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169FE

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Posts posted by 169FE

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I am a 30 year plus A&P, what I tried to instill into my young troops before I crossed into the blue id world was try not to be a glorified gas station attendant, you can train a monkey to refuel and lox airplanes. I had the pleasure to work with some old school F.E's who started on recips who knew their shit and made your job easier when it came to actually debriefing troubleshooting and repairing. I think its a generational thing, my childhood was working on cars, building go carts from a lawn mower engine and actually taking shop classes in high school. I have a 17 year old son who is scared to death to learn how to drive.

    Definitely can't argue that one; valid point. Well, hopefully I can keep the old school mentality going in to training and then with my National Guard Squadron. We fly H3s and I pray to the God of C-130s they stick around long enough for me to get some good time in the old bird. Like you said, it seems like the old school mentality is disappearing, back shop work is being farmed out to OEM manufacturers, and trouble-shooting now is basically, "If something does't work swap, drop parts and put a new ones in until the problem's fixed." That, or the little black box is doing much of the trouble-shooting for you.

    Anyways, what do I know what I'm talking about I am just a new guy. Hopefully it's possible to still be a respected old-school type of FE!

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Fu

    You know, honestly, the most important thing I feel a new person in aircrew can bring to the table whether they're prior maintenance or not is the right attitude, being positive, and ready to learn. Even us maintainers (or most in the USAF for that matter) don't understand the physic of flight, how a solenoid, limit switch, works, engine performance of an aircraft (unless you're in the right AFSC), etc. So in the end, what matters most is that the attitude matches the job and that the person is ready to learn. I think someone with the right attitude who works their butt off to learn can come in with no knowledge of maintenance from flipping burgers and become a better FE than someone who comes in from say, Hydraulics or Crew Chief, but with an attitude that they've already "earned" the right to wear the pajama suit and act as if they know everything already. From what I understand (and I haven't gone through any of my course for FE yet-start in a few months), this AFSC can be very demanding.

    So in the end, attitude does equals altitude. That's really in any job. Of course it helps to go in with a baseline knowledge, but any one willing to give it their all could turn in to a great crew member. That's half the battle anyway, finding guys and gals that you could see yourself flying around with for months in stressful situation without wanting to rip their head off; at least from my experience that is a huge factor (not that I really have much at this point, just seems to be noticeable).

    Cheers.

    -Anyone have tips for a FNG prior to leaving for fundies and BFE down at good ol' Lackland-Medina?

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Tried to become a FE four times from the Crew Chief world but always got denied for some reason or another. For those who are successful please try the mx world first, in the early 90's we had a group on E-3 FE's who came from non mx backgrounds and did not have the common sense on how things on acft worked. They became very defensive when trying to do a MX debrief. If your working in services or MPF and can't tell the difference between a T-6 and a C-5 please stay where you are at.

    You aren't even kidding either. I've came from 10 years background in maintenance (not that this is a lot, but it's better than someone from a non-maintenance background with no knowledge of aircraft sub-systems or theory of flight, etc). I'm not quite sure when the powers that be decided to take pipe-liners in to the 1A1 field, or if it was just a brief exception due to the ops-tempo in the early 2000s, but anymore I believe the USAF is back to only taking FEs in from feeder AFSCs or those who have AP license, private pilot's licenses, or similar. I wish it would have worked out for you Prosuper. Crew Chief is still an essential role, hold your head high.

    Some of the stupidest students I taught at the FTU were prior Maintainers. I've stopped a Crew Chief before from pushing in fuel boost pump circuit breakers because they were popped. Then I heard that a part of all maintenance school at Sheppard was literally explaining the difference between a Phillips and flathead screw driver. Just because you were prior [insert job], does not make you successful at a new career field, no matter how much you think you have a one up due to your previous background.

    When I was deployed with C-130 maintainers I heard some GAC guy say that Flight Engineers are Maintainers that couldn't hack maintenance. I laughed, yet he was being serious.

    That's true too. Common sense just isn't so common any more. Younger troops now are just not as hands on as they used to be it seems; everything is becoming automated, automatic, and it doesn't require any actual hands on work, trouble-shooting knowledge, and so much of the backshop stuff is being passed along to depots or vendors. I work as a Field Service Engineer in the civ world in addition to the Guard as an FE and it amazes me how much backshop work is farmed out now. Turnover is high, and all the 5-level worker bees or above seem to be hard to retain.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    You'll get flight pay once your Aeronautical Orders (AO) are cut, which is normally the first day of intial qual at Little Rock. Family separation will start after being seaparted for more than 30-days. As for Abah I don't know the rule for ANG/AFRC folks.

    Thanks for the input, Azimuth.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    This might be a dumb question, but I don't know the answer and am looking to figure out:

    When I'm at training for FE, what all entitlements for pay am I provided? Of course regular pay... how about stuff like BAH, flight pay, family separation, etc.

    I don't leave for any of my training until September, but it'd be nice to get a beat on how my income will be effected when training full-time away from my full time job as a civilian.

    Thank you!

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Sounds like I've got nothing to worry about at SERE even if I'm in relatively decent shape after reading these replies about people not passing the course; haha. It should be an interesting few weeks! I've heard mixed reviews. Some say it's hard. Some say all you do is hike and sleep in the woods and get a little hungry. Some say the winter SERE is horrible, some say it's better because it's not muggy and hot and you can dress warm. I suppose it's all in the eye of the person who is there and how they handle the situations they put you in.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    That's actually a really good point man, I really appreciate the insight. Though the cold and snow might seem bad you can always dress warm (or warmer and try to stay warm). I heard that the instructors are rather liberal in what you wear when out in the field, no? I imagine ground pounding longer miles in the summer or spring when it's rained a lot and your boots are caked with lbs of mud and that does seem pretty crappy like you are mentioning. Regardless, I'll push through either summer or winter SERE.

    How do you like flying on the -135? There's an old Crew Chief from Fairchild who works on my shop floor now. How do you like using the wingtip pods on the -135? I imagine most of your stateside refueling is done with the boom since almost all USAF birds are boom refuelers and Navy/Allied forces are the hose and drogue. Since I deal with the -10 in my full-time job quite a bit now I've always wondered how the boomers on -135s like the laying down style you use while refueling.

    Thanks for the replies man I appreciate your insight to the training.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by 169FE

    Makes sense Azimuth, just thought there was an outside chance. BFE is a washout course crammed into a month's time. I hear it's a fire hose of information coming at you the whole time suited to weed out all the chumps who just want to wear a flight suit so... Well I'll continue my wait, be patient, and be ready when the time comes in Sept. It's look more and more like I'll have the absolute pleasure of doing a winter SERE out at Fairchild (yippy).

    Are you a Boomer on the -35, -10? Currently I'm a Field Service Engineer for the center line on the -10.

    Cheers.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Thanks for all the great information and knowledge everyone. It's been a while since I've updated on here while waiting for news, but now I have some! After a little waiting, I've received all signatures and have been approved with training dates to Aircrew Fundamentals and Basic Flight Engineer at Lackland AFB starting this coming September.

    It took me roughly from January to April drills in the Guard to receive the final thumbs up for training dates after my packet was submitted. The packet had to be signed off by a flight doctor at both base and states levels prior to the training dates.

    Just for FYI to any other Guard guys looking for timeline, altogether from packet submission until I leave for fundies is around 9 months (which isn't surprising to me after all the reading I've done) I just wish it could occur sooner! I suppose this will give me some time to get my life prepared and in order to be in and out of the house with all the training at different locations around the country (as well as kiss the old ladies behind a while prior to taking off for some on AC).

    Hopefully my survival schools and Airframe at The Rock line up well with the training dates I have already.

    Questions:

    1. Is anyone familiar with or have heard of training dates with already cut orders ever changing if a slot opens up? I was cut orders for the fundies and BFE already but wonder if they could ever be bumped up.
    2. Is it possible that SERE, water, and para occur prior to fundies and BFE still or do you think they'll line all survivals up right prior to Airframe at The Rock? There's probably a usual general order they send you to the schools in I would imagine.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    A rough estimate would be with a simple waiver like PRK, 3 weeks after submittal to MAJCOM, 2 weeks if there was no waiver. HOWEVER, you don't know exactly when it is submitted to MAJCOM because the physical is submitted via an electronic application that routes for electronic signatures within the Medical Group first, and some dentist might accidentally (re: lazily) sit on it for a week, or the SR (senior reviewer, usually the SGP or AMDS Commander) who also needs to co-sign it might be TDY or dealing with some unrelated Art 15 for some Airmen in the unit. Who knows. Give it about 2 weeks, then call back and ask the MSME for a status check. After AETC signs the physical, you should be given a copy of the DD 2807 and 2808, and if you are also currently AD, you'll need an AF 422. These 3 forms are uploaded for review in MyPers for AFPC to include in your complete retraining package.

    You are thee man, thank you.

    I did have a waiver for PRK. I went through the 1, 3, 6, 9, 12 month process with the eye doc. Your points for it getting lost on a desk for a week or so are definitely being taken in to account. I completed my physical January 4 so it hasn't been that long, but I haven't heard anything back from my Chief Engineer. Since I'm National Guard, I can't get on the portal from home to check my status on there. I've got drill this coming weekend so I'm hoping to hear something.

    One more question. If my Ops Chief is out TDY or deployed and I need another good contact to help pushing things down the road for progress; do you have a suggestion on who else could help get answers?

    Thanks again.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    The IFC III that your local flight doc / clinic perform is just part of the medical clearance process. Every IFC package is submitted to MAJCOM for final review and approval, which is nearly always AETC because that will be the gaining MAJCOM if retraining is approved. This is the standard process every flight medicine clinic / MSME office. This is different from IFC I (Pilot) applications, which require a TDY to Wright-Patt (MFS).

    Thank you for the explanation, I really appreciate it. I'm not sure what it all means, I just know that it means I am not in the clear yet! So, I required a waiver for PRK. I went through the 1, 3, 6, 9, 12 month checkups with my eye doc, who at my FCIII eye exam with him a month ago told me that, "you are well within the limits." The flight doc at the end also said everything looked go, so I'm really hoping that AETC sees it this way too.

    I know that if you were given a dollar every time asked you this next question you'd probably be a millionaire, but would there happen to be any timeline it usually take AETC to review a physical and approve it? Is there a time of the month they usually round up all packets and review them? Also, are there any additional things that have to occur prior to going from a status 3 to a status 5 after AETC reviews and approves a packet?

    Thank you again! Cheers.

    Is the KC-10 going to be cut?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    169FE,

    I'm disgruntled because I can't wear a 'SUCK FACTOR' morale patch, and my finances suck D2 the pension COLA cut... I'll sell you the KC-10 eTOLD program for 5 bucks. If that isn't sweet enough I'll throw in the W&B program for some french fries.

    I say sell the Chinese everything we have on the WARPs: that'll set them back at least 30 years.

    I've heard this about the WARPs many times, trust me! I'm pretty sure the Navy and allied forces almost always ask for the center line; if not 100% of the time. Cobham is Cobham I realize (the manufacturer of both the WARPs and the center line), but the center line is the US manufactured equipment and the WARP is the UK manufactured stuff. Since I'm US-based, the only thing I deal with is the center line. Not to mention, I don't think the hose and drogue systems gets used a whole lot stateside as it is in general, so even the center line here is pretty low-key.

    As far as the suck factor patch, maaaaaaan... I'm also in the Air Guard out of Illinois and we get to wear whatever the hell we want on our uniforms. Well, almost! Not really, but I wish. The pension and COLA freeze (or maybe they actually cut it?) is ridiculous, agreed.

    eTold for $5.00, buy us a pack of Keystone with it, and split the fries and it's a deal.

    • Upvote 1

    Is the KC-10 going to be cut?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by 169FE

    Dude, you sound like a Chinese spy or something

    Point well taken, I can respect that! If anyone is interested let me know and we'll find a way to talk through official channels. If not, no problem. Of course, I don't support posting technical proprietary information on this forum; just thought I'd use this as a springboard to reach out to Travis, McGuire, and folks in the AOR! Tankers are important; got to have them!

    If not, no worries! Have a good one everyone.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    BFE is not 6-months, that's more Initial Qual/IQT/FTU/Whatever your airframe calls it. The basic courses (BBOC, BLM, BFE, etc) are around 3-5 weeks. It's designed to be a washout course to see if you understand basic FE and aviation concepts before the USAF spends a ton of money on you to retrain in the pipeline. Also there's two water survival courses. If your aircraft still has parachutes (we lost them a few years ago in the KC-135), you'll get to parachute water survival down in NAS Pensacola. If you don't have parachutes, you'll stay at Fairchild for the non-parachute water survival. Each course is only 3-5 days long. I think rotary wing have to do the water dunker as well.

    Enlisted Aviators don't have "OJT" and most of us don't have CDC's anymore as well (Booms don't). After you complete the pipeline, to include initial qualification in your airframe, you'll go back home and do a local checkout. Some airframes do mission certification training in the FTU (i.e. Herks did last time I looked). Some units don't do that (KC-135's), you'll have to do that when you get out of initial qual.

    Excellent, thank you Azimuth. Got my dates mixed up there! Definitely way off on the BFE timeframe. It being a washout course makes perfect sense. Some guys on threads were talking about using per diem down there to get a really nice place with a few other guys since you're down there a while, which makes no sense to me if you're only at Lackland for say a total of 7-8 weeks between EAUC and BFE then. When the time comes I'll probably just go to the Air Force Inns or wherever my classmates stay, and study, study, study.

    I'll be going through for FE on C-130s, and I do believe that the training down at Pcola takes place for us. I also think that my Chief Engineer told me shortly ago that we do have some on-base flying after all the schooling for 2-3 months too. I know that our demand is pretty high for flyers, so maybe that's why they have the FEs on my base spending time flying after; not sure.

    The IFC III that your local flight doc / clinic perform is just part of the medical clearance process. Every IFC package is submitted to MAJCOM for final review and approval, which is nearly always AETC because that will be the gaining MAJCOM if retraining is approved. This is the standard process every flight medicine clinic / MSME office. This is different from IFC I (Pilot) applications, which require a TDY to Wright-Patt (MFS).

    Even though I've done everything I can up to this point and my FCIII went good on base, I know better then to get all excited. I applied and was chosen to fly as a Nav 3 years ago and had it held up short due to near-sided vision after my packet went out. Since then I've had PRK and am reapplying so we'll see what happens.

    Thanks a lot for the replies.

    Is the KC-10 going to be cut?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Hi All,

    New forum follower here. My name's Austin Van Duyne. I work as a Field Service Engineer for the OEM to the FR600 Centerline Hose Reel found on the Extender. If any Boomers, FE, Hydro guys, etc. who put their hands on the CLHRs would ever like to talk technical and share their experiences with the hose reel, I'd love to talk. I know that stateside the center line hose reel doesn't get used a lot unless it's partnering up with the Navy or foreign forces, but maybe you guys still use them time to time. I know they're obviously used over in the AOR overseas quite a bit.

    Anyways, thanks a lot! Look forward to talking center line or even wingtip WARPs too. I don't work the WARPs but could always relay the information.

    Cheers.

    Flight Engineer ?s

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by 169FE

    I just got done reading through the entire forum listed above by loadsmith, and boy let me tell you; if you haven't before and want to learn a lot of current 1A1 career field information take a peak at it. A lot of it seemed to pertain to the Active Duty process in getting hired on to cross-train in to this field, so as a National Guardsmen being hired on like myself, it may not help out in detail a whole lot since our process is a little different (at least I get the feeling it is). If there is anyone else reading this forum looking for high-level knowledge on the career field, here is what I took away from the 5 years worth of forum discussion within the link:

    Current FE Training (may not be assigned by your base training office in this order) *please correct me if I'm wrong

    1. EAUC (Aircrew Fundamentals), 2 weeks, Lackland AFB, TX
    2. BFE (Basic Flight Engineer School), roughly 3-5 weeks, Lackland AFB, TX; NOTE: rotary and tilt-rotor material has been removed from the course, and concentrates more on fixed-wing. Come to class with copies of your Form 1042, Flight Physical, and ready to study, study, study. The training consists of 9 blocks, and most mention that blocks 3-5 are the most difficult. Studying in groups and keeping a regimen is an absolute must.
    3. SERE (Search, Evade, Resistance, Escape School), 3 weeks, Fairchild AFB, WA
    4. FIxed-Wing Parachute Training, 1-2 days, Fairchild AFB, WA
    5. Water Survival Training, 2-3 days, Hurlburt Field, FL
    6. FTU (Airframe Specific Flight Training), length of training and locations vary depending on assigned airframe
    7. OJT (On-The-Job Training), 2-3 months, this may only apply to Reservists and Guard

    Some questions that I still have from that forum are:

    1. Does the board at AFPC still meet at the end of every month to review packets?
    2. After going through your Flight Class III Physical for this AFSC on base and it being approved by your local flight doc, does anyone else of a medical background review it at a higher level before approval (AFPC, etc. folks)?
    3. The general timeline from packet submittal (status 3) until AFPC approves it (status 5), to when you get school dates (status 6), and then actually leave for training seems to be around 6-8 months in total. Does that sound pretty accurate to anyone with the knowledge?
    4. Many AD guys talk about being able to track their "status" through vMPF. Does it work the same for Air Guardsmen? We use vMPF as well, just don't have access to it outside of base without a CAC reader.
    5. Do the training courses listed above generally get set up for you to do back to back from one another, or can they be split over a prolonged period of time?

    Yes I plan on asking these questions on the forum I actually read, I just joined though and an administrator hasn't given me the rights to do so yet. I'm sure a lot of folks on there could answer these too since all the questions surfaced from my reading that forum.

    Thanks all!

    Water Survival information

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    the Non-Eject water survival in spokanistan is by far the worst possible thing to be doing still drunk/hungover. Strobes, loud speakers, water hoses, packed rafts, rolling waves. Be careful with those huge beers at Steam Plant the night before. Or don't.

    Hahaha, this is great. Stories for life. I shall enjoy this very much when my time comes.

    Guy in my class @ Pensacola was puking all morning on the second day and they booted him from the class.

    We drank hard, slept little, and had a blast down there. Didn't hurt that it was the middle of July either...

    Definitely looking forward to this. I go down to Pcola to Hurlburt to work with the 413th FTS from time to time. Love it down there.

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