tkownedu5
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I must be out of the loop, what is this referring to?
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Worth noting that if you are happy with heavies, you have plenty of time still to get picked up by a guard unit. The airlines are gonna heat up quick and you'll see people start chasing the money again. But like you said you can spend a lot of time chasing units and job postings that never materialize. If you are single, no kids, want to see the world, just pull the trigger on AD while you are young, I wish I had done it. You'll also get a medical done first, rather than spend 5-10k rushing units across the country to finally get hired and than get booted for some med issue you did not know you had.
What makes you say I have plenty of time for heavies? Would you recommend the standard MEPS medical or FC1? Not sure if I can the FC1 done without being sponsored.
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Just turned 26 this past January. My AFOQT is scheduled this month, hopefully this time around it doesn’t get canceled. Due to Covid, it’s been taking me months to get it scheduled. Once that’s done my goal is to serve my country ASAP. I have no preference of airframe or location, if I had to choose I would love to fly heavies. I’ve been told I could be considered old by some units and that my time is running out. If that’s the case should I attempt and apply to AD? I’ve heard many say they’ve applied to units for 2-3 years before getting selected or even not. I would hate to apply and interview with a bunch of units only to never get selected for a UPT slot and end up being too old for AD. The thought of keeping my current job while flying in the guard or reserves sounds great but ultimately I just want to get to UPT anyway possible.
Personal stats:
- 3.5 GPA B.S Logistics
- Athlete throughout high school and college
- Academic scholarship for first 2 years of college
- 34hrs towards ppl, check-ride should be soon
- Civilian loadmaster with Cargo airline
- 7 years of leadership/management experience
- Single no dependents
- AF parents both special ops 20 years retired.
I appreciate any input. Thank you!
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[mention=80236]tkownedu5[/mention]
I hear you on money being tight, it sucks right now. If you need to, grab a second job and find a way to make it happen. We're in odder times than usual.
From my layman's perspective, it would still be in your best interest to get the certificate anyway to boost your chances. Apparently the number of applicants has been skyrocketing even before the pandemic. Bogidope's website has made it easier than before to see what units are hiring and how to contact their POCs directly. Also as I mentioned earlier with C.W. Lemoine, his videos are getting a lot of views. I had an interview last year and I think the squadron's POC said they had around 150 applicants for one slot. When I was hired in March of this year I think the squadron had around 250 applicants for what ended up being two slots. People are becoming very interested in applying! However, if all you can muster financially right now is the solo, then get 'r done!
If you open the file with Adobe PDF Reader [not an internet browser], on the left side in Reader there is paperclip icon you can click for the attachments.
Sure we can direct message or continue on this thread, either or. The forum is showing 235+ views for this thread so apparently there's quite a few interested lurkers in what we've all been saying.
Been following C.W. Lemoine for sometime now and I’m also on the Facebook group Make Them Tell You No. I have about 4 solo flights. I will be continuing my training here soon. I’ve been picking up OT and selling a few things to get started.
I understand the numbers are going up for applicants and a lot of them have might have more flying experience than me. I’m hoping my leadership experience through my achievements professionally will help outweigh the short comings of not having a PPL. I’ve been In management from the age of 19-25 years old, moved up rather quickly. Ended becoming an inbound operations manager for up to 100 people in logistics.
Great news!! My recruiter called and I’ve finally been approved for my physical for meps. Contacting an Air Force advisor online must of helped. I’m due to leave 20/21 this month. 6 months later!
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[mention=80236]tkownedu5[/mention]
In that case since you’ve got your bachelor’s degree with a good GPA, get your certificate done, because you’ll need it to stand out whether you’re going Active/Reserve/Guard. Especially in this high retention time the AF is experiencing.
I included a PDF in this post to you. Open it only on a desktop in an Adobe PDF viewer so you can open the attachments. One of the attachments has the Officer Accessions Recruiter for your geographic location that I think only handles the aviation related officer accessions. Be advised, the PDF may have been revised since I got it in the spring of 2020.
Regardless if you’re going Active/Reserve/Guard, start calling around to “local” Officer Accessions recruiters (even if they’re not listed on the PDF I sent) about scheduling to do the AFOQT and the TBAS examinations. I was able to do them about two years prior to me being sponsored at a unit. I called a recruiter a state away, exchanged information, and she got me on a local base to do the examinations. (Get your certificate done first before the TBAS because more flight hours you have equals a higher PCSM score, to a point).
From the outside looking in, the whole process for the AF getting pilot applicants into the AF seems broken and inefficient as there’s no one really batting for you until you’re sponsored by a unit, which to my knowledge only happens in the Reserve/Guard where you then have a POC who knows what strings to pull and has access to do so.
AFRC_UFT_Guidebook.pdf
Money is tight so I’m trying m my best to finish up my PPL. I know quite a few guys get selected for heavies without a ppl, some units have waived that requirement and just want someone to at least have solo’d an aircraft. Thank you for the PDF, unless I’m not seeing it I do not see the contact list for the recruiters.
If you wouldn’t mind, could we possibly DM each other? Might be easier for us and not flood the forum. Thank you so much for the help.
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Thanks for the kind words. Inspiration to others is what I intended with that post. Also, C.W. Lemoine has exploded in popularity with his videos, if you haven't watched them, check him out. His saying of "Make them tell you no." rings true throughout this entire process.
I was assigned to different Officer Accession recruiters for different reasons over the course of several months due to the various recruiters switching units, or being promoted (thus I was in limbo until their replacement arrived), or retiring (as in the one recruiter who was worthless at his job). I think I had to send the same documents multiple times to each recruiter because it's as if they didn't communicate with one another and send each other what I had already sent.
I may be wrong since I don't know your life, but it sounds like you're doing it backwards, so I'll ask some questions to clear up my confusion.
Do you have your bachelor's degree? Do you have a private pilot certificate? Also, what is this Air Force Advisor you're speaking of?
I do have my bachelors. 3.5 GPA. 32hrs towards my PPL. The Advisor I spoke to was an online chat log on the Air Force reserve website where I explained my situation and they left a note for my recruiter to see what’s going on. They said if I don’t hear from my recruiter to give them a call.
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I wanted to write this long post so you and others know they're not alone in experiencing these feelings and circumstances you expressed.
I haven't been logging this information so it's all coming from memory. I was hired around March 2020. In about three months' time I think I was assigned around five Officer Accessions Recruiters. One of which was particularly worthless and admitted to me multiple times he didn't care about his job any longer because he was retiring in a few months. While I appreciated his honesty, it made the process suck even more than it already did because he was the current gatekeeper to my future. I think I had to talk with my sponsoring unit's point-of-contact about the recruiter because the apathy got that bad, which then made some gears start turning in my process. The pandemic shutdowns happened around this time and did not help.
I then got another Officer Accessions Recruiter who seemed to both know his stuff and had the drive to get the process moving. While that ended up being true, he did tell me I was one of several hundred other applicants he was assigned. In June we sent the documents to MEPS requesting them to see me. A few weeks later, MEPS denied me, and said I had to get more records for something. I then scheduled a private physician appointment with the closest opening being several weeks out, spent several hundred dollars, then the medical record had ambiguous language due to the physician's software being used and by the fact the physician did not understand what I was requesting when I went there, despite me clearly stating it several times and him acknowledging it. About a week later, and with calling both his staff and the hospital which owns the clinic about ten times playing telephone tag, the physician got the record straightened out.
My recruiter then sent another request for MEPS to see me. The recruiter then called me later on to say I had multiple things that needed serious waivers. I was shocked and asked him to check his information because I thought he had the wrong applicant. He checked his information (I think it took a few days for him to get back with me) and my belief ended up being true, he got me mixed up with one of the other several hundred applicants. That was a stressful few days.
MEPS responded to the second request and said they wouldn't see me, so my recruiter had to request the Air Force Surgeon General's staff to override MEPS which forced MEPS to see me. I then went to MEPS and an ancient Chief Medical Officer misdiagnosed/disqualified me, and believed a separate prior temporary condition which hasn't affected for years was an issue and disqualified me for that too. I then scheduled another private physician appointment with the closest opening being several weeks out (sound familiar?), spent even more hundreds dollars, and thankfully got good medical records from the start this time, which showed the MEPS CMO was wrong.
The new documentation was sent to MEPS by my recruiter, and I visited MEPS a second time in November 2020. While at MEPS for the second time, I thankfully was assigned a different physician to examine me (not the CMO). This physician asked me what I had done to improve my condition (which did not exist). I told him I was misdiagnosed last visit at MEPS by CMO so-and-so, the physician laughed and made comments about how the misdiagnoses happened frequently with that CMO. Oddly enough, that CMO was not there when I went the second time and it was actually a different CMO, who was much younger. Maybe the CMO I had the fist time was also experiencing retirement performance apathy and had since retired? Anyway, this physician then examined me and found me within parameters of what MEPS and the AF Surgeon General wanted. The physician scoffed at the idea that the separate prior temporary condition as being an issue and said it was no problem. He also told me he believed the misdiagnoses should be taken out of my file, but said he did not want to do so because it would be too much paperwork.... I didn't care because I fell within what MEPS and the AF SG wanted. I left MEPS literally fist-pumping in the parking lot (I don't care if it's cringe) and was then granted the official waiver by the AF Surgeon General this month. Now onto the wait for the initial flight class 1 physical examination.
MEPS will try to railroad you at every step of the way. It's like getting your vehicle registered at your state government office on a Saturday. Go here, do this, you don't have something go away, now come back, your recruiter didn't send this or that, sit down now tell me... do you have records for that time you said you had the sniffles when you were four years old? No? Come back in two months when you do. Next!
I had to articulate an on-the-fly request to the MEPS physicians to measure me a different way, sure enough they did and determined me to be within the regulations. I had to ask the eye examining worker to repeat themselves about six times because their thick Puerto Rican accent made it impossible for me to understand which line they wanted me to read letters from. MEPS is not recruit/officer training. What I mean by that is do NOT think down on yourself for thinking/acting about only YOURSELF at MEPS. Once you're at officer training, then you're a part of a team and what's best for the team comes first, but that team mentality does not exist at MEPS even though it seems like it due to how it's structured. There is zero practical customer service/satisfaction at MEPS and you'll be out the exit door with a disqualification faster than you even knew what they disqualified you for if you let them. Can you tell I'm jaded about MEPS?
The whole waiting process is tough because I think, generally, those of us who have been sponsored by units have self initiative to take charge of our own affairs; which is probably one trait contributing to the fact we were sponsored in the first place. Having to leave this bureaucratic process in the hands of other people (recruiters, physicians, et cetera), who don't care about your future as much as you do, is tough. The wait and bureaucracy does, on its surface, make it feel as if the Air Force doesn't care about us. Except you have to take a step back and remember you've been chosen, among hundreds and thousands of other people to have the opportunity to pilot the coolest aircraft, in the best air force, of the best Nation on this planet, all paid for by the tax-payer. Pulling myself back and remembering that is something which keeps me motivated.
Between almost every big step in my process has been about a month's wait. Sometimes less, but usually never shorter than two weeks. I've gotten used to it at this point, still heavily dislike it though. I'm expecting two years from hire date to OTS.
Lean on your sponsoring unit's point-of-contact for help if you're legitimately stuck. Give requests to private physicians in writing if possible, they don't understand how MEPS works and what MEPS wants or doesn't want to see. Speak up for yourself at every step.
Wow, you really went through a lot during this process. Most people would’ve gave up experiencing those setbacks. You persevered which is inspiring to me.
I’m just not sure if I have a bad recruiter or if meps is severely backlogged. How do you get assigned a new officer accessions recruiter? I personally researched and found two recruiters last year who didn’t wanna work with me. I was then referred to my current recruiter by a sponsored pilot. This recruiter was willing to help me. He was great at the start and gave me hope but now things are dwindling down and I’m getting far less attention from him.
It sound so simple, go to meps and get my physical, take the tests, then start applying for units. I can’t apply to any units until meps is over with. Going on 7 months now with barely any progress is discouraging.
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Can attest to a similar experience. My old MEPS physical is over 2 years old so I am having to get another. Getting an appointment right now is Lord of Flies and taking months. DM for details but it sounds like we are in the same boat.
This is so frustrating and has caused me to wonder why the AF wouldn’t want me, at least that’s what it feels like when I get no responses. I contacted an Air Force advisor today and explained my situation. They told me the commission process is slower than enlisted guys for some reason. He said he was gonna leave a note for my recruiter, not sure what good that will do but I’m hoping it works.
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Keep doing your part. It ebbs and flows on how quickly things go.
I heard a rumor that reserve and guard units are losing pilot slots to active duty because of the giant need right now. Let me clarify need. They need the pilot slots because active duty AF (rotc, academy, OTS) are severely overmanned with bodies. And the OTS route is usually what they slow to a trickle or all together to manage flow on ROTC and academy. I heard ROTC is trying hard to send dudes to guard and reserve because there is no where to put them. There are even claims of ROTC units letting dudes just go from their commitment before commissioning and letting them go with a paid for 4 year degree. Apparently there is no other place to put these people.
1st. It’s just something I heard and can’t verify.
2nd. It’s not unusual for OTS to go down to a trickle to deal with Manning.
3rd. Regardless of all the above. I’d recommend guard or reserve.
4th. It may just be a crappy recruiter or MEPS. Keep trying. Don’t stop if you truly want to volunteer for service.
Honestly, at this point I wouldn’t care if I went AD, Guard, or Reserve. Whatever service can get me to UPT sooner. I don’t have a preference for an airframe, I would love heavies because of the crew aspect but I will be happy flying anything. I’ve contacted an AF advisor and they’re leaving a note on my file to alert my recruiter to see what’s going on causing the delay.
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From the time I’ve contacted my AFR recruiter to submitting all my medical records for Meps, it’s been a solid 6 months and I have yet to be scheduled for a physical. Every response from Meps took over two weeks, sometimes 20+ days. Long story short my medical records weren’t in order and I had sent duplicates. Everything has been corrected since then and that was almost a month ago. I am contacting my recruiter weekly and I’m getting the same response from him, waiting on guidance from Meps. Is anyone else experiencing this issue? When I was going for the Navy they cleared me for a physical in about a month. Where do I go from here? I’m so eager to serve my country as an officer and pilot.
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Also, checkout http://www.bogidope.com/ for some basic on the merits of the AD versus ANG/AFRES questions. They also offer interview preparation and application review in which I plan on using based on people's experiences here. It'll also let you know which units are hiring and give you an idea of what is typically expected in each interview packet.
I think it's been mentioned already but there are some great tips for studying for the AFOQT on here with recommended books etc. Once you get your AFOQT search on here for the TBAS flashcards and other study materials for that etc before taking the test. I DIDN"T do that and I'm having to retake both.
Time is also on your side as well and it's a great time to be a candidate in this hiring environment!
Thank you sir, I will definitely use these resources to my advantage. I’ll be 25 in January, what is considered “old” I feel like I’m getting close. I know the age cut offs but I don’t want units turning away from me.
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For what it's worth coming from another candidate, go take your tests and then reevaluate based off your scores. In regards to flying, the PPL is a major check in the box for any guard/reserve unit. I work a job that has me gone for 90 days and home for 30, so i was in a similar situation to you and managed to get my PPL accomplished in two leave cycles. I'm not sure what kind of units you are looking to apply to, but some of the feedback I have received list how many hours the applicants for that board had, with the majority of then over 100 hours.
Fighters would be cool and I wouldn’t turn down that opportunity but I’m leaning more towards heavies. I’ll try my best to get this ppl knocked out.
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32hrs towards my PPL now. I’m so close but have ran into a minor speed bump and my mind is racing. Long story short, I got a new job with Atlas Airlines. I’ll be gone 20 days out of the month with 10 days off at home. Between my job and flying only 10 days it’s going to be tough to finish. The urge to fly in the military is killing me, it’s all I want to do. My question is, should I just stop flying, take the AFOQT and TBAS, hope to score well and just start applying for units for AFR & ANG? I feel I’m pretty marketable with 32hrs as long as I score well on the tests. Thank you all for the help!
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This is a little beyond me, as I have been hired, but haven't made it to OTS or UPT yet. But someone finishes at the bottom of their class in every class. The key word is "finish". If you graduate UPT and get your wings, you're going to fly.
Sir, you’ve been a great help, thank you. Congrats on getting hired, I can only hope for the same. Time to hit the books hard and take the tests asap. I’m doing my cross country flight this week and that will put me at 20 hrs flight time.
I have some thinking to do. Reserves sounds more appealing to me right now considering I can still go through upt and get my wings without actually being sponsored by a unit. I’ve been told by many pilots in the civilian world to go guard or Reserve due to good work/life balance and if I’d like to fly outside of the military.
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When a reserve squadron hires you, they “sponsor” you when your package meets the reserve hiring board. The reserves also have an unsponsored board, so you can get picked up without being hired by a unit. Then you have until you graduate UPT to find a reserve unit to “sponsor” you. And if you don’t, the Reserves will assign you to a squadron.
You are correct when talking about being hired by a specific unit. Although, I’ll add that you still have to make the grades a perform. They normally won’t shove a guy that at the very bottom of his class through to T-38s even if he’s hired by a fighter squadron.
Why I say you have more control in AD than unsponsored Reserves is because in AD, your performance is the main determining factor. Unsponsored Reserve students are automatically tracked T-1s unless the student finds a fighter or bomber squadron to sponsor them before track night. And since there are only 3-4 of fighter or bomber squadrons in the reserves that send people to UPT, their spots are normally filled.
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I had no idea they had an unsponsored route. So either way even if I don’t get picked up by a unit through applying Ill get placed somewhere. Which ultimately, is my goal to just get with a unit and start flying. I was leaning towards more AD because the reserve and guard units are very selective and right now obtaining my PPL is getting difficult due to lack of funds, which is generally a requirement for most units.
Let’s say a guy does finish at the bottom of his class in AD or Reserve does that mean he won’t ever get to fly?
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Any highly rated AFOQT study guide should be good. I used Barons and scored really well.
Getting picked up for AD is easier than getting hired at most ANG or Reserve units, but I’m not sure how it compares to an unsponsored reserve spot.
Ignoring the lifestyle and culture differences between AD and the Reserves, the next biggest difference is that going AD gives you more control over your airframe than unsponsored reserve. In AD your performance determines airframe and you’re open to both T-38 and T-1 tracks. With reserve unsponsored, 99% track T-1s since there are so few Reserve fighter and bomber squadrons.
If you just want to fly, which is an awesome attitude to have, I’d apply to guard and reserve units for a while and then consider either AD or unsponsored Reserves.
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I’ve never heard of unsponsored reserve, what does that mean? I thought you had less control over your airframe in AD considering you could be placed in any airframe based off performance where as in Guard or Reserve you select units based off preference of airframe, heavy or jets etc.
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AFOQT scores are percentile-based. You can almost treat them like letter-grades. You'll want to get >90s in Pilot, Quantitative, and Academic Aptitude with an average score overall of >80. Those are numbers just pulled out of my @$$, but they're not too far off if you want to be really competitive with AFOQT scores. Essentially anything >90 is great, anything 80-90 is good, anything 70-80 is acceptable, anything 60-70 is looked at with a discerning eye, and anything
I take that I can probably find the Trivium AFOQT study guide on Amazon? Would it be “easier” to be selected for a pilot slot going active versus reserve? I just want to fly something.
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Hello all,
It’s been a dream of mine to fly and serve my country. Both my parents were special ops in the Air Force, one retired. I’ve grown up around the military lifestyle and have learned a lot through that time. I’m wanting to serve in any branch that will take me for a pilot slot preferably fixed wing, no helos. Here’s where I’m at.
- 24 years old with a B.S degree in business administration with a focus in logistics, 3.7 gpa.
- ~18hrs towards my PPL with a solo. About to do my cross country. Hours will go up weekly, every two weeks money depending.
- 3 LOR’s, retired AF pilot, Store director (work), and executive (work).
- No test scores yet. Been studying for the Navy and AF tests. What scores should I aim for, obviously higher the better?
- 6 years with a large corporation. Started out as a standard employee to a Sr. Manager in logistics. Currently with 3 years management experience.
Money is tight so obtaining my PPL is getting more and more difficult. I know some units for guard and AFR will take candidates with just a solo and competitive AFOQT & TBAS scores. I know my chances as of right now are 0 based off having no scores. I’m just not sure which route to take AD, Reserve, Navy, Marines, or ANG? Which branch is looking for more pilots? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. What should I study, books, sites, etc?
I will update this thread as soon as I get my scores.
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I had a 40 pilot AFOQT out of USAFA because I didn’t want to fly, bought the book attached and studied for 2 weeks and got a 97. Headed to upt in October
Did this book help you on other subjects as well besides the pilot section? I have this book and wasn’t sure if this was enough to study.
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26 years old, Go AD or ANG/AFR?
in Air National Guard / Air Force Reserves
Posted
Thank you for sharing that. This is so gut wrenching but like the email says I will stick around for the long run and hope to land a slot in the near future.
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