The_Vandall
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Posts posted by The_Vandall
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Was just chatting with a coworker today about Air Force issues. For the past decade plus, the military had been in a situation where they felt they had too many folks. The common response to complaints was, "Well, if you don't like it, then get out!" Now, the military has too few folks, and they're starting to realize that they need to start fixing the things that folks complain about in order to keep people in service. The Air Force in particular has had an extremely difficult time transitioning from the "then get out!" mentality. Rather than realize that folks are in fact voting with their feet, the Air Force just tries to throw more money at them rather than deal with the real issues and complaints that folks have.
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35 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:
DNPs are not included in the RAW numbers.
Dang! Good to know!
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4 hours ago, FourFans130 said:
Was anyone else a little surprised by the stats on RAW?
The stats make sense to me. The AF stated that they were going to use a 100% promotion "opportunity", and the numbers pretty much reflect folks having had a 100% opportunity. I would imagine that the only folks that did not promote would be those that a.) were submitted as "Do Not Promote", b.) asked to not be promoted, or c.) had significant Quality Force Indicators (QFI). Overall, only 4.3% of Captains that met the board (38 IPZ and 77 APZ) did not get selected for promotion. Furthermore, as someone above posted, some folks that had QFI may still have a chance to be selected for promotion, pending a review by the SecAF or other entities.
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2 hours ago, Duck said:
Did they post the stats yet?
Yup. It's out on RAW. Labeled as 17B (it'll open to 17D once the spreadsheet pops up).
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So...in the zone was 98.4% and above the zone was 72.3%, eh? 😅
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50 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:
I am 99.69% certain that promotion boards are not given any access to any aspect of your medical records. Check PRDA for your selection folder, that’s what the board sees, and there is no way your medical records are included.Correct. The board has no access to medical status. The board results though, still need to go to through the HAF, SecAF, and OSD filters. And yup, just wild speculation/conspiracy theory on my part.
41 minutes ago, B.L said:That would be all well and good, however, they never put out an “as met” package in PRDA. More shady work from this board.
Indeed. I've never seen PRDA used as they specify in the promo board PSDM. I usually don't see my promo board folder uploaded until after the board meets, and they've never posted an "as met" folder in my PRDA.
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50 minutes ago, guineapigfury said:
Were PRFs mandated for people with negative indicators? Maybe if we're short Majors and the Wing CC says a guy with some marks on his record is deserving of promotion to that grade anyway ... just give him the damn oak leaves.
Yup. I believe the guidance required PRF narratives in two instances- 1.) if the member was being marked as "Do Not Promote", and 2.) if the member was being marked as "Promote" and they had negative QFI (UIF, Art 15, etc).
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4 minutes ago, jazzdude said:
That's messed up. There's a process to separate people for medical reasons, the MEB. The promotion board is not the place to separate people for medical reasons.
Indeed. It's highly unlikely that it'd happen. Also, RJ09 above noted that the reason for the board delay was due to some senior raters trying to squeeze people with QFI through the board.
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4 minutes ago, RJ09 said:
To an extent permitted by law, which is why they have experts who adjudicate these matters through the MEB process and not the promotion board process.
The reason it is taking so long is upon review at HAF, it was noticed that someone people who received a P from their commanders probably should not have when their record contained several QFIs that would otherwise make them not qualified to serve in the next higher grade. Instead of attaching a PRF and/or sending a PRF, commanders just used this "new" process to slip them in. As such, HAF went through every record to make sure those who were promoted actually "deserved it" based on members' OPRs, medals, TRs, and the OSB.
Whoa! That's way more info than the Air Force has been offering up. They've been comms silent on CY17D board. On AF Portal they're just pushing the blame on OSD for the current reason as to why they're so late on announcing the board results.
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5 minutes ago, RJ09 said:
And they think they are getting sued now from HIV guy. If the military stops promoting people based on medical status, I could see this going wrong in so many ways, it's not even funny. And to pick a board that should've been 100% promote to test it out is beyond stupid.
Agreed! As far as I know though, the military is freely able to discriminate based upon medical status. For instance, someone with asthma is essentially banned from any potential physically stressful military career (pilot, SOF, TACP, etc). Again, it's just my wild speculation. It's just doesn't make much sense as to why an supposedly easy promotion board is being tied up for so long.
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On 6/1/2018 at 6:09 PM, Duck said:
In all seriousness, something is going on. I’ve never seen a board delayed this bad with ZERO explanation from our Senior Overlords.
When you hear a bunch of noise in your kid's room, you generally know that nothing suspicious is going on. It's when the room becomes suddenly silent that you worry that they're doing something they shouldn't be doing. I kinda get a feeling that the AF is doing something they shouldn't be doing for CY17D.
Normally, we promote roughly 90% of Captains to Major. There's a sizable portion of that 10% that don't make it that already have something significantly negative in their history which would generally disqualify them from promotion anyway. So why is it then that the AF, and presumably now the DepSecDef, is taking so long to process the board results?
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Wild speculation here, but this is an opportunity for the AF to separate non-deployable and ALC-C coded folks without MEB'ing or re-MEB'ing them. To separate someone solely based upon their medical status requires an MEB, but it's certainly possible to not promote someone based upon their medical status. If a service twice non-selects someone, they can then force them to separate through Title 10, Section 632. Typically, medical status is not directly considered during the promotion board (though it could be indirectly considered if a person's medical status prevents them from deploying). Just speculation, but the DoD's Universal Retention Policy ("Deploy or Get Out") was released roughly a week before the board results made it to the SecAF (14 Feb and 21 Feb, respectively).
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56 minutes ago, Swizzle said:
Interesting speculation...
But does the near-blanket continuation letter cover the gap?
The two month gap between when SecAF had the board results until they were finally reported into OSD? No idea. I know it's not just my opinion that the Air Force is the worst service when it comes to discussing their issues with the rest of the world.
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While I'm waiting for AFPC to update the Selective Continuation page on MyPers for the CY18B LAF Lt Col promotion board (they're three days late...not shocked), I noticed that the Air Force never posted a Selective Continuation page for LAF (non-JAG) once passed-over Captains being considered for CY17D's Major's board. They did, however, post selective continuation info for LAF-J and Chaplains Majors meeting their CY17D Lt Col board at the same time. I take that to mean that the Air Force did in fact extend the 100% promotion opportunity to Captains in their first APZ board...and that they did NOT hold a continuation board for passed-over Captains as they did not intend to continue any passed-over Captains that haven't already been continued in a prior board.
I wonder if part of the delay of the board results release is that the Air Force needed to hold a hasty continuation board for APZ non-selected Captains to keep them in?
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Questions about selective continuation? If passed over to Major (meaning, you are a Captain and twice non-selected for promotion to Major), you may then meet a continuation board. The result is similar if you are a Major twice passed over for Lieutenant Colonel. Continuation boards are only held if the secretary of the service (for the AF, the SecAF) decides that they need to retain personnel from one or more career fields. If selected for continuation, you are initially offered continuation to 20 years (thus allowing you to serve until retirement). If you are a Major, you could meet a second continuation board following any of your future promotion boards and potentially be offered continuation to 24 years. So, 20 years max for Captains, 24 years max for Majors. Once continued, the only way you can be "discontinued" is if the secretary of the service suddenly decides that they no longer need personnel within the currently continued career fields. You can't be "discontinued" administratively for any other reason. Of course, you could be forced out administratively or punitively due to other issues such as dismissal due to an Article 15.
Note- you CAN decline continuation. For instance, if you are a Major and have already accepted continuation to 20 years and are subsequently offered continuation to 24 years, you can decline the continuation to 24 year and still be able to serve till 20 years and retire.
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My buddy said MPF is telling him no to TERA
Quick question- was he offered continuation?
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Simply incredible.
Reminds me of the movie "Inception". With that letter, the Air Force created an idea, even in the minds of people who might have stayed in, that "The AF is done with me and I am done with the AF."
I wonder how many came to accept that idea before the reversal.
Having survived through cuts beginning back in 2006...I think a lot of folks have been keeping "options" warmed up on the back burner. An officer would have to be pretty thick-skulled and naive to not be ready with an alternative or two in regard to their service in the AF.
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He's saying if you're denied continuation you can TERA.
Thanks! I guess I wasn't very clear. Yeah, what I meant was that if you are not offered continuation then you may be allowed to opt for TERA.
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I think anyone forced out through the continuation board process is actually entitled to TERA. I had created a previous post about it, but because I had included a link in the post it required moderator approval. So, here's the info:
Under Title 10 Code 632, Paragraph (2), Section (a), if a member is forced to separate due to being twiced passed over for promotion (and not continued as under Code 637 of Title 10), then the member: if he is eligible for retirement under any provision of law, be retired under that law on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time;
You can look it up yourself by searching for Title 10 Code 632. Cornell University is a good site for it.
As the results of the board were reported in May, then members are required to leave service by 01 December of this year. As TERA is enacted by Congress (and therefore a law), then anyone separated after their 15 point is entitled to TERA.
ALSO, big update. According to the DFAS website TERA is extended through 01 December 2025. I'd post the link, but just search for "temporary early retirement authority DFAS" in Google. The DFAS page was updated on May 15th.
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13 minutes ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:
... and it was just posted.
Speak of the devil! Checking it out now.
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From AF Portal:
"Public release of the CY17A Colonel (MSC), Lt Col (LAF/MSC) and Major (MSC) Central Selection Boards will be Tuesday, 23 May, 1400Z (0900 CDT). AFPC will post the select lists on myPers by 1200 CDT on 24 May."
They've given themselves until Noon Central time to post the list on myPers. The myPers site doesn't seem to want to load up at the moment though. It's being overwhelmed with the MSgt promotion release list.
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I don't think the AF ever posts continuation stats.
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Just jumping into the conversation as I'm also a recent passed-over in my 1APZ board (but still waiting on the selective continuation result). I think the two pilots are still eligible for TERA, right? Though the Air Force doesn't want to "offer" TERA, they are still "authorized" by Congress for TERA through December 2018. Though I'm no lawyer, I am pretty good at research. Here's a link to Code 632 of Title 10: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/632
Take a look under paragraph (2) under section (a): "if he is eligible for retirement under any provision of law, be retired under that law on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time;"
A person being separated passed the 15 year point is eligible for retirement under TERA. From what I've heard from another member, though the AF doesn't want to "offer" TERA, they cannot deny it to folks being denied continuation (if they are going to be separated after the 15 year point).
What's wrong with the Air Force?
in General Discussion
Posted
Agreed. $35K is not enough. I believe they tried to raise it higher ($42K or $45K I think), but it still wouldn't be enough. The insidious part of the bonus though is the ADSC that comes with it. For whatever reason, the Air Force seems to feel like it is perfectly fine to F over folks that are stuck with an ADSC.