ViperStud

Doubtful. First, it would have to drop to 6 years. At the 9 year point (UPT+7) I knew the board results. I know it's a little later now but who knows how long that will last. I doubt big blue would lop 40% off the commitment with the current pilot retention issues. Second, and the bigger issue, is one of the biggest problems with our management - they can't understand why people don't want to be like them. Who cares about being a school select? Mostly the career guys that are staying in regardless of ADSC or bonus. I know plenty of selects that are punching before school; it's not much of a carrot. I doubt many of us are too worried about promotion, particularly to Maj. I know it's happening now that people are getting passed over, but the odds are small and in the few cases I've seen there were obvious reasons why it happened. I just don't see anyone who is getting out saying "man if I only had the chance to go to school, I would bail on the reserves, guard, airlines, etc."

TT, I really thing anyone is pulling straws if they think there were any devious intentions behind offering fighter guys a bigger bonus last year. The general understanding among us 11Fs was that it took the AF managers years to realize the end result of closing all the FTU squadrons at Tyndall and Luke. It's just hard to make fighter pilots. Not because the training is harder or longer necessarily; it was just a capacity problem. POM 10 seemed like a great idea at the time but the end result is a smaller overall pipeline and fewer fighter dudes. I don't think the airlines will hit 11Ms proportionally much harder than 11Fs. I've seen a ton of fighter bros getting hired by southwest, United, delta, corporate, etc. 11Ms don't have the market cornered on flying big planes on the outside. That's why the AF is throwing money at everyone now. We've been saying this all along, but the next few years will continue to be interesting. They're gonna have to do something (probably more bonus money vice the dreaded stop-loss) to keep pilots in. It's weird, I really enjoyed my time on AD and I'm glad to still be flying fast jets in the guard. All along I thought I would stay AD. The further I get from separating though, the happier I am to have done it. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but I think the next 6-9 years could be painful for AD. Leadership has shown plenty of willingness to put cost-cutting pain on the shoulders of the troops. Cutting BAH, reducing perdiem, scaling back pensions/COLA - it all paints a kinda shitty picture. How are they going to blend potentially higher retention bonuses into that mess?

Last year I would have told tanker toad - I told you so. This year, I don't care. Prosecution rests.

Anyone have luck with the AMEX card as a technician?

Not sure I understand the question - how would you take an AGR gig if you're still committed to AD? Are you asking if it's possible to serve out your remaining ADSC as an AGR? Not sure that is possible because in order to start as an AGR, you must first separate - which you can't do with remaining ADSC. Did I read that wrong?

Well since almost all airline dudes continue in the Guard or Reserves (for 30K+ per year, plus deferred pension), the actual number you're looking for is the difference between the two pensions. Remember,69% of statistics are made up on the spot - and yours are part of that 69% I ran the numbers last year with several variables (different airlines, airframes) and it is financially beneficial to go to the airlines early rather than later. The difference is not eye-watering though. Discounting cash flows for inflation it ends up being several hundred thousand, not several million. If money is the bottom line, get out. For most of us, there are other variables that make a few hundred K only another thing to consider.

I spent 2.69 years at a UPT base. We saw shit classes drop 6/7 fighters and the strong class right after them drop 2/4 fighters. The CC tried to shuffle assignments left/right and the best AFPC would give him is to have flexibility on where the FAIP fell. 99% luck of the draw. Timing is everything, learn that lesson now. Any UPT class that looks back and thinks they killed it based on their drop is living in a dream world.

I love how a lot of dudes that punch complain about the leadership/management on AD and about how the patch or WG/CC can't process why people don't want to follow the exact path they did... Then after they punch and get another job (ie, airlines), they preach that anyone is stupid for not following the exact same path they did... Pot, meet kettle. Just sayin.

Go QC the shoe clerk regs, but it's certainly not 6 mos. I was deployed with a buddy who returned with about 19 months left and applied for retirement a year out - standard. They tried to hit him with a 365 as soon as his IDT counter ran out, even were willing to accept less than a 365 to get him back in time to retire. I think it was 30-90 days required between return and retirement. He ended up getting out of it through good leadership and the fact that his retirement request and the 365 passed in transit. I'm betting the time required back pre-sep or retirement are the same. AFPC doesn't give a shit about you having time to job-search and make a smooth transition. They care about getting the most out of dudes before they split.

I think AFPC has a program that rack-and-stacks separation requests by sep date. I no-shit had separation orders in hand a week after I applied for separation. TAPS is a limfac because some places only teach it once a month and it fills up. Remember if you are going to a full-time RC gig on AGR or orders, you carry over leave and don't have to burn it all. I did that because I was in the short hairs; in retrospect I wish I had taken more terminal and pushed back by my start date in the ANG. I was handcuffed by TAPS, had to complete that before my final out. The August class conflicted with a TDY I wanted to attend. Some bros have gotten out of TAPS, YMMV - maybe I didn't push hard enough. As soon as you are comfortable showing your cards, get TAPS done.

Not necessarily. I was a free agent, applied for a 30 Sept separation on ~10 Jul and made it happen. There were all kinds of warnings about timeline and I needed WG/CC approval but it all worked out. There is a lot of outprocessing queep, TAPS (a week of mostly fluff) and remember AFPC needs to generate separation orders. You don't just hit a button and POOF, you're separated. Upsilon, assuming your stated times are correct, you'll probably stay on station - like every case I've seen like that. Your problem will be catching a 365. If you've got a year+ left, everyone I've seen caught at least a 180 as your separation gift.

Duck, in a nutshell the reg is written terribly. One note on the table says that no advanced flying training can extend a pilot past their initial commitment. Another note says requal trainees don't incur an ADSC while initial quals do. There is no discussion about particular situations and a lot of gray area. What if you're going to get your initial qual in a new jet, can that make your commitment to past 10? Did flying it in UPT (never technically qualified in it) make going to PIT a "requal" of sorts? There is no discussion of which guidance takes precedence. Along with several others, I successfully erased a PIT commitment and reset my ADSC back to my UPT+10 date. I'm betting that some AFPC weenie looked and saw that I had T-38 time and figured it must have counted as a qualification. They can see my flying time, but not my FEF. Even if they could see our FEFs, I doubt said weenie looking at the case has any idea the difference between flying something as a student and actually being qualified in it. "Well, he's flown it before so this must be a requal." Maybe I got lucky and my case landed on a newbie's desk; maybe that's their policy - who knows. We all got out so at this point it's moot.

Interesting. When I was wanting to keep options as open as possible based on the notes above, MPF told me that not signing the form would put the assignment in jeopardy. According to the reg now, you get the ADSC anyway so the form 63 is irrelevant beyond giving them an ironclad document with your sig - a warm fuzzy, if you will. I signed and then it ended up being for nothing anyway as I had AFPC nix the commitment based on the same notes (good communication, dudes). It's dirty that they aren't counting the T-6/37 as the same, but it's one of those situations where the intent and explicit wording of a reg don't jive. I don't expect an SrA to get that, but I would hope if you push enough that you'd be successful.

Nobody can put a gun to your head to extend your ADSC, that's why they threaten the great unknown if you don't sign the extension before you go to the training. If they miss it and try to make you to sign something after the fact, there is not enough rank on base to force you to do it. As always, pick and choose your battles. If you're committed to separating at that point, who cares if you piss off a CC?

Win. JD is the kind of guy you always hope makes general.

Funny-ish side story: when I started the separation process, local MPF chick told me I would probably not be able to separate so quickly because AETC IP tours are 3-yr controlled tours. I was pretty aggressive in telling her how wrong she was, but she stuck to her story about how that means you can't leave until the controlled tour is over. Fortunately, the locals never get involved in your separation. It's all between you and big AFPC. Separating was actually the easiest admin process I have ever gone through. I had sep orders within a week of hitting the submit button.

We still went 3/3 getting ADSCs curtailed in the T-38 less than a year ago. Option 4: take the assignment and when at said white jet base, call the AFPC ADSC office and have them get rid of it. Sure, it's ball walking and the possibility remains that it could be a fight, but it keeps you from having to show cards now and give management a reason to pull the assignment. I had only flown he Viper before, so it was the first time I was "qualified" in the 38 as well, still a clean kill to them at the time. Maybe they really are queening out over the T-37 vs T-6 thing. F that.

He had just applied for retirement at 1-year out and while it was "in the mail" they dropped the short-notice (slightly less than) 365 on him. It took about a month of fighting with the threat of still going looming over his head, but he got out of it with a retirement date set. Close call. The lesson I learned was that regardless of those that say "no one is looking at that stuff" to try and screw us, someone actually is looking at it. Maybe a functional, maybe some other AFPC cronie - who knows. I've seen too many get hit with at least 6-monthers on their way out the door.

BCan, be careful of the threat of a second 365. Not sure what dwell time people require after a 365, but if it's the same 180 days as for other deployments you might get screwed. My buddy got back from a deployment with about 18 months left. They tried to stick him with a 365 immediately after his dwell time was filled, would have taken him past retirement but then they were willing to accept slightly <365. He got saved by having already applied to retire. That and good leadership. Good luck.

As critical as we can all be, give credit where it's due. Stopping Post's rise up the chain is a win for all the rank and file. At least they got it right.

Nope. I did the same thing, which is why I wear a Guard patch now. Some good sport-bitching was going on here and he busts in the door and calls a bunch of pilots whiny bitches from his pulpit, citing vast deployment experience with other services and how we are the biggest Sallies he's ever met. I taught UPT for a few years and there was one thing in common with every single SIE - their place/rank in the class. Hard-charging and bright dudes tend to worry less about their future and try to make it happen, thinking that one of them will punch (chicks get a freebie if preggo) when the time comes. Newsflash, people are not here just to whine. I care a lot about the AF, especially because I continue to serve full-time. I got the assignments I wanted, loved flying/traveling and met some great bros. I wanted to find a reason to convince myself to stay - it just wasn't there. We see big problems ahead in our particular area of expertise and we discuss (aka pontificate, sport bitch, throw spears). I wouldn't frequent this board if I didn't care. If you can't fence into the conversation other than to call a bunch of people, all who know the ups/downs of operational flying better than you, a group of whiners - then go surf the Chive. We are here because we are like-minded individuals that give a shit. Leave the talking to adults.

Dude I pointed out some miscalculations by management that have led to retention probs and offered an argument as to where they misstepped. I never called out non-flyers. I simply said that leadership is not doing enough to keep those of us with lots of options to stay in. You called us a bunch of whiners. GFY. I don't care how or why, but you didn't complete training and now have flight suit envy like countless other light switch dicked people in the AF.

The AF is a comfortable place for those mediocre types that don't have the skills or work ethic to succeed in truly competitive workplaces - you know, the types that punch out of difficult training. Those (you) are not the one with the options I was talking about on the outside. Enjoy your time-based promotions and keep scoffing those who finished what you couldn't. You fit right in.

Wake up, bro. It's not just about money, it's about QOL, working for an organization you're proud of and (yes) compensation. QOL - I serve in the RC doing the same job as on AD. I also have a stable location near family, leadership that ensures 12-hour days are not standard, a wife able to pursue a career without the threat of moving and control over when/where/if I deploy. The AD needs to compete with (or compensate for lack thereof) this option. I serve for the same big picture company, but there are two distinct differences. First, leadership is better. Some of it trickles down to the ANG but that if it gets way worse (similar to AD) that brings me to point number two: options. On the bonus in AD I'm screwed; here I have options. Money: like it or not we are not all equal. Even moreso, Some younger pups are far more productive that the below average dude that is 5 years older - which is why the Sec Def is looking into some changes. The business world is not handcuffed by time-in-grade and compensation limits, which provides a situation with more open competition for money, leadership and promotion than we currently have. My BIL is SF (same age too) and we got to talking about this subject. He basically admitted that he only common jobs on the outside that make the same money right away for him would involve personal security in the Middle East, minus the pension plan of AD with more time away. Sorry, but I have more options. People can bitch all they want about aircrew (or legal, docs entering late, and eventually cyber) making more, but the AF needs to compensate for the fact that I have more options on the outside. In my case, the bonus (as big as it is) was not enough. A lot of people agree with me - I dont think it has influenced anyone to stay that wasn't already doing so. The SF dude doesn't need a bonus because his options aren't the same. Life isn't fair, it's real. If you want options, develop a skillset or experience that opens them up for you. Don't just sit back and bitch about others that have the work ethic to set themselves up in a better place.

I doubt it will happen. The shortage is absorbed by shorting staff positions. The porch is very blunt about it and it is the right way to handle the problem. Ultimately we will be cutting deep on staff positions and we will end up with 11Ms filling positions where we really want CAF expertise, but mother Air Force will still pay lip service to the fact that it's business as usual. Who knows though, the cracks are already starting to show. The fact that there have been substantial changes to the bonus twice now in a matter of a few years shows that management is starting to sniff a problem.