JohnClark
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Posts posted by JohnClark
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4 hours ago, O Face said:
In addition to everything @Khruangbin33 said, allow me to shed a bit of light on the ANG hiring process and maybe this will help you out as well.
First, everyone reads about current Pilot shortages and military recruiting target shortfalls and believes that it must apply across the board - it doesn’t. ANG UPT slots are very finite. We’re talking 1 or possibly 2 per year for a unit. (There’s been a few instances of more, but there’s way more examples of less). So when a unit announces a hiring board, they receive hundreds of applications for that 1 or 2 slots. Thus, the unit can be extremely selective. The next step is to whittle the applicants down to a manageable number of interviews. This is where your application is getting stuffed in the “NO” pile. Your very low AFOQT scores coupled with your age, and the fact that you’re not a known quantity make you an easy kill. Don’t feel too badly, as you have plenty of company. ANG units do not have the funding to dedicate a large amount of manpower to this pilot selection process full time. Consequently, the Squadron Commander/Chief Pilot is going to instruct those reviewing applications to only invite people with high scores, no waivers, low age, etc. to an interview. Now comes the subjective part. Units will often make exceptions for people with lower scores or require an age waiver, etc if they know them and their work ethic - ie Loadmasters, Boom Operators, Crew Chiefs, or possibly a high time Civ pilot, and so on. Unfortunately for you, you’re none of those either. So, the answer to why you’re not getting an interview or even feedback is because you’re low hanging fruit at this point. My unit will provide feedback to interviewees who were not selected, but that’s it. To give feedback to the hundreds of applicants who were not selected for interview would take an enormous amount of time that nobody has. This is not any different from the civilian world. If FedEx hasn’t called you for an interview, they certainly are not going to assign someone to sit down with you and discuss your shortcomings. They’ve already moved on and are looking for someone else to help them out.
All this to say, while you’re doing the right thing by going to meet and greets, you’re still an easy kill. So, the question is what to do about it? First, study your ass off for the AFOQT and retake it. You only get 2, so make this one count. Second, get the folks at Bogi Dope to help out with your applications. Third, absolutely go shopping around to other units as well as Active Duty and sister services too.
Lastly, if you’re dead set on staying in the NE US and have the heavy unit picked out already, Consider enlisting as Loadmaster or Boom. I realize time is not on your side, however, if you’re over 30 already, units will be looking at the age waiver possibility already, and unless you’re a unit member - who they like a lot - the chances of getting selected off the street while requiring an age waiver are extremely slim.
I hope this helps, best of luck.
Thanks for the insight. I've been trying for months now to see if I can retake the AFOQT. Just having a tough time getting it scheduled. largely due to age. For every unit I've applied and visited, I did use Bogidope's App Review. Both times my Bogidope Coach was stunned I actually didn't get an interview or at least an email with some Feedback.
One of the units, I did technically get an interview but they changed their mind the week of, two days before I was about to leave and still haven't given me feedback as to why.
I've tried active duty and other services but have had no luck. I did take the ASTB for the Navy, did OK but have been ghosted by every recruiter. I was looking into the Army and Army National Guard Flying and Coast Guard now is well.
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4 hours ago, LookieRookie said:
Get a PPL and improve your AFOQT.
How is your GPA?
GPA is 3.85 with a Master's.
Just struggling with trying to find a steady salaried job to afford a PPL.
I'm having a hard time getting anyone to let me retake the AFOQT. MEPS, ROTC Units or On Base.
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I'm trying to keep this short. I think as many may know for most of the last 2 years, it was very difficult to get visits/rushing opportunities to units due to COVID. It seems like by summer of this year, units started to soften their restrictions and begun allowing rushing opportunities. Anyway, I've been trying to rush Heavy Units largely in the Northeast. That's where I am from, plus I play hockey and love the fall/autumn. I have had two units where I had multiple visits with and turn an app but not selected for an interview. Neither unit was able to give me feed back. Both basically said they had received too many apps and can't give everyone feed back.
Now this is where I wonder what I can do better during visits. Yes my test scores are mediocre (Pilot score in the 70s and Nav in the 40s) and I don't yet have a PPL (was getting close and then recent financial set back), I'm sure both could easily be the reason why I was selected and that's fine. I'm trying to work on both.
But It does kind of bother me that after I visit a unit multiple times, they couldn't give me specific feedback? Am I asking for too much? Am I being entitled for wanting specific feedback? Also is their anything I should be doing at visits? I know there are other threads on the subject and they give common sense advice "Don't be an @sshole." "Don't be awkward" "Ask questions and listen."
I ask because when I go to visits, I try and talk to everyone from the unit. The pilots, the Navs, Boom operators, Loadmasters, HR Personal, Fuel Systems personal, maintenance, Cyber, etc. I talk to everyone. Even at the visits, the pilots and officers tell me it's awesome I talk to everyone since a lot of people only talk to pilots. Aside from military/flying, I try to relate to everyone other ways. I grew playing hockey and both units have hockey teams so I talk about that, fishing, hunting, cars, music, etc. Usually by the second or third visit, people do remember me. I also bring a bottle of Whisky as a gift for the squadron.
However, it's kind of disheartening when I don't get the interview or at least get feedback as to why. I'm over 30 and I know age is also not on my side. Should I maybe cast a wider net and start looking at other regions of the country? Would I still be a good fit?
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17 hours ago, LimaLowdown said:
They should not look down on you for getting a job and trying to survive. It may look odd on paper, but it's easily explained in an interview. Anyone that would look down on that is a douche and I would not want to fly with them (read: academy grads 😉).
My biggest worry if this will effect my chances of getting an interview.
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Currently I work for a company that does machine learning and AI. It's my first tech job right out of college and I've been hear for less than 6 months. My job has been talking about Layoffs for the last 3 months, I've been applying to other jobs like crazy while trying to rush guard units. Today my job announced layoffs. I wouldn't be surprised by the end of the week if I'm gone. The tech industry is in a real rough place. Lot's of layoffs at all levels. I know I can get a retail or fast food job quickly and keep it to pay bills. Would that be looked down though by Guard Units that I apply too/rush?
Would they see my Resume and wonder how I went from tech to flipping burgers or stocking shelves? Maybe I should go back into a blue collar job instead?
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9 minutes ago, SocialD said:
I hate that for ya man, tough times and this aviation shit is outrageously expensive. I can't speak to other units, and I've since stopped sitting on our interview boards, but we dropped our PPL requirement years ago for this very reason. We still require you to have soloed, but that's more to ensure someone has at least as some idea of what they're getting into. For us, as long as you've met the solo requirement, that's all we care about. Anything after that is cool, but doesn't mean much to me...this from a guy who interviewed with 600+ hours and a CFII. If it were me, I'd go the cheapest route to meet board requirements.
FYI, I soloed with less than 10 hours and soloed most of my students at the 10-12 hour point (mainly because of the 141 syllabus). Unless his students are flying once every other week, 30 hours to solo and 80 for a PPL is A LOT! I get that many part 61 students can have long times between flights and start/stop training often, but those numbers seem high.
Best of luck!
I'll try to see if I can solo soon. Me and my instructor just started working on stalls and pattern work. Hopefully I can solo soon.
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8 minutes ago, goodflightcowboy said:
Mind if I ask what region this is? Flight schools quoting you 80 hours on average for a PPL is predatory, in my opinion. I work at a big flight school, and if we have kids going over 55-60 hours then we start to examine what went wrong in the process. 80 hours feels extortionate, but I'm willing to admit it's closer to the national average than 40.
As for your question, I don't know that all units that are looking for flying experience are looking strictly for a PPL. A sport certificate or LSA experience certainly is a conversation starter! But I would mention that from my (limited) understanding it's going to be easier for you to transition from PPL to Sport than vice versa.
I'm in Florida. The cost of living is high down here. I think part of it too is due to lack of instructors, so it's hard to sometimes fly more than one day a week.
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After years of struggling financially, I took my first few consistent flying lessons beginning in March after being able to land a better paying job. COVID happened, the country went on lockdown and couldn't resume until recently. I started flying again and have just under 20 hours now. But my job today just announced layoffs are coming. Business has been slow due to COVID, hours for a large number of us have already been cut. I saved up a bunch of money to hopefully solo. The problem is the area I live in, the cost of living is very high. To get a PPL through a flight school it's anywhere from $12K to $18K. For a Private instructor it's around $10k to $12K. I'm flying with a private instructor right now he solos most students around 30 hours and average hours to get PPL is 65 (flight schools told me 80). His rates aren't any cheaper than a flight school either, just easier scheduling. Sadly he's the only active independent instructor in my area.
The only alternative I found is there is a Sport Pilot school that flys Cessna 162s in my area. The rental price is far cheaper than any of the 172 but the instructor fee is the same. Would it be worth it to get my Sport Pilots license and simply rent a 162 to build time? Would units view this as a good thing or do they view as simply having flight time and no PPL?
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I'm 28 years old. I've been calling pilots from various units to try and rush them. I've had several lengthy phone conversations which have been great. Being that I am 28 years old, I have been asked by every pilot if I have a fiance or am getting married and starting a family soon. I tell them no and that I have zero kids too. They are always surprised. Today for example I spoke with a pilot from a guard unit on the phone and he said not verbatim.
"What does your girlfriend or fiance think you doing this?
"I'm single at the moment."
"Really?"
"What if you get engaged or married before UPT or during."
"Not planning on it."
He seemed very surprised said something a long the lines of most people or at least engaged by my age (which is true. I'd say a good 75-90% are). But he seemed surprised in a disappointed way.
Many other pilots have also asked about kids and if I plan to have any soon, which I say no. But most sound disappointed when I say no or not interested. I have zero interested in ever having kids and marriage is up in the air still. I only bring it up when asked. I've been told most Guard units have a strong family environment, but I figured most would sound relieved. A few of the pilots when I told them I wasn't planning on a marriage or a kid soon or during UPT told me something a long the lines of "You never know." Which is true but at this point in my life my mind is made up.
Does this seem strange to units?
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I've been told by a few enlisted vets I know that they have never met a fighter pilot that wasn't a big drinker and all teetotalers end up in Heavies. If I apply to a guard unit and during the interview I tell them I don't drink would that be a deal breaker?
For the record I am not against drinking, Jeremiah Weed is my favorite Dos Gringos song, One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer by George Thorogood is one of my all time favorite songs, I love Trailer Park Boys and It's Always Sunny. I'm not super religious I don't drink more due to family issues. A large portion of both sides of my family are alcoholics and live crappy lives. I know I have tendencies addictive and prefer not go down that road.
The only other info I found on the subject is one here an old thread on here from circa 2007 or so where a young LT. wrote a long email to everyone in his unit on why drinking is bad and no one should do it (I don't believe that) and an article from another website where a guy claimed to be a "Christian fighter pilot" and how fighter pilots that are "Christian" should avoid being around drinking and naming ceremonies because their is cursing and he refused to sing any squadron songs for that reason and instead sang happy birthday... Not surprisingly the comments weren't a fan of the article.
I'm ok with hanging out in the squadron bar, listening to Dos Gringos, smoking a cigar, playing some poker, crud, etc.
Would this still be a deal breaker?
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I have to ask OP what are your AFOQT scores, PCSM score and TBAS score? Also did you do the Bogidope application prep?
I'm not trying to sound hostile or call you out. I'm just curious. I'm sure it's competitive as hell but I wonder if a guy has all 90s on the AFOQT and a PCSM score of 76+ and great TBAS he should be a top 20 select for an interview.
I haven't been able to take the AFOQT due to COVID my testing date was cancelled. But talking to my state's officer require it seems the average tester scores in the 50s to 70s on most of the sections. I'm also surprise by the amount of threads I see on here and reddit where applicants did use any of the online practice tests just used the books. I wonder if the average candidate applying half-asses it and has all 70s on their scores and doesn't get an interview, while the 20 that do have 90s across the board.
Again not accusing you just a theory.
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3 hours ago, mtn_flyer said:
I was considering retaking it this month and was told that at least two different MEPS were offering it once a week. I think some locations may not be testing but others are. I would keep looking around.
My state seems to be the weirdest state. None of the AFROTC opens offer it to civilians and MEPS only does it once a mouth and I believe they are still closed. I believe my recruiter said he has well over 100 applicants for the July AD board alone, that he is dealing with, so he's hard to get in touch with.
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I was suppose to take it back in March at MEPS but it was cancelled due to COVID-19. I see boards are still happening for AD, Guard Units and Reserve. Is there AFOQT testing still going on?
I managed to reach the testing center at an Air Force base, they told me maybe September or October they will have testing again but they aren't sure as of right now. I want to take it, I've been waiting a year at this point. I was on a waiting list from June 2019 until March 2020 to take it at MEPS.
I keep seeing Guard Boards pass me by.
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9 hours ago, BADFNZ said:
When I was applying to OTS, my recruiter asked what other positions I'd like to put on my application. My words to him were "you can just put pilot down 3 times". He responded with "well putting other positions down shows the board that you're willing to do anything to join" and my response was "I'm not joining to be a nav. If I can't be a pilot, I don't want to be in the AF." I was selected for my pilot slot a few weeks later.
Bottom line, don't put something down that you are not prepared to be doing for the next 6-9 years. You'll realize quickly that no one will look out for you but you.
I LIKE THAT! If I can't get a guard slot and do go active, that's what I am saying.
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I have questions about a mild thoracic scoliosis c-curve that I have. It formed when I was a preteen but it's never affected me in any way. I've been cleared by a doctor to play hockey, baseball, race BMX and skateboard. I have no pain. I've seen a Chiropractor who has given civilian clearance to many who enlist but she's never worked with a pilot candidate before. I've also been seen by an Army doctor and was told my curve is fine to enlist. It's under 30 degrees but in the low 20s. My Chiropractor recommends I see her and a physical therapist and we can work to reduce it (will be doing so either way). Can this effect me getting a pilot slot and not passing the flying physical?
I've been told by a few non-pilots that they are really strict about scoliosis for the flying physical because of ejections.
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20 minutes ago, the g-man said:
Anyone who tells you they would rather not be a pilot in the Air Force, but is in fact a pilot in the Air Force can go f*ck right off.
I might bitch about shit constantly, but I love flying.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think any of them were pilots. Probably non-flying officers. But hell yeah man. Every officer may fly a desk but at the end of the day only pilots still fly real aircraft!
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On 3/7/2020 at 8:18 PM, Tommy Boy said:
But I was introducing myself as "Hey man I'm Jeff" for example instead of "Hello <rank/name>" which should have been the obvious answer. I've learned from the mistake but I think I have shot myself in the foot with the 190th at this point unfortunately. Awesome group of people out there, I would highly recommend anyone putting in an app for them!
Missed Opportunity for this GIF!
Anyway I love this thread. I'm glad to see in this alternate universe, Chris Farley is still alive and trying to become a pilot.
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On 6/3/2020 at 3:02 AM, HuggyU2 said:
Bite your tongue. The green bag will be around when intergalactic travel is commonplace.
I've seen that tv show.
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I finally graduated college in May at 28 years old. I wasn't able to go to college until 24 and my mentality for doing well, studying hard, everything has been a pilot slot in the Guard but also the Reserve, Active Duty and even further back up plans with the Army or Coast Guard.
I've have several people tell me over the years that I should have a more open mind and not be focused on pilot slot. I should also consider other potential careers in the Air Force. Of course they brought up the you're an officer first (which is true) and that you will be flying a desk 90% of the time like every officer position in the Air Force (which is true) but I always bring up that only pilots still get to fly.
I've also had guys tell me that either most pilots hate being pilots (I call bullshit) or they would be more than happy to have another non-flying job in the Air Force (I'm skeptical).
I guess I'm just really competitive and hate being told I can't do something. When people tell me I should be focused on becoming a pilot, it makes me just want to become one even more.
I did terrible in school as a kid and my parents, teachers and other peers never thought I could go to college or actually make something of my life. I graduated in May with a 3.6 GPA, was accepted into an honor society in the fall 2019 and I am going to Grad School at my Alma Mater in Fall 2020.
I guess now I feel like I've worked my ass off in school, I was taking Flying Lessons until COVID-19 happened (hopefully can resume soon) and was still able to play intramural/development club hockey with a bunch of 18-22 years at school, play adult travel baseball and am now racing BMX again (haven't done it since I was 18) all while working full time. The only things left to do are take the AFOQT and TBAS both were canceled due to COVID and I might be able to take them in August.
That I don't want to settle for anything less than a pilot slot. Whether it's flying fighters or heavies in the Air Force, Helicopters in the Army, or Heavies or Choppers in the Coast Guard I want to fly.
Should I keep up this mentality?
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I've been using Trivium's online test
I paid for AFOQTAcademy's online test
and I've been using AFOQTpractice test.com
I've done both the Trivium and Baron tests in their books as well as the short AFOQT PDF from the Air Force website.
Are all of these tests good? The only sections I still really struggle with are Arithmetic and Math. (I've never taken college Algebra or Geo. I took Stats and Finite Math).
Is there any other practice test I should know about?
If I take this test at the end of this month, I want to be ready and ace this ing thing.
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My recruiter told me that if I go to the AD OTS board and if I am not selected for a pilot slot. I have to take whatever job I am given or I can never join the military again in any fashion. I would prefer a Guard/Reverse slot but I'm trying for a pilot slot anyway I can. My recruiter said the last several boards have had way more applicants and even people with PPLs aren't getting pilot slots. Some got other rated positions CSO and ABM and others got non-rated positions all together.
Is this true or is this just recruiter BS?
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I know the feeling OP. The cost of living keeps skyrocketing and I think like the poster said above the cost to get a PPL is now closer to $10K to $15K rather than $5K to $8K most people state on forums (A lot of these people got their PPLs 5 to 15 years ago or they are luckily that they live in a low cost area).
Like you I've been underemployed for a long time. I had a great job back in 2012 to 2015 and I regret not getting a PPL then. I managed to land two full time work from home jobs back in January (still have them but hours were cut due to COVID-19) and was able to take 6 lessons in February/March. COVD-19 happened and my instructor was laid off. I'm hoping he can get rehired when this lockdown finally ends. I'm hoping around July I can start taking lessons again.
As for advice. The only advice I can give is keep looking for better employment. I know this is way easier said then done and I'm sure there are days when you feel like life is unfair and you want to punch a whole in your wall. Believe me, I've been there. But keep trying.
Sadly the hard part about my area is that it rains a lot, so none of the FBOs/Airports are really busy and most all year around operate with skeleton crews and are rarely hiring. (I applied multiple times). It also means frequent lessons cancellations.
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23 minutes ago, ryleypav said:
I believe you still need to apply for ENJJPT even when you go through OCS. So its by no means guaranteed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also keep in mind, that while your chances are much better, ENJJPT doesn't necessarily guarantee a fighter. The only way to guarantee a fighter slot is to get hired by a guard unit.
That's what I thought.
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On 5/19/2020 at 9:46 AM, tarheelaviator said:
The pilot shortage in the AF and Navy won't exist much longer if there are no options on the backend for pilots nearing the end of their ADSC other than staying in. I suspect it is going to get much harder but I wouldn't worry about it. Focus on what you can control, get your scores up, get more hours in, more work experience, stay physically fit, etc. Not worth stressing on factors you can't control.
I know I shouldn't worry but as someone who is 28 and is running out of time this is a huge worry. I worry that they might change the age standards back to 28-29 as the cutoff.
Am I Going About Visits Wrong? Should I Cast a Wider Net?
in Air National Guard / Air Force Reserves
Posted
I'm still baffled as to why they cancelled. I have very little social media presence. Nothing political, controversial nor racy. No drug use, no physical limitations, no arrests not even a speeding ticket. My hair is short. The picture on my application was a head shot of me in a suit.
Officer recruiters are tough and always have been. The first time to schedule the AFOQT it took me almost 2 years. Part of that was I didn't have a degree yet, then COVID happened. Now it's mostly age. It seems the odd chance I do get an officer recruiter on the phone or via text, they either tell me my age is too high (I'm 30) or they have too many applicants now and ghost me. I've tried ROTC units as well and it seems a lot don't allow non-cadets to take the test anymore. I've tried bases but all of them say, I need a military I.D. to get on base.
The first time I finally managed to get the AFOQT done in the middle of COVID, it was an out of state Reserve Recruiter. After my test results came back, he told me through email that my scores were too low and then ghosted me. It took me six more months with another out of state recruiter to get the TBAS done and that recruiter is no longer active.
I'll look into enlisting again. I didn't before as I was afraid getting deployed since I was an older college student and wanted to finish.