it in your car. if you were a highschool/college cheerleader do not mention it unless your a woman and you can still put your ankles behind your head or jump and land doing the splits. if you're a dude...yeah you got to put your hand in crotch all day but at the end of the day, you're still a male cheerleader. and my last words of advice....do not ask the dudes if you can log the sim time that you just got when they had you fly a quick profile. who gives a crap if you've flown 15 mins in a A-10, F-16, KC-135 sim. just be glad that you were given the opportunity to play around a little bit in their sim.

like i said, this was my first interview for a guard/reserve unit. i'm sure i made mistakes, everybody does. it was a great learning experience that i'll use the time i'm having to go through it again.

Edited by Login Name

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I think the thread has a lot of good information and opinions all around on how people out apps together. You are right, you can paint a piece of crap gold, and it will be gold crap. On the flip side, you can be one of the highest qualified candidates ever to slip the surly bonds, but if you write your downloadable app in felt tip pen (seen it) and staple it together with two or three staples (seen it), wrinkle it up (seen it) and mail it in past the deadline, you ain't gonna make it.

I don't recall seeing more than a handful of units publish instructions on how to bind the application. The ones that do have different requirements...some ask for a manila folder only. Some want more. If you don't know the answer, you are supposed to ask.

I collected apps for two UPT boards at my unit. I could tell a Riddle app just by picking it up. Ambiguous cover letter, generically adressed rec letters, a shitload of hours. Generally neat and organized. Cookie cutter. You guys must have a class on how to do Guard apps. Problem was, nothing grabbed anyone's attention. Just another CFII who wants a Guard job "somewhere."

We want a person who wants a career flying with US.

So, Mr. I have a Guard Pilot Slot man, care to share some wisdom as to how you got your slot and actually contribute to this discussion, or will sitting back and throwing insults and sarcastic comments suit you for now?

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Here is how I did my stuff. I got two alternates and a primary slot (just to show you it might help you guys)

I did not staple anything (unless it says otherwise!!) I had everything printed out on nice paper, but not super duper expensive stuff. I put everything into an order that made it easy to read and follow.

-Cover letter or specific unit sheet

-resume

-pcsm score

-afoqt score

-3-5 letter of recomendation (put the one I felt was the best as first)

-official college transcripts

if the unit had anything else they asked for make sure to add it in.

I then took all the papers and used a paper clip in the top left corner to hold them together and then stuck it in a plain color folder. I used blue (not gay light blue, but dark manly AF blue! Dont just use any old folder laying around, go out and get yourself a new one that costs 30 cents). I then take the folder and stick it in a manilla envelope and put the address on it. Then you can mail it out. The folder makes it nice because they stack the packages, and it wont be falling off and go all over the ground. Plus it keeps all your stuff together in a nice and easy to read manor. The paper clip allows them to flip through the package freely.

I addressed every resume and cover letter to the specific unit I applied to. I didnt apply to every fighter unit, so it wasnt hard. Take the time and do this because it shows you are a little more interested in than just the regular jow blow wanting to fly jets at any location.

any questions on stuff just ask away!

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Guest elcidwill

For those who think my original post was a little paranoid and nitpicky...here's why. Maybe someone in my shoes could use the info.

The first unit I approached had a lot of guys who fly for UPS. If someone sent in a package via FedEx, it never got opened, straight into the trashcan. The hiring notice won't tell you that.

Some ask for pictures. Then they post the hero shots all over the conference room. Others use them to keep people's faces straight. The hiring notice won't tell you that.

The unit I am pushing hard for had very ambiguous package instructions. When you want something bad enough, the most ridiculously small detail counts. I am approaching the age limit and cannot afford to make even the smallest mistake. So I asked for and recieved some great advice. That's why I came here.

Because of folks like Scooter, I have a better idea of the things to expect from a culture and mission I am not experienced with.

My package is not "a piece of crap". I am not attempting to dress up substandard material, I just have a habit of being as prepared as possible, because I don't take these things for granted.

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Guest sleepy

I agree that this thread is much more beneficial than it is nitpicky. Some thought has to go into presentation. Of course one can overthink it, but there are also simple things that make a big difference. Each unit is different, but the rules of thumb contained here are golden.

Good luck, Will and everyone else. Keep at it!

Edited by sleepy

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Hey all,

For hard copy applications, should I use the nice printer paper for the whole application, or am I over thinking it and just use the nice stuff for the cover letter/resume? I have a bunch of the nice stuff but not sure if I should overuse it.

Thanks!

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I've ran a board or two and been on 6 or 7 hiring boards.  Biggest piece of advice I can give is read each squadrons instructions thoroughly and do what it says...don't try to church it up thinking they'll appreciate it.  We used to say place a single staple in the upper left corner and no protective covers.  You wouldn't believe how many people would send there app in a spiral binding and plastic covering.  We want the single staple because all we do is rip it out and run copies of your app for everyone on the board.  Don't overthink it, I would just put it all on the same paper.

More advice...

- Be sure to double check your cover letter and recs.  I've received more than one app that had a cover letter talking about their dream to fly a F-15s (or KC-135s)...I appreciate that, but we fly F-16s lol.  Personally, I don't mind it because I remember being there and it shows me there applying elsewhere and this is probably someone who really wants it.  

- If you can go visit the squadron, do so!  Multiple times if you can swing it and they're ok with it.  Face time is great so all the guys can get to know you...puts a face with the app.

- During the interview, be yourself.  Don't tell us what you think we want to here (it's obvious), just answer the question the best you can.  

- Know the mission of jet you're applying to fly...not just that the F-16s shoots missiles and drops bombs.  We don't expect you to recite doctrine, but have a little more understanding than just we go fast, pull-Gs and bomb bad guys.

- Be prepared for an oddball questions or even to tell a funny story.  

 

Best of luck!

Edited by SocialD
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  • Upvote 1

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@SocialD Appreciate the advice, and I definitely agree with you on following each and every instruction no matter how small. I was planning on following the advice of one of the posters further up: simple (nice) folder and paperclip, no fancy binding (assuming direction from the posting or POC doesn't specify) such that it's easy to take out, thumb through, and make copies. I just wasn't sure about the paper situation but seems like keeping it simple and uniform is the way to go.

Much appreciated!

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