ATC or pilot

[Guest someatcguy]

Allcon,

If you had your choice between ATC or being a commercial pilot, what would you choose? I hold all ratings in the control tower, RAPCON, and center to include Watch Supervisor. Not to toot my own horn, but I hold all FAA complex ratings. However, I love flying and in another 7 hours plus the long X-C, I will hold commercial with instrument ratings. Why do I bring this up? In as little as 500 hours I can become a pilot with several regionals without ATP hours and can build on the regional carriers. I love to fly...God, do I love to fly, but ATC is a job that I look forward to doing. I absolutely, without question, love to perform ATC duties; damn, I love ATC. My question is this: if you, the person qualified to comment on this had to choose, what would you choose: flying or controlling, or both...how so on the both portion?

[HerkDerka]

Commercial flying is a gamble. It will be expensive and take time for you to have enough hours to get a job with a regional that barely pays the rent. And even when you're making bank flying the triple seven, everytime your airline takes a hit, your job is in jeopardy.

ATC is a government job, so a little more security. But the pay in civie ATC changes depending on where you are working. You'll make a load more cash if you're working TRACON in New York or LA as opposed to ground, tower, AND approach in Bum F-ck, Montana.

Just figure out which one would suit you better. Whether you're flying for food or not, you can still fly.

HD

[ 17. June 2006, 18:18: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

[Guest someatcguy]

I should clarify this:

it's NOT about money. Pilotage, to me, is the satisfaction of departing and arriving at a locale without the use of, well, ATC, and that is a joy. To me, the joy of flying is not a job, it is a privelege. Where else can you fly an aircraft from A to B and be responsible for invaluable property. I think that some pilots have lost the joy of flying and have forgotten what it is like to feel the exuberance of flying to a new destination, departing a high altitude airport, vectored as #15 to 20 as the arrival to that airport. I don't understand the mundaneness presented by some pilots to this. As the old adage goes....student pilots long to be the commercial pilot in charge of many; the commercial pilot longs to feel the joy of flying period. Where am I going wrong?

[Guest someatcguy]

After reading this initial post a few times, a pilot can easily become a controller in a minimal amount of time. As long as the 3-d concept is used, in conjunction with mental attributes, and math, s/he can beome a fine controller. I did not mean to insinuate that only ATC can transition to pilot. Happy flying to all.

[HerkDerka]

The reason you don't understand the mundaneness of going from A to B is because you haven't flying long enough. It gets old.

It's also different when the bean counters are breathing down your neck to save every ounce of gas and get the gear on the pavement on time, no matter what. Not to mention being gone from home all of the time.

For military flying, add that same type of noise to a combat environment with a bunch of ragheads taking pot-shots at you because they're too stupid to know better.

Then throw in things like waiting four hours on a rolling ETIC on a Friday night tac line, flying through thunder boomers because you can't go around, sweating bullets inside a hot aircraft on a ramp in the desert, and going through all of this to land at your destination to find AMD has no requirements for you.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Each type of military aircraft has their own unique things that increase the suckage. Military flyers are pushed to the limit tens times more than your basic civie-raised pilot. This also means that military pilots experience the types of adrenaline-fueled flight that civie guys only dream about. Low level, NVG low level, assault work, formation, combat, BFM, TFM. When you are used to flying like this, going from A to B is just driving a big bus in the sky.

These things lead to guys losing sight of how great it is to fly. But when you are paid to fly, it's a job. Eventually the realization will come.

There are still plenty of times when I'm in the airplane that I get a good rush and think about how great my job is. But for professional aviators, flying is no longer a dream...it's a reality. That reality changes how you look at things.

To address your last statement, guys who are new to flying altogether, still have ambition in their flying. The older farts, long to go back to consequence-free flying.

Same old story with a different title. The grass is greener on the other side.

HD

[Guest someatcguy]

Can is right...it may get boring at times. No one has explained to me why it gets mundane at times. What about the extended vectoring, intercepting at mins, having to divert, the high (low) fives from the pax, the kids coming to you as a role model, the looks, stares, questions, you receive while in a flight suit. Not to pass my religion on to those concerned, money is only flesh, what about the joy of spirituality. I know, spirit, does not pay the bills...don't live beyond your means is my answer. In case I did not say it, I flew with an F-18 pilot that became low man on the totem pole in a SW/SC reg paying 18K a year. He is happy nonetheless.

[Guest someatcguy]

HD,

I don't want this thread to have only my inputs or justifications, so I will try to limit myself. You are correct on all statements in your above post; however, you describe military flying moreso than civilian. You, I, and everyone else knows the difference so it is unfair to quantify one-sided logic. Not busting you!!!! Don't take it that way!! Where is that damn smiley face?

BN

[Guest ralph]

There are going to be lots of ATC jobs now that they passed that law.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by someatcguy:

you describe military flying moreso than civilian. You, I, and everyone else knows the difference so it is unfair to quantify one-sided logic.

That's true, but that's because military is the only type of flying I know. I don't pretend to know anything more about airline flying than I posted above. Hopefully you could deduce a few conclusions from it though.

SnakeT38 would be a good guy to ask airline questions.

HD

[Rocker]

HD, that was a good post there. However, someatcguy, any job can become "the grind" no matter how much you enjoy it, as I'm sure you well know. Or if not the job itself, without a doubt certain aspects of the job. I don't care what it is - there are things that suck about everything. But if you're the type who can see past all that in the long term, then I say it's worth it. Define reality, but include the fact that this is your one and only chance at life on Earth. Don't be an old man looking back at your days wishing you'd done something differently. Now that would suck. If you want to fly, then go fly. It would be good to have plans B and C, but don't pass up a feasible and smart aspiration just because you're comfortable where you are.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting -- died!"

-George W. Cecil

Cheesy - hopefully not, but one of my favorite quotes and applicable.

[Guest sleepy]

I'm no authority, but since you asked me...

Just as everyone else has said, I don't know a single airline guy who enjoys airline flying. At least not anymore.

Most, if not all, controllers I know love their job, just like you. If I didn't have a wild hair up my butt to serve my country and fly for the military, I'd do the ATC thing. (It is still a backup plan for me.) If I'm lucky enough to get wings, I plan on going back to grad school as soon as my seasoning is complete.

As you mentioned, flying x-c via pilotage is a blast. I've flown halfway across the country and back without talking to a soul (not even FSS on the way out--that was STUPID on me), never getting over 2,500 msl, no GPS, just a chart in my lap. Absolutely loved it.

You're going to reap the fruits of your labor much sooner than I will if you stick with what you got. Good luck!

[Guest TheBurt]

atcguy,

Some of the risks of an aviation career have nothing to do with flying, what does this mean you ask? A few are lucky enough to have rich parents, trust fund, or whatever, to pay for the enormous costs of flight training, however, most have committed their entire life to aviation, and this has meant enormous personal and financial sacrifices with No guarantees. From the guy that takes out student loans he may have no hope or idea on how he will pay it back working 2 jobs in addition to CFI duties, to the guy who pays his way through college, suffering through 4 years of ROTC hoping to get a pilot slot, then there's the guy that enlists, gets his degree at night, works a part-time job after that delivering pizza's to pay for flying lessons hoping to get that job flying for some shitty 135 single pilot night freight/cancelled check operation in hopes of landing a little less shitty job flying at another 135 operation to get a less shitty job flying for a regional with slim prospects of getting anything better or it may seem at the time.

Military flying is not the "easy way" either, and full of dissapointments and dues paying of Epic proportions.

Yes, you can go get your Private or Sport license, get an airplane and become an "enthusiast". To get to the "spiritual, Touch the Face of God" flying, you will have to sell your soul to the beautiful whore we call aviation. Until then, you will not understand much of what is discussed on this board and other places when professional aviators get together.

Good luck on your decision.......

[ 17. June 2006, 22:37: Message edited by: TheBurt ]