[CSO drop nights]

12-14 drop night results

3x F-15E Seymour-Johnson

3x U-28 Hurlburt

1x KC-135 McConnell

3x C-130 (1 of which was AFRC) Little Rock

1x EC-130 Nav Davis-Monthan

2x B-52 EWO Barksdale

2x RC-135 EWO Offutt

1x RC-135 Nav Offutt

1x B-1 Dyess

1x AC-130U Hurlburt

1x MC-130 Nav Cannon

1x AWACS Tinker

[CSO to Pilot]

Some people just can't face the brutal reality and make a decision based on what they see.

The guy wants a magic answer that doesn't exist.

He's been given excellent advice which he chooses to rail against like a two year old in the midst of a tantrum.

No amount of coaching can correct that.

Game over.

No I'm not looking for a magic answer. I'm just looking for something that isn't the same thing that in reality gives me nothing. I don't mentally have one foot out the door of UCT, I am just trying to plan ahead and anticipate what is down the road. Yes I understand I need to do well here, yes I know I need to do well at my FTU and at my MWS, there is no reason to talk down to me. If you feel the urge to do so again, I really suggest you take it elsewhere. I really don't have time for useless ignorant posts such as this.

I made the mistake of not planning for the future when I was in school and when I realized my mistake, it was too little too late at the time, there was nothing I could do that could alter my course and get me to UPT. I do not want to make the same mistake twice. So that being said, and other than the glaringly obvious advice, I am curious as to other's actual experiences. Not rumors or other BS.

I was told about a year ago by an F-15E pilot that he tracked WSO and upon arriving immediately went to UPT and that roughly 1 in 4 had the same opportunity. I am not sure if this sort of thing happens any longer, but things like this is what I'm looking for, trying to gauge my odds of making it. If there is a zero-percent chance that I will make it doing it the "normal" way, i.e. 3-4 years in my MWS, apply to the AD boards and pray for a waiver, etc, then I would rather go Strike Eagles and hope for UPT from there. Its those sort of things that are other options separate from the "hey put on a smile and enjoy your fate" sort of thing.

And yes, Rainman, I can face a brutal truth. But there is no brutal truth here, only rumors and speculation.

[CSO to Pilot]

Lose this attitude ASAP. No one at Pensacola gives a shit that you really, really wanted to be a pilot and neither will anyone at your gaining unit. Like I said before, if you show up as a brand new CSO and are only interested in being a pilot you're experience interacting with other CSOs will probably not be great.

Thats one of the most unfortunate things ever.

The grass is always greener man, there are ups and downs in every job. There are great CSO missions out there, when it comes time to pick concentrate on those rather than what will lead you to the front seat fastest.

Kinda goes against the whole point of my post.

It sure doesn't sound that way. The biggest thing holding you back from what you want might well be your attitude and that's one of the easiest things to fix. Fix it.

So you're saying if I'm happy with what I'm doing and not focus on being a pilot, it will magically happen?

If you can't live with being a CSO for minimum of 3-4 years and probably for the rest of your career considering your age, do not complete CSO training, do not pass GO, do not collect $200. If you're really so hard up to be a pilot, DOR, do your 4-6 years as a comm officer or whatever, get out and become a commercial pilot.

Wow, some people here are really good at completely and totally destroying dreams. So in your opinion there is 100% no way for me to have a shot, is that what you're getting at?

Because I find that hard to believe. With the options like Palace Chase, AD boards, etc, there has to be some way to get in to UPT from where I am or where I'll be in the future before I turn 30

[IFS and the right sight picture......]

Everyone who is going, you MUST try the Steve's Special as a patty melt. Soooo tasty.

[CSO to Pilot]

So this thread took a turn for strange...

Of all the navs and other cross-flow guys at UPT, it took them a good 3-4 years to get selected. The AF isn't going to send you to Nav school to turn around and then send you to UPT after you finish your FTU and move to your operational squadron. Most everyone I talk with said they work their butts off to be the best at their job their first assignment and then applied. Everyone that is a cross-flow from other career fields are junior Captains, so I would say you have a little while before you have a chance.

I guess that kinda sucks for me then. By the time I'm in my MWS for 3-4 years, I will be over 30 and beyond the cutoff for UPT. That was the whole point of this post to find out what else is possible. Hell even a reserve/guard spot, whether part or full time, would be just fine for me. I have every intention of working my butt off here and at my FTU. Its not like I'm slacking off at all, I'm working hard and taking every bit of info in that I can. I am just trying to find out other's experiences beyond "work hard". I'm speaking of other avenues to accomplish my goal or any other advice.

You should fly helicopters.

Those terrify me. But honestly, I'd do it if it means flying.

I thought you had to do your job for like 3 years before you can apply to switch jobs? Maybe that's for non rated officers applying to go rated, I'm not sure.

But if that is the case, I would agree with Rainman and say just take the most bad ass thing you can get now and make the best of it. If you really don't think you'll be satisfied sitting in the back of a frickin strike eagle dropping bombs on shit, I think you're just being greedy bro

Greedy? Gotcha, ok well if I am ever an Eagle WSO and you happen to be flying some heavy, gimme a call and I'll trade you.

I do not see it as being greedy. I see it as having a goal and knowing what makes you happy. We only have one life to live, if you're not doing what you're passionate about, you're wrong. Thats what I'm trying to get at. Sorry if I'd rather be in the front seat than the back. You're entitled to your opinion.

FIFY...seriously, nsplayer's comment was spot on. If becoming a pilot is your goal, you have to kick ass now as a CSO to have any kind of chance. Go with the mission that interests you, and you'll succeed.

They are all "interesting" in the way that intro to chem was interesting back in college. Its ooohs and ahhhhs, but its not the "holy crap this is amazing $*** that I want to do every waking moment for the rest of my life and sleep when I die" stuff. Thats how flying feels to me lol.

I really appreciate all of the input here, but the sad fact is like I said previously... after finishing up here I do not have the years left to be able to apply to UPT. What really brought this on is me starting a family, getting married soon (no kids in the near future), etc. I am trying to think down the road at what happens next. Sure I'm happy as long as I'm in a jet, but being a CSO won't enable me to fly later on if the air force decides my services are no longer needed or something. Its not like I can go to the airlines or a charter company and be like "hey, I used to be a back-seater. Can I be a nav for you?" Yea, we know how that would turn out. It might be looking at the negative side of things, but I'm sure those of you with families can at least understand my perspective. Thats why I'm asking for advice specifically regarding my age and timeframe I have to get into UPT.

[CSO to Pilot]

So I sit here now in Pensacola at UCT (do they even have an official name for this training yet?) and I feel its time to really start figuring out which road to take that would best get me to UPT. I have roughly 150 hours of flight time, instrument rating, 98 PCSM, etc, but a crappy semester from my freshman year is what killed it for me (that, and a brand new PAS at my det for the semester of boards, but I can hardly shift even a majority of the blame).

As of right now I'm 26 and will be finishing up UCT later this year and thats (hopefully) where the process starts. I, like many on this forum, am dedicated to making it to UPT. I spoke with my Flt/CC about this because he went through the same deal. He asked what I thought I would be, a pilot, a fighter pilot, or a pilot who flew fighters (he drove the A10). I wanted to make that snap decision and say fighter pilot, I mean who wouldn't? Its badass and that childhood dream kind of stuff. But then it occurred to me that even in the T6 I wasn't enjoying it like I should. I absolutely love flying and everything about it, but I don't know if its a control issue or pride or what, but if I'm not the one flying, its just not right to me. I've come to the realization that I would just be a pilot (in answer to his question). I can whole-heartedly say that I would RATHER fly a C-5, KC-135, or whatever is the most opposite end of the spectrum from a fighter, than be a WSO on an F-15E. I'd rather be in control of a heavy than ride in the back of a fighter. Thats not to say I wouldn't prefer flying an F-16 or something of that nature, but hopefully you get my point.

Time to get off my soap box now and get down to it...

Like I said, I'm 26. When I graduate I'll almost be 27. That scares the crap out of me due to the age limit of 30 for starting UPT. Sure there are waivers, but in today's Air Force? Really?

So where can I go from here? I do not want to try to blow my own horn here (sts) but as I sit now I am right near the top of my class and probably have the choice of airframe to go to provided its in the drop. Right now my plan is to go C-130 since that has the shortest FTU so that I can become operational and try to apply to the AD boards right away, instead of going F-15E WSO and having nearly 2 years of follow-on.

So any of you guys out there have any knowledge in this matter? Any idea the earliest possible I can start applying for the boards? Or should I even now start networking at some of the reserve/guard units so I have options on the other end of training? And is there even an option for a switch mid-training? Hell if they ripped me out of UCT today and said I was gonna start UPT in a week and pack my crap and get going I would be at U-Haul within the hour. But thats not happening.

If you've stuck with me this far I appreciate it, and any advice you may have to offer. I just hoped to express my desire to make it to UPT and not come across as some bitter kid who didn't get what he thought he deserved. I want to earn this.

[NAS Pensacola information]

Well getting in touch with anyone worth while at PCola is almost impossible. Damn place doesn't even have a base operator...

I talked to Shelly over at Balfour Beatty and it sounded promising. She actually clarified that for the CSO students they DO have openings at the on-base townhomes (what they called them) that the Air Force specifically went to them and reserved for their students. The entire place used to be open to first come-first serve type of reservations, but when the AF moved down there they laid claim to a number of condos just for us. She initially told me there was quite a wait for housing for PCSing CGOs, but after she found out that I would be going to AF CSO school she informed me that I could get in easily.

I also asked about living off base, which she told me was an option. I went further to clarify if I could only live off base if the on-base housing was full and she said no. I was informed that you have the option for either and are not forced to live in the townhomes.

I plan to live in them anyway as I have several friends from my FTU as well as my ROTC Det that will be down there that I can room with. Even with a 3br townhome with only one other roommate, its only ~$700/mo and you keep the rest of your BAH.

Pocket $300/mo? Yes, please