Swanee
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Posts posted by Swanee
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Saw one here at Oceana while sitting in marshal a couple of weeks ago. Cool airplane. Never thought I'd actually see one turning/flying.
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I'm sure there is more to this story. Circa 1999, Corpus Christi lost an instructor whose seatbelt had been unlatched during the control check. The buckle was susceptible to this and there were numerous Read and Initials (FCIFs) covering this problem.
While unaware of his unlatched seatbelt, the doomed IP watched/instructed as the student departed the field, entered the working area, did checklists and clearing turns and prepared for the first maneuver...spin recovery. T-34 spin recovery was full opposite rudder, stick slightly forward of neutral. This student put the stick to the forward stop and as the aircraft exited the spin, the negative Gs literally launched the IP through the plexiglass canopy.
He opened his parachute appropriately, but unfortunately, then released the buckles too early and ended up falling an estimated 300 feet to the water. They believe that he thought he was much lower and was doing the procedure properly.
Anyway back to this mishap. You never know when something unexpected will happen and your seatbelt will make all the difference. Wear it, check it and double check it. It is not the routine things that kill you, it is the surprise things that take you down.
They changed the procedure from release ~10ft above the water to release when your feet hit the water because of this incident. They also added a mod to the buckle to ensure the stick wouldn't touch it. When I flew the T-34 a couples years ago it was still part of the NATOPs checklist to ensure the stick couldn't undo the buckle during a wipeout.
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I'm a Second Lieutenant in the Marine Corps and was recently informed that I will be attending IFS in Pueblo, CO followed by some school in San Antonio. Does anyone know what this process is like? Have there been many Marines that have came through this pipeline in the past? I understand what IFS is, but what is the curriculum in San Antonio geared towards?
Any information on this topic would be very helpful. Thanks!
You're one of the first guys in that pipeline as far as Marine types go. It's owned by the CO of MATSG-22 in Corpus Christi. The monitors did a road show and stopped by Kingsville. They gave us a presentation on the latest and greatest MOS in the Marine aviation world- your UAV MOS. They threw a bunch of buzzwords as us while our eyes glazed over. At the end of their spiel they asked if anyone was interested in leaving the jet world and lat moving to UAVs. Crickets... FWIW I remember him saying something about training at Randolph and Ft Huachuca.
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Cool show. Some of it seemed a little over dramaticized but that makes good TV I guess. But it is definitely cool to see how that side operates.
Quick question: one of the dudes was bitching about a 4 month deployment. 4 months? Is that a standard deployment for AF AD units? Seems short compared to the 6-10 that we (Marines) are doing, the 7/7/7 that the Navy is doing and the effing huge debacle that the Army does with their whole 12+ month shit sandwiches.
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The CV-22 community has neither the resources, the time, the inclination, or the demeanor to play stepping stone for you. Its a serious airplane flown by serious people. Go elsewhere.
It's still the plopter- and that's pretty effing silly.
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I won't support No Easy Day or Zero Dark Thirty. There are 9 people serving hard time in Pakistani prisons because of classified information leaked in said book. You can find out more about that from the SIPR JPRA site- there isn't much, but it's there.
Also important to note: "Mark Owen" is no longer welcome in the SEAL community. Seems as those guys see it that he sold out 9 people for book and movie royalties.
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as the Corps was draconian on it's policy of any untility uniform worn off base.
It still is.
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Why is fixed wing CAS required for the MAGTF concept to work? What is the key capability that the F-35B would provide that the Zulu Cobra can not provide?
Legs (Boat has to be closer to the beach), speed (can't escort/keep up with an Osprey), loiter time, carries different weapons, can't fly high, exposed to threats (small arms, shoulder fired SAMs, etc...) that don't exist when doing a level lay down from higher. No radar in a Zulu, giving it limited all weather capability.
And as far as the concept to work? It's scaleable, if we don't need it, we don't use it.
Seriously though, I ask why the AF needs fixed wing CAS? I get the F-22 and A/A stuff (we Marines don't need that) and I get the transport, tankers, bombers and AWACs type airplanes- but you guys don't have boots on the ground to support, that's Army and Marine territory- How is that not a self licking ice cream cone on the AF side? The argument could be made to let the Army fly fixed wing airplanes in combat again...
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The Army, Navy, and Marines love to sing this "Jointness" song but when it comes time to divide the money no one wants to give up their organic assets even when the capability exists elsewhere.
How about we turn this around a bit. Why does the Air Force need fixed wing CAS airplanes? You don't have boots on the ground who need it. Why should we call the AF if the Army and we Marines can supply our own?
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Where in the ACSC wall of text do you explain why they need, as you put it, "self contained fixed wing CAS?"
OBTW, brevity is cool for me since my kids taught me this Internet trick for what to do if I have a question... http://bit.ly/WFOM3R
Because no one else is going to provide it for us. You aren't going to get a det of AF dudes flying around the world to provide it for us, that is going to be much more expensive than having a det on the boat. The CSG is vastly more expensive than the ESG, and sometimes we don't need the entire CVW. Because Operational Maneuver from the Sea still exists, and some places don't allow quick access for AF types because of overflight rules. Because it's a bigger show of force when that MEU sitting off of your coast can launch a strike and hit anywhere/anyone in your country, and then land a bunch of Marines ready to go- all before anyone else could get there.
Serious question: Why don't we need it?
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But the USMC might look in the mirror once in a while and what I suspect you'll see is that you ARE a second land army and always will be, regardless of what your doctrine states.
We aren't, we were used as one but it required a lot of stuff to get us there. I don't think you truly understand what the Marine Corps brings to the fight. But I don't expect you to. We have 237 years of operating off of ships, 100 years of flying airplanes, we've been around longer than your service, we do it cheaper, and in many cases better than the others. We cut programs that we don't need- look at the EFV.
Again I ask, what should Marine TACAIR fly if we don't fly the F-35? It's too big to fail, we put all of our eggs in that basket and without it we lose the VMFA, VMA and VMAQ squadron in a few short years.
The Marine Corps will always have it's own TACAIR, and it has to be capable of effectively operating from a boat to justify the Marine Corps owning it.
But hey, I'm just a dumb Yut who is trying to explain why MY service needs this airplane. You seem to know more about being a Marine and what the Marine Corps is than I do. Tell me, where did you learn this? Where did you earn your Eagle, Globe and Anchor?
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Did you see the picture above of the OV-10 on the back of the Boxer? Why don't you guys pull those things out of the boneyard? Or better(?) yet, take Boeing up on their proposal to build some new ones. You could probably have a squadron of those things for the cost of one F-35.
OV-10X. Can't take off with a full combat load and gas to get there and back. Would need tanker support- that defeats the purpose.
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Bingo. It was mentioned earlier that a reason for V/STOL fighters is because the ESG might deploy without a carrier and the MEU needs therefore needs organic OCA/DCA capability (such as it is with 4-6 V/STOL fighters with underwhelming performance.) Does anyone really think that we would deploy a MEU into a situation with a credible threat requiring OCA/DCA capability without having a CSG riding herd on it? I'm not talking Libya-esque "well what the hell, there's an ESG on station, let's let the MEU play too" situations, I'm talking "there's enough of a threat here to turn the ESG into the second iteration of Ironbottom Sound" situations. If you truly need OCA/DCA to complete the mission, there will be a big deck carrier around; this isn't 1942, and we're not at Guadalcanal. Amphibs aren't anywhere close to expendable enough to risk otherwise.
And if you don't need OCA/DCA, there are other, cheaper options...even ones that don't require V/STOL, just STOL:
Like I said earlier, this isn't an attack on the idea of the MAGTF (go hog wild with self contained CAS as far as I'm concerned), this is an attack on the idea that the MAGTF needs to be capable of self-contained OCA/DCA operations when operating from amphibs. If you remove that requirement a whole 'nother world of options opens up, but with it you are stuck with the navy's army's air force operating stealth fighters.
Sheesh, scotch and posting on the internets mixes so well for me. At the time I think it fires me up, looking back it makes me look like every other Yut Yut who is afraid that one day Congress is going to decide to do away with my beloved Corps.
No you're right on a few levels. We won't put them in places like Camp Bastion, or even further forward deployed. They are National Treasures- I don't want to think about what would happen if we lost 8 F-35s like we lost those 8 Harriers. I seriously doubt that we will put this airplane in that same threat environment.
And that is the talk, do we as Marines really need all of the capability that the F-35 gives? Maybe, but probably not. Deep strike capabilites, those are a carry over from when we flew A-6s, off of big CVs and CVNs. We don't do that. We shouldn't do that. The Navy and you AF types should be in that business.
I do think we need some DCA/OCA ability. An ESG is cheaper than a CSG, and if we can get away from having to deploy with the Carrier Air Wing it makes sense. So we'll take it. That doesn't mean we're only sending an ESG to go big some boot up Iran/NK/China's ass, but it means that we can operate independently and have the ability to deal with some type of air threat. We can also do things like give localized air superiority so our CAS and Assault Support guys can operate for those first few days in a reduced A/A threat environment. Plus that frees up other services sorties for other missions.
The F-35 for a CAS asset is... well, time will tell. What we need is a light attack airplane. Something with longer/faster legs than a Helo but that also has loiter time. A-29, AT-6 come to mind. But how to we get those off of a small deck with a full combat load? I'm not an engineer, I don't know.
Make no mistake, the guys I've talked to who fly it tell me it's a game changer. It has some great capabilities and it has the ability to grow.
As far as MAGTF capabilities, the focus of the Marine Corps is to get away from the land army that we have become. We are getting rid of all of those big ass vehicles that we've been riding around in in Iraq and AFG. We want to be a 911 force, first strike and boots on the ground in a matter of hours from getting the call. We fight long enough to get everyone else's logistical shit together so you guys can come with the Army and roll though the asshole. That's the idea at least. We'll see what happens.
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From what I've gathered, the Marines don't really need an LO fighter, what they really need is a new STOVL fighter to operate off their mini carriers. It just so happens the only option for the foreseeable future is the F-35B.
Although I'd have to agree with Danny Noonin, do we need to take another look at what we expect the MAGTF to be capable of on their own?
There are many in my world that agree to the first.
As to the second- the Marine Corps isn't going away from the MAGTF idea. It is what makes us who we are, it's how we fight. If you can get a battalion(+) of Army dudes with all of their shit they need to fight for 15 days and have their air support with them ready to go anywhere in the world in a matter of hours you can talk about changing Marine Corps doctrine.
We as a service have a very specific purpose, (one that has been bastardized as a second land army in the last 10 years, but we're getting away from that) and we know what that purpose is.
Maybe that effort of yours should be spent figuring out Air Force doctrine; it seems you guys have an identity crisis going on and can't figure out where/how you want to fit in.
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Choppers.
Doctrinally that is a problem. Helos alone can't provide the 6 functions of Marine Air. Nor can they fill the fairly large gap that losing organic fixed wing assets leaves. The MEU couldn't do what it did in Libya with only some HMLA types.
We Marines are frugal types, if we don't need it we'd rather spend the money elsewhere on shit we do need.
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I completely understand the need for organic airpower in a MEU. But do they really need the F-35? I just don't see a MEU counting on organic airpower for 5th gen air superiority and deep strike against double digit IADs.
What else are we going to use? Are there any other jets out there capable of taking off and landing from an LHD/LPD/LSD? Our Harriers aren't exactly low time airframes. Our Hornets aren't any better.
We needed this stuff years ago. We have cadre'd squadrons because we don't have enough airplanes to go around. We can't wait for another airplane to be developed.
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But if they are buying the C model anyways, why the need for special amphibious operations? Can the amphibious ships get in closer to where the traditional MAGTF guys are going to be operating than a normal full up carrier?
It's all about having fixed wing air assets organic to the MEU. We don't deploy entire squadrons of Harriers- instead 4-6 are attached to the HMM (Phrog) or VMM (Osprey) squadron, along with some Cobras and Hueys.
Because the ESG doesn't go out with the CSG those Harriers and now F-35s are it. We put the old APG-65s into the Harrier to give them some DCA and OCA capability as well as improve their mud moving abilities/give them all weather attack ability.
That is the cool thing about a MEU- you get a complete fighting unit with air, ground and logistic support anywhere in the world for 15+ days before they need to be resupplied. Without a VSTOL capable fixed wing jet you don't get that.
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I don't think it matters much, you don't see much more than someone's nugget and shoulders when they are in the water.
This is why flight deck crews wear float coats and cranials and why our helmets are taped up with reflective tape.
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I'd also imagine that butsecks is probably not.
Meh- it all depends on whether you're the pitcher or the catcher...
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Also, understand that if you get T-38s out of whiting, you may be behind when you start 38s at Vance. In most cases, you will not have flown for several months while your air force counterparts would have just finished their last T-6 flight when you join them. They have also done double the formation flights (a significant portion of the 38 syllabus) you had done at Whiting (unless the Whiting syllabus changed,) and have been flying under air force rules for six months. Can you catch up? Absolutely. Several Whiting guys end up at the top of their class at Vance. Just realize it is an extra hurdle for many.
Make no mistake- VT-3 is an AF squadron at a Navy base.
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I argue that aviation is inherently safe- but unforgiving. What we do isn't any more dangerous than getting in a car, if we do it right. People die in car races- but the desire for some to climb into a high performance machine and take it to the edge to see who is better is greater than their fear of dying while they do it. The same can be said about those of us who strap airplanes to our backs and take to the skies.
It is not the job of the Government to rise us and save ourselves from ourselves.
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Marines think (relative term) anyone who isn't a Marine are pussies...who really gives a ###### what Marines think?
Not true. But anyone who wants to be in a gun squadron for a career but doesn't want to go to war is. We are paid to kill people and break things. If you don't want to go do that when our civilian leadership decides that some killin' and breakin' is in order then you need to leave the gun club (or at least go find a non deployable job)- combat vet or not.
This isn't to say I don't respect a guy who says," I've done my time, I'm out." Indeed I do respect them much, and if they decide they don't want to go on that's perfectly fine.
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This is not to debate the merits and/or lack of merits, of a possible war with Iran. If we get drawn into another war this fall, with Afghanistan still ongoing, is it worth it to you to keep pushing toward the 20 year mark in your career, or would you pull chalks?
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Don't ever ask why Marines think that the AF are a bunch of pussies.
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The long post above was spot on! For those beginning the process, read and heed!
For the IFS naysayers, want to tell me why CNATRA was here for the last two days....... Guess why the Navy's "screening" program has been canx? It doesn't screen or train anyone to the standards of the next level. Whatever those might be in the Navy.
Navy basically has had to sh*t a lot of money to keep the existing program (FBO's) running from other funds until a replacement is in place. Came about recently, so the current system will be probably operational through FY 2013, then, guess what, a real IFS program has been directed to be in place.
Smokey
The Navy/Marine IFS Program isn't worth much. It was originally designed to reduce DORs- yet 3 of the guys I went to IFS with (3 years ago) ended up DORing within the first few flights in Primary. Oops.
Word on the street is that the Marine Corps is done with sending SNA's through IFS. In fact- the Marine Corps is done with sending Marines to Vance for primary also. To be honest, there were many guys who had their first flight in a T-34 and did just fine.
Doubtful that big Navy would send SNA's through AF IFS- you guys do this flying business a little bit differently that we do. Would the Navy create a program based on the AF model of IFS? That's more likely. Hell, the last above/below stud in Kingsville is going to wing in a couple of weeks. After that it's all MPTS/MIF stuff for all of the VTs.
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I liked Oblivion. Saw it in IMAX. Definitely worth the extra $$$, the sound and visuals are pretty amazing and Tom Cruise actually does a pretty decent job. Even the wifey liked it, and she isn't a scifi fan very often.