[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

I just got off the phone with the TFSC. He said I don't have an answer because officer notifications had to go out manually and those that haven't gotten one yet would be notified by the end of the week. So, that's their current talking point.

Congrats to those approved, good luck to those waiting, and God have mercy on the poor bastards denied.

'05 11M UPT ADSC only

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

It could be that they met their goal for '05 via voluntary measures or it could be that they don't want to have a RIF for similar reasons that '04 was never going meet a RIF board in FY14. They were already selects and non-selects. They don't want to get rid of the selects and the non-selects are already leaving the YG relatively soon anyway. Now '05 is meeting our promotion board (finally), and the RIF board is so close to the same time that it's redundant. Remember, these programs are to meet end strength over the next 5 years and they're front-loading the programs to get it done now, but if somebody is up-or-out in 4 years, that's 5 year plan met.

Keep in mind the answer to many of these questions is literally nobody knows and even if they did, it wouldn't matter because they're going to change again next month.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

If I'm understanding the rack and stack of approvals for VSPs correctly (year group, AFSC, ADSC remaining), based on what others have said, then any '06 year group, 11M, will be racked and stacked generally pretty similar to what UPT class they were in (08-01 thru 08-15). Does that check? Because the folks in the earlier classes would've had ADSC's starting sooner. What would change this order would be how weighted the other ADSC's are, such as for GI Bill transfer, TA, PCS, etc. If AFPC is just adding up all ADSC remaining for a given individual, then that would mix it up completely. But if more weight is given to the UPT ADSC, then a dude from 08-01, in this example, would be in a better position for approval than a dude from 08-15.

My guess based on absolutely no information is that they'll rack and stack each year group and the only thing that will matter is when your last ADSC runs out. Because as my used-to-fly-a-moose colleague points out, AFPC is a bunch of half-wits that couldn't handle anything more complicated.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

I think we're going to see a moderate number of rated VSPs approved over the next few days and many YG/AFSCs taken out of the mix for RIF. I doubt they want to cut rated numbers so much as they want it to seem like everybody is feeling the cuts. We wouldn't want the shoe force to get their feelings hurt or they'll never process my travel voucher. Approve my laundry expenses motherf&%$#&s!

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Just sit tight and wait it out. You're app is not going to change until after 1 May.

Yeah...every day takes longer when deployed, though.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Sorry, for those of you who were denied recently. My VSP is still awaiting "adjudication". I'm wondering if your CMS status changed from "Referred to Voluntary Separation BPO" at any point. Mine changed to "Referred to Voluntary Separation Pay Off" a few weeks ago and I'm hoping this is where approved applications go to wait for Adjudication Day (May 1st). Anyone who has been approved notice the progression of offices your application went through? I think we're smarter than AFPC and can figure out their Rube Goldberg device.

Note: I'm talking about CMS and not the status on your application in the Separations application. That hasn't changed for me since it passed my Wg/CC and says "Referred to BPO".

Obviously, I'm quoting from memory because vMPF is down yet again. Fortunately, I've looked at these statuses so often, I'm fairly certain I remember them.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Can you email me the new matrix email? Bjbbiker@aol.com

Thanks

"You never have too much gas...unless you're on fire"

You may have been queued for approval 1 May and they made your YG ineligible because they had enough applications (including yours). I wouldn't abandon all hope. Now that I've expressed support for our friend and colleague, let the good-natured mockery of his email begin...

But nobody sign him up for any biker porn newsletters!

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Back to TERA...I submitted back in January. I have no ADSCs (11M) and I'm on the summer VML. I thought they were holding my assignment until my TERA decision was made, but I was notified of my assignment today. So now I have 7 days to decide on my assignment. It would be nice if I could talk to a REAL person about my options WRT taking the assignment and how that impacts TERA. Oh and that comes with a 15 June RNLTD.

If I were you, I'd go to your local FSS and ask the highest ranking person available to call AFPC with you. I'd also adopt the mindset that I wouldn't leave their building until I had an answer of some kind. Your CC also ought to be involved.

That being said, I don't think you have an issue. If you take a look at the ADSC AFI, I think you'll find that you have 7 days to accept the assignment. You have to sign an acknowledgement of the ADSC you'll be incurring, but you don't have an ADSC at that point. You would acquire the ADSC when you actually PCS. Therefore, if you get accepted for TERA, your assignment is cancelled and you're never assigned a PCS ADSC. Presumably, there's language in the TERA PSDM that assignments are cancelled when TERA is approved. Hope that helps and good luck.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Apology? That's nice and all, but they deserve to retire exactly as previously approved. And I'd imagine they're going to get really vocal in agreement of that point of view if somebody in charge doesn't overrule this ridiculous (and possibly unlawful) "take back".

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

There's an interesting statement in the Q&A for the voluntary matix on MyPers. I wish I'd copied it when I was on a computer with a CAC reader, but it says when the blocks go red, the AFSC/YG won't meet a RIF board. Maybe somebody can grab the exact wording for everyone. Have we finally found out how many times the SECAF and CSAF have to say something before the middle managers actually follow their guidance? (Only have a RIF board if there aren't enough volunteers.)

I was planning to submit a "RIF me" letter to the board if my VSP application was denied...again. If MyPers can be believed (they can't, but here's hoping), those of us who have applied for VSP wouldn't meet a RIF board. We'd either have our VSP approved or run out of overage and a RIF board wouldn't be necessary.

On another bit of good news, with only 1,400 VSP applications, it seems likely that 550 waivers is enough to cover most if not all of the people requesting one. Some fraction of the applicants are eligible based on YG/AFSCs. Some fraction of those applicants are rated. Some further fraction of those applicants have an ADSC other than the ones listed in PSDM 13-65. It seems to me that final number would be less than 550. For you nerds out there, this is a logical argument anologous to the Drake equation. If you don't know what that is and want to, look it up yourself. I'm not wikipedia.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

I'm wondering why it is so hard for an Air Force leader...

Phrasing!

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

so since mine was kicked back in feb for UPT ADSC i resubmitted on 3/20. My SQ/CC sent it up to the wing 3/21 and it's still sitting with WG/CC...awesome.

same

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Fellow BaseOpers

Over the past few months, we have been forced to navigate through some of the roughest waters most of us have ever experienced professionally. We've seen the reputation of our beloved AFPC and America's Air, Space, and Cyberspace missions tarnished because of the extraordinarily selfish actions of officers entrusted with the most powerful personnel center ever devised by man. As you are now learning, the ramifications are dire. Many lives will be permanently changed as a result.

But this costly lesson must not be in vain.

The lesson? Had just one solitary airman spoken up for integrity, our leadership team would have been able to take action immediately.

Tragically, peer pressure and the fear of being an outcast prevailed. As a result, the misconduct had yet to be inadvertently discovered by OSI agents.

Think of how different the narrative would be had the silent Airman just come forward. That airman would now be lionized as a hero for casting aside his or her own fear of being made an outcast by a few inadequate peers.

That airman would have single-handedly preserved the honor and dignity of AFPC and all the wonderful people who make up this incredible organization.

But it didn't happen. Wrong won out over right ... the voice of integrity was silenced ... and the good guy lost at the end of the movie.

This is a wake-up call for everyone who has lost their sense of right and wrong, for those who have become cynical and for those indoctrinated by modern society to acquiesce when faced with bad behavior.

"All that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing." I highlighted this old axiom as the main point of my change of command speech a little over a year ago. I implored our formations of airmen that it never be said of AFPC that "we did nothing" in the face of evil. I can't imagine a more vivid reinforcement of that lesson than what we're going through now.

Edited: Just in case you guys/gals haven't read this letter...

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2014/mar/27/nuke-missile-base-commanders-resignation-letter/

Note: At no point does he take personal responsibility for failure. I guess it was just bad luck all those dishonest junior officers ended up at his otherwise awesome wing. /sarcasm

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

I believe that my esteemed colleague of the tiny Cessna flying persuasion is trying to say that our senior managers have failed utterly at this program so far. Does anyone know for sure that they're not going to be told by some AFPC E-5/GS-7 that they're somehow ineligible? Does anybody know what criteria they're going to use in order to select from among those eligible? Does anyone know when or how they'll find out about the next several years of their life? Without being able to answer these reasonable and essential questions, we are nowhere after three months.

As we stumble around in the dark as effectively as we can, let's not forget it's pathetic that there is no light.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

mine is also listed under previous applications but it also doesnt give me an option to edit it and resubmit....

I just created a new application. I don't know if that was the right decision, but I couldn't take the waiting.

Whenever you reapply, you should use the new statement of understanding from 14-08.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

What did you hear?

I want to resubmit mine as well, but I am afraid to do that if they are going to re-activate my previous application that had a time stamp of 0006CST on 6 Feb. I know it's not first come first serve, but I wan't every chance I can get.

The woman I talked to didn't seem to know anything. She wasn't aware of any impending ADSC waiver authority being granted and she said there was no way to do anything with an application after it was denied, so I would need to reapply. For what its worth, my old application with the earlier time stamp is still listed under previous applications.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Talking to afpc today, they said they are filtering through apps and kicking back disapproved VSP apps while waiting on air staff to give the green light on adsc waivers. Do any of you ever call Mypers, or is it just about bitching on this forum and not taking any action?

Yes VSP is on hold but it's on hold for the medical and adsc waivers. Maybe they will or maybe they won't approve them. Reapply if you haven't already and make sure the verbiage is correct "FY14 Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) program".

I have called Mypers at least 10 times to see where my app is since I have not been denied yet and my original app has been at afpc since the beginning of Feb. They will tell you if it's in the batch box which is the "waiting area" for the program that they will run when they get the go ahead from HAF. It will pull all your data from MILPDS to see if you qualify, and that's about it.

Sooooo long story short, reapply if you were originally denied.

I called AFPC today and heard a completely different story, but you make a compelling argument, so I resubmitted my application.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

UPT is not listed as a waiverable ADSC in the PSDMS. Why are people still getting wrapped around that axle? I can't understand the straw grasping at this unambiguous fact. If/when they make it waiverable it's not going to be a secret and won't require any sleuthing to figure out.

Frankly all the folks who fired off applications for VSP who were clearly not eligible are just slowing down the process for those that are.

They changed the PSDMs two days before the window opened adding that little reference to 13-65. That reference was only in the VSP PSDM and not in the RIF PSDM, 13-130. Why would we think 13-130 applied to those of us eligible for the RIF? Because AFPC said that was what RIF eligible individuals should go by. Moreover, 13-130 described eligibility and procedures for applying for the VSP and it said explicitly the same as the SECAF and CSAF have been saying: if you're RIF eligible, you're eligible for the VSP. Additionally, the VSP eligibility matrix lists us as eligible while everyone in our year group has an ADSC.

So, on the one side we had one statement in a PSDM that AFPC was saying didn't apply and on the other side we had all manner of evidence and reason. As for consequences, we'd already told our bosses we wanted out. There was no downside difference and a huge upside difference between applying and not applying. Only a complete idiot would've not applied at that point.

Lawyered

Our base received an official email from Afpc with questions and answers yesterday.

-Afpc is still waiting on a memo from haf expanding adsc waivers for health professionals and rated personnel.

- A new eligibility matrix will be posted removing around 500 Airmen from eligibility (does not specify officer/enlisted).

- People with extended afscs will have a separate application window to alleviate the initial denials

Timing on all this is still tbd

Thanks for posting. Somebody has to make up for the inadequacy of AFPCs communication. If only they had a website or something...

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

so the new 14-08 refers you to 13-65 which still says UPT ADSC not waived....wtf

and those of us that already got denials for UPT ADSC will have to reapply? Seems like the early adopters lose out since I would imagine IF they start approving pilots the guys that applied earlier would get it first (yeah yeah i know its not first come first serve, but let's be real) and those of us that applied in hour 1 that were denied will have new application dates of nowish.

I heard from my chain of command today that people denied due to ADSC will be able to resubmit their original application; much like adding a new document to an existing application without having to route it through Sq and Wg Commanders. You'd think it would also have the original time stamp on it. Of course, this is assuming AFPC has been granted the waiver authority and I don't have an email chain originating from AFPC, so I'm just passing along the rumor at this point. In the absence of actual guidance, it's the best we can do. (That should be our new third core value.)

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

What global threat are we facing and how are our efforts decreasing this threat? No five nations could pose a credible existential threat to our nation. Terrorism isn't going away either way and we should be taking steps to prevent it, but we've gone off the rails in proportionality. 100 times as many Americans have died in car accidents as terror attacks over the last 15 years. Spending $100B in Afghanistan over the next ten years might lead to a stable country, but Americans would be better off if that money were spent to make North America energy independent or to cure cancer. China might be rising, but they have a billion people poor people and rampant corruption. Russia clings to power as the old Soviet block is racing to join the Eurozone.

The 21st century demands a small agile military; not the big hollow one they're creating.

Chizzzz,

I hear they can't afford to lose any enlisted or tac airlift pilots.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Man I really don't know where you stand on this issue Letters V, S, & P. Everyone has different experiences, but I strongly disagree with you. The Air Force pays me very well to do something that I cannot do anywhere else. The best officers that I know are not leaving the Air Force. Some have gone to the Guard and the Reserve, but are still contributing there, and many are still on AD. Here we go again with this sad footnote of failure crap; "they'll continue their mediocrity with greater consequences," "who will they be able to recruit" Dude, thanks for your service, now move along quietly and go find the more money that you're looking for in your next career.

We've covered this about 10 times, that Fiver guy summed it up pretty well but it bears repeating. We're not ######ed. If you come to work and do nothing but read BO.net and check your VSP status every 15 minutes then you're just making more work for the rest of us. If you did that at Delta or United they would fire you.

I could make much more money at any of several other jobs and my guess is that you could too. The only way the Air Force has been able to recruit top talent is because it offered unique intangible compensation. When they treat their people poorly, they erase those intangibles. Reducing the retirement post hoc comes to mind; as does involuntarily separating people while denying volunteers. When they do these things, they devalue being an Airman.

I wasn't saying I'm not going to work hard because I'm a petulant child. I was saying I don't have any work to do. I fly just enough to stay current (not proficient) and my ground job work is proportionate to the number of hours my squadron flies, which isn't very many. They should reduce the number of airplanes and pilots if there isn't enough money to fly them. And they definitely shouldn't deploy pilots without missions to fly.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

The Air Force doesn't pay that well. The best officers I know are all leaving the Air Force. Who do our senior leaders imagine will be the senior leaders of the future? Perhaps those left behind will rise to the challenge, but more likely they'll continue their mediocrity with greater consequences. Who will they be able to recruit? When a kid comes to you wanting to be a pilot, does anyone recommend joining the Air Force? When I was thinking about it, I asked retired guys from the '70s and '80s and they said it was the best time of their lives. I've had some good experiences to go with the bad, but I sure as hell wouldn't recommend it. There's little chance I'll be alerted at my deployed location to go fly, so I'll be checking for PSDMs to support resubmitting my application because the Air Force doesn't pay that well.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

You think the roadblock is the SecAF? Really?

Like someone else in this thread said, it would take one phone call to get this authority if AFPC actually knew how many pilots it can cut.

I think SecAF is considering it. The conversation and paperwork are trivial. Actually approving it is a significant decision given that billions of training dollars would be walking out the door. It seems that a new political appointee might not want to have that decision on her record if there's a pilot shortage in five years.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

don't worry, your time will come. I'm all for people applying....and i wish everyone got approved. It's just I don't want these people getting their hopes up since they haven't been denied yet. You probably do have less than me...but there were 2 guys at my base with under 10 months of UPT ADSC left that got the first batch of denials right along with me.

I'm an '05 11M that was in a UPT class full of '04 grads (i.e. I have a shorter ADSC than nearly everyone in my year group) and I was denied along with you.

Things might change if SecAF grants the waiver authority, but until then, you're right. Currently, I don't think AFPC or even CSAF have the statutory authority to waive UPT ADSCs.

[FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)]

Boys, let's be real... at any company, you'd never know how many of what flavor of person will get a pink slip when the company is short on operating funds unless you're management or HR. It's the clarity of our process that drives the frustration. It's not that we're ######ed up... It's that we're openly ######ed up.

I'm not reading many posts from people concerned about getting fired. It seems like people are more interested in how quickly they can get out. After more than a decade of doing more with less, increasing deployment lengths with decreasing dwell time, and the Air Force being run into the ground by incompetent leadership, we want out. I'm voting with my feet that if they want to have a war, they need to fund it and have victory conditions. And if they want to have an all-volunteer force, they need to treat people better.