BigFreddie
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Posts posted by BigFreddie
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A question for the crowd. I know this thread has gotten some good milage.
I was wondering if there were any baseops.net fans who have taken the plunge and filed the paperwork for a short barreled rifle or shotgun?
I am going to go get my stripped AR-15 lower reciever engraved with the proper markings this weekend. I think I might toss some updates on the board and show some folks the wonderful world of NFA (national firearms act of 1934) firearms.
-Pitt
I have done this for an AR and a couple HKs. I'm getting my Arsenal SLR107UR done next... PM me for more info.
BF
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Awesome info on the Glock military deals. Am I reading it right that you can just send copies of your ID/orders, etc, and have it shipped to a local FFL?
Anyone know of any other companies offering such deals?
I've seen a few others but the discounts aren't as big and not as easy to get either. S&W does one and I think Sig does as well.
You can either find the LE distributor in your area and buy off their shelves or have it shipped to your local FFL.
And thanks for the updated letter!
BF
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Anyone have an H&K or enough experience with it to offer an opinion?
I am looking at picking up either the USP Compact in .45 or the P2000 in .40.
Appreciate in insite you have.
Look at the newer guns - the HK45 and HK45C. I took a pistol class from one of the top trainers in the US - he is also one of the most sought after 1911 gunsmiths in the world. When asked about the new HK45s he said it would be his top pick in a .45 caliber handgun to take in harms way. He said the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 would be a close second.
I all reality - get your hands on them. I sold an HK USP 45 a few years ago because it was too big for my hand. Handguns need to fit right to work to their potential. This has always been a complaint of mine about Glocks - they feel horrible in the hand. I am sold on the current concept of multiple backstraps to adjust the grip to your hand.
About the 9mm vs .40 vs .45 debate... Modern bullets negate some of the advantage that the .45 had before. If I were only permitted to use FMJ or ball ammo my choice would be the .45. As I've said before, the 9mm might expand while the .45 won't get any smaller. Here is an expert's thoughts on this subject: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887 - it seems that the heaviest loads for the round perform the best...
As for the Springfield Scout - I would go with that model over the SOCOM for the reasons mentioned. It also seems that the further from the original design people go the more trouble the rifles have... Stock up on mags now (www.44mag.com) and find some ammo for it.
For the guy wanting a simple, reliable, cheap defense gun, he'd be hard pressed to beat a Glock, especially through their LE/Military program. Here are the forms I collected a while back for the program - attached at the bottom. Hard to beat a $400 NIB Glock...
BF
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It's a little tricky because some of the early Migs (17-19-21) actually use the cannons for WB purposes but for ATF and Treasury the weapon must be made "inoperable" this includes hardpoints or any station that can hang or jettison an object. On the early 19 and 21's this means you have to cut and remove half the receiver which means you actually have to cut through the side of the a/c, usually ends up as more trouble than worth and people rather find a de-mil aircraft or some other meathod as if you remove the cannon and fill it with weight, normally it doesn't distribute the weight the same way.
Sounds like a pretty neat job! It is an aviation job primarily?
I saw a MiG at an airport the other day - I guess it never occurred to me that you'd have to think about the guns and hard points on these things.
I've met the owner of Dillon Aero - how does he get away with testing miniguns on privately owned helos? I would imagine that if you had the right paperwork it wouldn't be too much of a problem.
A couple questions about the "typical" BATF agent...
1) Are they "gun guys"? Do they like guns or do most of them just see it as a job?
2) Some people portrait the BATF agent as the next coming of Hitler's Gestapo - are they really that bad?
BF
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I work for the US Treasury Department assigned to a JTTF group. For an online forum that will have to suffice for intimate details.
That works. Just wondering how much the day to day job brings you into contact with these issues.
Spooky
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From working experience... Snip...
For example - the last thing that I got asked to look into was a guy inquiring on how to buy 25mm rounds in bulk, not alot of civilian made weapons in that caliber, he did have such a weapon and was legal to own and the reason he was buying so much was so he could reload after the initial shoot. Took about a 10 minute phone call, nothing else stands out about the guy so case closed (sts).
Where do you work? I hate to call you out on that but this is important to know when you put this info out there.
I bought 4320 rounds of 5.45 ammo a few months back. I hope I didn't raise too many flags but from what I've been reading on a lot of forums that is a small amount compared to others. 5.45 is fairly unique and really all about timing - it is just so much cheaper than other ammo guys are buying it 10 or more cases at a time. Heck, for a while one company was giving you free shipping for orders over $500 so 5 cases got you free shipping so guys bought enough to get the free shipping.
I personally buy in bulk - normally 1000+ rounds - to save money or if I find a good deal. Here are my go-to ammo places:
www.aimsurplus.com - good ammo, fair prices, reasonable shipping
www.natcheszz.com - wide variety of ammo, good prices, reasonable shipping
www.copesdistributing.net - great prices, good shipping rates
www.ammunitiontogo.com - good prices and they normally have the good high-end ammo (self-defense, match, etc.)
I also think that the government has a pretty good idea of who I am... I've been employed by them for over a decade, multiple security investigations, and I have a few NFA toys as well.
25mm is rare but the rifle/cannon/whatever the hell it was probably was listed as a DD with the ATF (IIRC, anything greater than .50 [excluding muzzle loaders and shotguns] is a destructive device).
Spooky
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The MCX at Camp Lejeune sells (or possibly sold - this was current as of late 2003 when I was last there - things could have changed since) guns, in what they call the Exchange Annex. You had to be stationed at Lejeune or New River, and have an approval-to-purchase-firearms letter signed by your CO (the actual, not someone with "by direction" authority), to purchase. From what I remember, their prices were pretty good. Elmendorf's prices looked pretty good, too, when I was there this past spring...
On the topic of "What to do since the election?", I'm now thinking that if you've already got a couple guns, it's a better plan to start stocking up on ammo for what you've got, rather than buying more guns. A 500% tax on loaded ammunition and ammunition components (already an Obama proposal, IIRC) pretty much equates to "gun control", without the Second Amendment battles. An Executive Order would take care of that very quickly, with no opportunity for debate or review... and it's already rumored that he's planning to use Executive Orders to quickly "accomplish" (and I'm using that term very loosely) some key tasks early on.
I think it's gonna be a painful 4 years for us gun enthusiasts...
Cool! Glad to see another place selling guns. I've heard stories of the military when there were rod and gun clubs on all the bases and you could buy guns at deep discounts.
There is a lot swirling around out there about Obama and what he's going to do once he starts "ruling" (and I'm quoting one of his staffers from last weekend). What I've heard is that he will undo over 200 of Bush's EOs from his term. I really hope he doesn't hit the gun industry hard - while not a huge part of our economy we don't need anything else hit.
On the taxes - is that up 500% from the 11% now on guns and ammo? So if I buy a $100 worth of ammo, I now pay $111 with tax - with Obama's plan it would be $155? That would suck - especially with the cost of ammo now anyhow. Honestly, ammo prices went up as fast as gas prices but people don't NEED to shoot as much as they drive - I saw a definite decrease in those shooting at the range. I actually see small decreases in price and higher availability in ammo recently - that was before the election though. As it is now I have enough ammo to last a few years in some calibers... I've been buying pretty steady for the last couple years...
BF
ETA: www.sturmgewehr.com is a great place to find fairly rare guns. Not so many big dealers post there with their inventories but it is one of the best starting places!
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I actually feel like it's not enough. He's put my wife and I up (wouldn't let us pay rent) in his place for the last couple of months prior to our PCS. I took this as an opportunity to show off the ol'gun collection and he expressed some interest. He's shot before but never owned any for himself. Hopefully this will get him started in the right direction, and also let him know how greatful we are for his help.
Thanks again for the help, my google search turned up much of the same info but my nugget doesn't comprehend most of the legal jargon; it's probably going to be a BX purchase and their knowledge level is pretty low at times.
As far as I know the only BX in the military that sells guns is the one at Elmendorf. Hell, I was an Alaska resident with an Alaska ID that had an Alaskan address on it but they wouldn't sell to me - I needed to be stationed there.
Anyhow, here's how I would go about doing this:
1) Find a dealer at your friend's location. Search here: http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp - find a dealer and call them up. Run your plan by them. If they won't do it it could be either illegal or they aren't comfortable doing it. If it isn't illegal and they won't do it, find another dealer.
2) Search the net for good buys - here are a couple places I would look:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/795
http://www.uberarms.com/handguns-springfield.html
Order and have it shipped to the dealer you found previously.
Another suggestion - if he's not a current shooter, buy him a 9mm. Why you might ask - well, it recoils less meaning he might shoot it more. And the ammo costs less - again, he can shoot it more. But... the .45 ACP is an American classic...
BF
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AMF
Speaking of which, that's one helluva nice gift to be giving!
Cheers! M2
It's official - I'm volunteering to be AMF's friend!
I thought I replied to this but can't find it anywhere... I think you'd be best if you purchased the pistol and then had your buddy fill out the paperwork. This ensures the transaction can't be construed as a strawman purchase - as long as your buddy does the paperwork you should be good to go. Leave the pistol at the dealers, take the manual and give that as the "pre-gift" - or get a cheap holster and tell him he has to buy something to fit it...
BF
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Good point...problem solved.
Surefire X-300 with a GG&G Slic Thing QD Mount...ordered this evening.
Jeez, I hope they let us start flying again...this could be disasterous!
The X-300 is pretty much the best light out there now - in my opinion. If you're looking for Surefire stuff try Calvin at www.brightflashlights.com - I got my X-300 for $175.
I'm also playing with the Surefire G2/G3/6P lights mounted in a Vltor mount - depending on the light you can have a great light set-up for about $120...
BF
PM responded to...
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When I get depressed...I buy shit. And with Obama getting elected last week and my B-course class getting put on indefinate hold due to wing cracks in the majority of our planes...I decided to build an AR-15...here's what I have coming!
Smith and Wesson Stripped Lower
Stag Lower Parts Kit
LMT SOPMOD Buttstock
TangoDown Battle Grip
Noveske N4 Basic Complete Upper
Aimpoint CompM3 Sight w/Larue Mount
A few MagPul PMAG 30 round Mags
A few thousand rounds of 5.56
Gonna be like Christmas in November...next purchase...Benelli M4.
Now that is going to be an awesome set-up. Now all you need is a light on it.
I've actually sold a gun since BHO got elected - I actually - gasp - have too many and I have one more to sell as well (who wants an AR?). Something I thought I'd never say!
BF
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Stag's a solid company with a good product, and down the road someday, assuming that a ban occurs, a lefty AR might fetch a premium in resale.
For finding mags online right now- I just bought a bunch of PMAGs from Bravo Company USA after searching around a bit. I think the only type they had left was brown with the window. Fine by me.
In reality, I don't see the new administration getting to guns anytime very soon. They'll hopefully have their hands full with two wars, a recession, and all of the social programs that have been promised. Senator Obama certainly hasn't emphasized gun laws in his campaign. Contrast that with Pres Clinton, who ran on a platform including gun control but still didn't get around to the AWB until 1994 (at which point the Republicans promptly took back Congress). They may really want to do it, but it would definitely have a political cost that would weaken their ability to push through other controversial stuff.
Buy guns and parts now, but be sure to throw a few extra CFC bucks a month into the NRA Institute for Legislative Action.
"2"
Stag is a good company. One thing to be aware of in buying a lefty AR is that you are going to create non-standard habit patterns. 99.9% of all AR are right-handed versions. If you have to use a "normal" AR you're habit patterns won't do you any good. Also you could run into parts issues - specifically the fact that only Stag sells those specific parts. I would mostly be worried about the bolt and bolt carrier - and the bolt has been known to break fairly often in ARs. For a few extra bucks you could easily get and ambi-safety and ambi-bolt release that would accomplish most of what you want. In all reality the AR isn't that bad for leftys - in a shooting class the top shooter was a lefty shooting a "normal" AR.
Define just bought - there are very, very few 30 round mags in stock - you'd find that BCM is now out of ALL 30 rounders. Gun dealers are lucky that they don't have to split their profits from this week's sales with Obama... And most places I've looked at have disclaimers for slow shipping and low availability due to the recent rush.
BF
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Would anyone care to make realistic and plausible prognostications as to what changes we could reasonably expect to see?
I ask because I wasn't planning on buying any more guns for a few years. The next one was going to be a Bushmaster AR-15, in something like 4 years. Do I need to be taking a serious look into buying that gun before January whatever? Or maybe just some "hi cap" magazines right now?
No on knows for sure what Obama and Congress will attempt to ban. The previous Assault Weapons Ban (authored by Biden) took features of rifles into account - bayonet lugs, pistol grips, flash hiders, etc. It also prohibited the sale of magazines with a capacity greater than 10. The AWB also had a sunset clause - after 10 years it went away unless it was reauthorized. Gun makers worked around the rules and introduced rifles without some of those features but retained the pistol grip and semi-auto action. And any existing rifles were grandfathered and exempted from the rules - causing them to sky-rocket in price.
So, knowing that Democrats aren't stupid and learned from the first experience I think they will go after bigger features - I think they will target semi-autos in general - from your Remington 1187 duck gun to the dreaded AR-15. I also believe what is out there will be permitted to stay on the market - I don't think the Democrats have the support for an all out ban anytime soon.
What I would buy now:
AR15s and AK47s - they are now pretty widely spread and very popular. If they aren't banned you'd be able to sell them off at a later date.
Magazines - these are disposable items - they wear out, they break, sometimes they don't work when new. They got to be stupid expensive in the last ban (Glock mags were $100 each where today they are less then $20).
Ammo - always good to have ammo on hand - bought in bulk it is much cheaper.
Rumors and rumblings I've heard - really just pure speculation - is that there are drastic tax increases on all things gun related on the horizon. I've heard a resurrection of the Assault Weapons Ban is another possibility with "strengthen" restrictions. Anything is possible so stay aware and it will never be better than today to buy guns, mags and ammo...
BF
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Offutt mandated long-sleeve shirts with a tie for all from now through March. What's next? Mandatory cardigan sweaters?
Just like the Academy... 1 Nov through 1 Mar or 1 Apr - but I try to suppress those nightmares...
BF
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Big, huge, f'in "2".
"3"
I can't even find 30 round AR mags right now - all the usual places are sold out already! Obama is quite possibly the best salesman in the firearm industry right now.
But the Democrats didn't get their super majority in Congress so that is good - now if they fail in doing what they said they are going to do then in 2 years the Republicans could possibly get back some of those seats.
BF
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Actually I bought two new "black guns" last week that I have been waiting for a while to be able to get (damn things are expensive).
I agree sales are up and I am buying all the high-cap mags I can in case of another ban.
But statements like "You could just about feel the fear of people buying in there." are a bit much in my book.
I think many people are concerned about their right to bear arms and own what they want but I don't see anyone where I live going to gun stores in "fear" that the end of the world is coming and the government is around the corner waiting to kick in the door.
Each their own I guess.
Good to see people think the 2nd Amendment is important - important enough to go out and lay down a chunk of cash...
DSG Arms has the cheapest AR mags around right now. $10 each with MagPul followers. Best price I've seen for new mags by at least a $1.
CDNN Investments normally has a pretty big selection at reasonable prices too.
Luckily I've been buying guns and ammo since 2000 - I'm fairly well stocked up and even selling a few ARs. I've finally decided to go with quality over quantity.
BF
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Well, if its for the good of allowing everyone to help me critique her form; then I guess it oughta be an easy sell.
"But huni, if I take the pictures; I can help you debrief the range time afterwards. Plus, if you wear a bikini, it will just keep extra clothes out of the way of the analysis."
If I'm still alive and she still went; I'll get some pictures.
Anyway, big thanks to everyone for their advice, I appreciate it.
I think we're heading to the range Friday once we get all the other "re-aquaintances" out of the way following the deployment. I'll let ya know how it goes.I honestly think it might be best to let someone else teach the wife... Some husbands and wives don't like being critiqued by their spouse - just make sure this isn't a problem with your relationship.
I also agree start off small and work your way up. I've bought a couple small guns for the wife and she is more intimidated by the sound than the recoil.
BF
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Hehe, I guess I am a lemming because fears that gun rights would be threatened and drive prices through the roof are the reason I bought mine now. I was always going to buy it, but I bought it while still over here in Okinawa because I wanted to get it before the election.
It was just another excuse for me. I'll probably pick up an extra 10 mags for my AR - great place selling them for $10 each...
BF
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Sounds like you're making a good case for .45 ACP!
I've not been following this thread too closely; hope this link isn't a repeat. Helped convince me that .45 ACP is the way to go for a semi-auto CCW. For a revolver, .357 MAG all the way IMHO.
Also, thanks for all the great info so far fellas...this has turned out to be quite an informative thread, for me at least.
Not exactly my intent but that is really what happened! I really think that today the .45ACP would be a better CCW piece because there are new and improved pistols out there. If you haven't shot an HK45C don't unless you have about $900 to buy one with! The 10mm is really a dying round as much as I hate to say it. The major ammo manufacturers aren't loading their newest self-defense bullets in ammo even though the 10mm and .40 SW use the exact same bullet. Top that off with the fact that there are only a handful of guns currently being manufactured that shoot the 10mm. The smart man now would go the .45ACP route. I like my 10mm as a hunting back-up gun - my cousin has actually taken mule deer with his in Wyoming so it will take down an animal.
As to the 9mm vs .45 debate. Always remember the .45 will never get smaller and the 9mm will sometimes not get any bigger! I like the 9mm because the newer self defense rounds make it much closer in effectiveness to the .45 than ever. But, that's my opinion and M2 stated his opinion and I have only recently moved away from that myself. If I was face with only using hardball ammo I would definitely prefer the .45ACP.
Here's some more fuel for the fire:
When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr:
As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .
Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.
Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)
-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.
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Basically all the standard service calibers work when fed good quality ammunition. The platform picked tends to dictate the caliber. For example, Glocks and Sigs tend to run best in 9 mm; the S&W M&P is the first .40 S&W pistol that seems to offer an ideal ergonomic and shooter friendly package; while a properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. For folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with a S&W .45 ACP M&P, HK45, S&W 4566, or possibly the SA .45 ACP XD.
Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to using it for duty. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.
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The keys are:
-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.
The above quoted material is from Dr. Gary Roberts - one of the top experts in this field... Original post located here - http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
BF
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Good pistol. It's unfortunate that 10mm never caught on like was intended. I personally like the round.
But the .40 Short and Weak is still out there! The 10mm Glock was the second pistol I owned - the first being a .22LR! The 10mm is a great round hampered but its "greatness". The FBI adopted it after a shoot out in Miami where their agents got hits on guys with their .38s but didn't incapacitate them. The bad guys, in turn, killed the FBI agents. So the FBI over reacted and adopted the 10mm for a couple years. They quickly found out that females and the metrosexual male agents couldn't handle the recoil. The answer was to download the rounds and therefore the extra length of the case was not needed - voila .40 Smith & Wesson.
That being said, I really love the 10mm Auto. The Glock packs a ton of power into a handgun. Downsides to it are cost and availability of ammo. It is expensive and hard to find - and when you find it the ammo is essentially loaded to upper level .40 Smith & Wesson rounds. There are a couple companies out there (Buffalo Bore and CorBon) that are loading full fledged 10mm Auto.
If you don't have a 10mm Glock yet I would suggest shooting one first. I would also look around for ammo and see what it costs - it might surprise you. It would be much cheaper and easier to shoot .40S&W or even .45 ACP than 10mm. But, then again, you wouldn't have the pure horsepower a 10mm affords you!
BF
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BF
Yep, that's true; but HydraShoks are still a damn decent SD/HD round! The 230 grain has a proven track record in the .45, and where there may be some better rounds out there, I stick with what I know works in my pistols!
I also have some Aguila 117gr "High Power" Fragmenting Hollow Points that I want to try out; but I wouldn't trust them for SD/HD as I think they are more a novelty round and not as reliable as other HPs. Plus, Centurian Ordnance, the company that imports them into the States, is literally less than a mile away from my house.
That said, I think the next SD/HD rounds I am going to try are the Speer Gold Dots. Have heard good things about them, and would like to see how they do. If you have any other suggestions, I am always open to hear them.
Cheers! M2
Here's a list in common calibers:
9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355)
.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
From Dr. Gary Roberts - his job is to test ammo and body armor and the like. Found in this thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887 That thread will explain everything you need to know plus has some great pictures of ammo after being shot through gelatin and clothes and windshields... Pretty neat job really!
ETA:
-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.BF
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Of all the options for "scary black", what is the caliber that is most expensive/cheapest? I searched, and spent a couple hours reading all 15 pages of this, but couldn't find that specific answer. There are a couple of hints to it, but no definitive answer.
5.45x39mm - the Russian answer to the 5.56x45mm. A wicked looking little round too. It can be had for about $120/1080 in a sealed spam can. the only downside is that it is corrosive. Sounds bad but I clean my guns with boiling water then lube them as normal. Apparently the water takes the corrosive salts away and being as hot as it is the water basically evaporates very quickly. The corrosive salts come from the primer and is fairly common in Russian ammo so that it will last forever in storage. In the AK74 with its compensator/flash enhancer it feels like you're shooting a .22!
7.62x39mm - Great round with a lot of history. As M2 mentioned it is currently on sale running $150/1000. The normal price is right around $180 to $200/1000. I can vaguely remember the day when it was $75/1000 - those were the days! Most of this is commercial stuff from the former eastern block so it isn't typically corrosive. There is some Yugoslavian stuff out there for sale that is corrosive and the bullet is supposedly one of the best for self defense.
9mm - you can get ARs in this round for fairly cheap money. About the best deal out there is for Winchester white box at Walmart. Basically $20/100 or $200/1000. Use to be $13/100! This is really for plinking and having a cheap shooting session.
.223/5.56mm - it is cool to use .223 in a gun chambered for 5.56. It is potentially dangerous to use 5.56 in a .223 chambered gun. The advantage of the 5.56 loads over .223 is higher velocities and therefore you're running the gun at higher pressures. The reason to lean towards 5.56 loads is that a lot of the wounding mechanism of the 5.56 is derived from fragmentation due to velocity. Combine a shorter barreled rifle shooting .223 pressure loads and the relative effective range of the system drops to about 100 yards. For us using the gun in self defense if you're shooting someone further away than your backyard, you're probably going to be in a lot of trouble... You can get Wolf steel cased ammo of dubious quality that may or may not run your gun and spit tons of crap into the receiver will run you about $220/1000. the better brassed cased stuff is running about $350/1000.
7.62x51mm or .308 Winchester - really great round. But the most expensive stuff for black rifles. I remember buying South African battle packs of 140 rounds a year and half ago for $25/140 now goes for $60+/140. Big reason is the fact that the UN wants countries to destroy their old stockpiles of ammo to "save the world" from guns and arms trafficking. Also, fewer and fewer countries have 7.62x51mm as their main battle rifle which means there is no source for surplus, i.e. cheap but quality ammo. Some other current ammo out there is Lithuanian at $350/1000.
When buying ammo online check this site: www.gun-deals.com/ammo.php
If you want to see what ammo to buy for self defense check this: www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
And M2 - you will find that there is much better ammo out there now than the Hydra-Shoks.
BF
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There are people here who know way more than me so I'm not going to rank manufacturers. I have two Bushmasters though, both have been excellent. A Varminter that is a blast and an M4 for when the Russians come (as our governer pointed out, we can see Russia from here). Have a number of friends that have them, uniformly good reviews. I'd recommend Bushmaster to anyone.
I have a bud with a couple Amalites, an AR10 and AR15. He had some problems with the 10 (extraction, incredibly bad groups). But he sent it back and they essentially replaced the entire thing with no harassment. I guess they had some manufacturing defect for a while there that is supposed to be fixed. At least they had good customer service. Damned expensive though.
Here is an excellent source of info on the AR15. This table and associated explanations will help you make a decision on an AR...
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
As you can see the Bushmaster is a good gun (BTW did you see pictures of the Bushmasters the Russians captured in Georgia?) but there are some others with more desirable features. Of concern to me when I see a Bushmaster gun is how the gas key is staked (so that the screws don't back out while firing) and the commercial receiver extension (just need to buy the right stock). They also have an issue with their front sight being slightly too short for easy use with a rear back-up iron sight - their fix is to have a longer front sight post while other companies use a taller sight housing.
BF
I haven't seen a Vepr in a while - what is the big draw to that particular type?
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I don't have any rails on my AKs, that's just my preference but if I were to put any on, siderails would be the way I'd go. I am not big into hanging a lot of stuff off of my rifles (shotguns are a different story), so my AKs are near stock. About all I've done was swap some sights out on my Yugo, and outside of that besides cycling ammo through them, the only thing I've really done was bought accessories (slings, bayonets, grenade launchers, etc).
Cheers! M2
AKs are easy to customize. In my opinion if you are shooting something that is considered a self defense gun you should probably have something other than the freebie sling that is typically included, some form of light, and if money allows a red dot sight (EoTech, Aimpoint). I have an AK that has a Vltor stock extension with a MagPul MOE stock. I added an Ultimak rail where the upper handguard/gas tube was and then set a Surefire G2L in Vltor offset mount. When I have enough money I plan on getting an Aimpoint Micro as well. I am using a Viking Tactical sling to carry it all. Unfortunately when you start to customize an AK the cost of the add-ons can quickly exceed the money you spent on the gun.
As for mounting sights on the AK - the side rail method is the preferred Ruskie way. The only problem comes when you try to use the optics - they are typically very high and don't afford a good cheek weld. Also, Ruskie optics are pretty big and bulky for what you get. If you want a decent optic their Kobra series is pretty nice. I would suggest not mounting any optics you are serious about using to the top cover - it is just too loose to expect decent accuracy from it. I am using the gas tube replacement rail - I think it is pretty good but it makes cleaning the gas tube difficult. This isn't too big of a factor if you aren't shooting corrosive ammo.
Things that the AK really benefits from changing are the sights and safety. The stock sights are not great - mostly to do with the short sight radius and relatively small size. You can simply take a file and open up the rear notch - that is the cheapest way to go. The safety is hard to manipulate and still have your hand on the grip. If you get a Blackjack SWIFT lever or one from Krebs it makes safety manipulation a lot easier.
And if I was going to buy one AK and that is the only one I would ever have I would buy an Arsenal SLR107FR right now. Built in a former commie factory in Bulgaria as a neutered gun and then shipped to the US where Bulgarian technicians (or so they say) de-ban the rifle. It has a side rail plus a side folding stock that feels like a fixed stock when opened. They had a small run where the front sight base was canted but seemed to have fixed that issue - and if it has that issue they will repair it under warranty. Plus it seems all Arsenal guns appreciate in value so if you wanted to sell it off you could more than likely recoup the full cost and possibly make a couple bucks.
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Obama/Pelosi/Reid will target guns eventually - I just don't think it will be on their calendar of to do items in CY 09 - they have bigger fish to fry and have made those their top priority. But make no doubt about it - Democrats don't like people having guns - especially the evil black ones.
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In regards to the TDY guy who lives in CA... CA has the most restrictive gun laws out their and some of the biggest gun lovers as well so you get weird things like monster man grips and magazine locks. They also introduced a weird law if you want to ship a rifle from another state you must have your business/FFL registered with the state of CA before you ship them to the state. But, take me for instance - I maintain residency in Alaska - I was born and raised there and want to return when I'm done in the AF. If I was not in the military I couldn't buy guns in another state other than where I'm a resident unless I was a licensed dealer. Since we're all in the AF we get to be residents of the state were are STATIONED in. Since I'm in Texas now I'm considered a Texas resident when filling out my ATF 4473. And one of the questions on that, actually the first question, is "are you buying this gun for yourself" and you must answer YES and not just Y. In the case we have here, the original owner bought the rifle for himself and was intending to keep it until his buddy offered to buy it. If he is stationed in CA and tries to take it back there he could get into some real big time trouble. Since you are selling it to him direct, there is no FFL to give you a sanity check and I would bet that CA would ask questions why you sold the thing to him in the first place. It would really depend on where he was stationed currently, not where he is TDY or where he is from.
And for those who are PCS'd to CA here is some info. The Soldier's and Sailor's Civil Relief Act challenged the gun laws in CA. Since military members can't tell the service to shove it when it comes to getting reassigned to gun unfriendly places, there are certain ways to legally circumvent some state laws. If you are going to CA you can get what amounts to a license from here:
Department of Justice
Firearms Licensing & Permits Unit - MAWP
PO Box 820200
Sacramento, CA 94203-0200
(916) 227-3273
What I heard is that if you are stationed in CA you can get a license to bring your evil black rifles into the state. You pay something like $100 or $200 a year for the license and when you arrive you have a list of your firearms. Those are the only banned rifles you can have - you can't expand your collection while you're there or change it if you PCS back a couple assignments later. This info is all a couple years old so if you want to work with it I would call and get all the details before unknowingly breaking any CA state laws.
And I'm spent....
BF
Gun Talk
in Squadron Bar
Posted
I also suggest the trust route. That along with a corporation seem to allow greater leeway in having multiple users of the NFA items. As already suggested, it is advisable to get a lawyer involved in this process as well - maybe base legal can help create a trust. An alternative is Quicken Willmaker that also has a section on creating trusts. If you do create a corporation to handle this matter, make sure you know what has to occur every year to keep the corporation in existence - I know these laws vary by state and some require an annual fee - forget to pay the fee now you have NFA toys without a viable corporation. With a trust or corporation you get to skip the hassle with getting a sheriff to sign off or have your fingerprints taken. If your local LEO is alright with NFA toys the best bet is to go through them.
Another thing to think about - PCSing... If you are active duty you can count on moving every so often, usually on short notice and with little say in where you go. What happens if you PCS to an NFA unfriendly area - say California? What are you going to do with the NFA items then? I know one example where a person had SBRs and suppressors. The PCS destination permits SBRs but not suppressors - now what do you do with the suppressors? In this case the person put them in a locked gun case and moved them to a third location to be stored by family in a legal location. Technically, the family members don't have access to them since they are locked and they don't have the key.
AR15.com has pretty good discussion on this process plus a detailed thread discussing the timeline of sending and then receiving paperwork back from the ATF.
BF