Reserve vs. Guard

[Guest dbchandler1]

I am a non prior service guy looking to get a flying slot with either the reserve or the guard and I was wondering if anyone could tell me the difference between the two as far as commitment and deployments are concerned?

[JS]

In my limited exposure to both types of UPT studs I would say that the guard seems to hire a lot of studs for pilot training who came from within the unit as prior enlisted. The Reserves seems to take more off the street guys (many of whom seem to have zillions of flying hours already). Another big difference is that the Guard obviously has more fighter units, but they are statistically more difficult to get into due to increased competition. If you want heavies, I would say go Reserve.

The commitment is the same (I assume you are talking about the 10 year commitment after UPT and not weekly/montly commitments - those vary by unit and airframe).

As far as deployments there is really no definite answer as to who deploys more. Guard and Reserve are an integral part of the total force and they rotate in and out of deployments about as much as active duty (some units deploy more than their AD counterparts). Again, it depends on your unit and airframe, among other things.

[Guest AV8NSP]

Well, they also may be referring to the "seasoning" period. Each guard/reserve unit has a specific seasoning period where UPT/FTU grads will remain on active duty while gaining some experience in the aircraft. THe specific seasoning period differs by airframe, and I think it is detailed specifically in an AFI. As an example, the seasoning period for my unit (KC-135) is 30-45 days, while F16 and F15 units are well over 200 days. That difference is mainly due to the fact that heavy folks are seasoning you as a copliot while fighter units are seasoning you as an AC.

[JS]

Originally posted by dbchandler1:

Thanks for the quick reply, I was just wondering because I had been told that if you went with the reserves there was an active duty commitment after your flight training is completed.

It depends on your definition of "active duty commitment." Kind of like the dude above mentioned about seasoning, you will be on active duty orders for several months after graduating from your RTU. This is of course after you complete your 2 years of active duty for OTS/AMS/UPT/RTU and any casual in between. So basically for the first 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years after you start training there will be no difference between you and your active duty buddies.

[ecugringo]

im currently applying to several ang units. i was wondering if anyone off the street can apply to the reserve as well the same way one does to the guard? if you can where can i find info on the process?

thanks

[Guest kmgraham79]

ecugringo-

The reserves take pilot candidates off the streets just as the Guard does. The process is similar, but not identical. You will have to go to UPT boards and all the fun stuff of the Guard. The major difference b/w the two is that each guard squadron has final say on which candidates it wants whereas the reserves will sponsor you as their UPT candidate and send your package to the Reserve's HQ in Georgia. Then you will have to meet w/ another UPT board at Reserve HQ. This UPT board at Reserve HQ will decide your fate. However, I've been told by some of the pilots at McGuire AFB that they rarely go against a squadron's choice of candidate. The thing that's nice in the application process with the Reserves as compared to the Guard, the Reserves will have you take your Class I physical before you meet with each squadron's board. So if you pass the physical you have a leg up on everyone else who goes to a Guard board. With the Guard, they have no idea if you'll pass the physical...they may require you to get an FAA Class I Physical before the UPT board meets, but there's no guarantee that you will pass the AF Class I Physical. Having the AF Class I Physical could be the tie-breaker b/w you and another candidate.

Go to the following link to find a recruiter near you: http://locator.afreserve.com/. As a warning though, don't mention the fact that you're looking at the Guard in addition to the Reserves, the recruiter won't like hearing this. The Reserve squadron you interview w/ will probably understand if you're looking at Guard unit...I'm sure they'll encourage you to...they realize how competative it is.

Let me know how things go for you. If you have anymore questions, click on my baseops.net idea for my email address and send me an email.

[ 27. March 2005, 12:50: Message edited by: kmgraham79 ]

[Guest JArcher00]

From experience, do not go through a recruiter. Go directly to the squadron. The pilots will give you the most current info on how to apply. What it comes down to is getting them the "package" which includes resume, trasncripts, test scores, and yes a picture. I never talked to a recruiter and got 9 interview offers. The recruiter does not have your best interest or time in mind. You do.

[Guest kmgraham79]

Take RedDog's advice...avoid the recruiters. They absolutely don't have your best interest in mind.

If your still wondering how to get in contact with different squadrons, there's a book you can buy that will give you all of the reserves units contact info. The book is called "Flying in the Guard and Reserve". It's outdated but it still has some valuable info. You can get it at the following website: http://www.jet-jobs.com/publications/guard.html

[ecugringo]

hey thanks guys, i know how to get in touch with the guard units, i was just curious about the reserve. are they about the same or is the one better than the other?

is there a way fo find their info online? or just through the bookd?

[Guest kmgraham79]

RedDog could give you better info than I could regarding which one is better. I don't think you could say one is better than the other. It's really all a matter of preference. The thing that's great about the Guard as opposed to the Reserve is that you know which aircraft you're going to fly upon completion of your training. In the Reserve, there's always a possibility that they will switch you up to another unit. The Reserve HQ has the ultimate say in who gets assigned to which unit, whereas the Guard wing or squadron you interview with has final say. It might also come down to your preference of aircraft. If you want fighters, you best bet is the Guard. If you want KC-10's, C-17's or C-5's, there aren't many Guard units that fly these weapons platforms, but many Reserve units do. The Guard however does fly many KC-135's.

[ecugringo]

well like i said there are several guard units i was applying to, but there are two reserve units that interested me. one was a c-130 unit in pittsburgh where i live now. the other was an f-16 unit in fla. i figured it might be worth the shot.

i didnt realize in the reserve you could get moved to a different unit.

thanks again

[Guest kmgraham79]

Check both units out. It will be extremely difficult getting a spot with the F-16 Reserve unit. I'm not sure if they'll even take guys of the street. They're mostly former AD guys.

I wouldn't think of it as being switched to a different unit, but realize that your UPT board interview w/ that unit is not final. AF Reserve HQ at Warner AFB has final say in where you go.

Contact those two units and get some specifics. They'll give you the info you need to know. Don't take my word as final...find out from the units themselves. I'm in the same position you are...looking for a job. I'm not the ultimate reference.

[Guest SnakeT38]

RedDog could give you better info than I could regarding which one is better. I don't think you could say one is better than the other. It's really all a matter of preference. The thing that's great about the Guard as opposed to the Reserve is that you know which aircraft you're going to fly upon completion of your training. In the Reserve, there's always a possibility that they will switch you up to another unit. The Reserve HQ has the ultimate say in who gets assigned to which unit, whereas the Guard wing or squadron you interview with has final say. It might also come down to your preference of aircraft. If you want fighters, you best bet is the Guard. If you want KC-10's, C-17's or C-5's, there aren't many Guard units that fly these weapons platforms, but many Reserve units do. The Guard however does fly many KC-135's.

This is not entirely true. As to Guard vs Reserve,

you almost never hear of a USAFR guy getting "switched" by the USAFR UNLESS he is going to a fighter unit and does not get T-38 qualed for some reason and has to go to the T-1 program........the Guard does the EXACT same thing. Sponsored guys going either to ANG or USAFR boards are being looked at to SEE IF THEY WON'T COMPLETE UPT............the BS is 98% over

if your package goes up.

As to recruiters..........I agree with most sentiments on here..........they know almost nothing about the UPT slots, especially in the USAFR, in the ANG, the recruiter is sitting in the units buildings AND recruits for THAT unit.

In the USAFR, they are assigned by regions and recruit for many units. Once you have got initial paperwork together as far as USAFR goes the "recruiter" is the OFFICIAL secretary for your package, he schedules physical, assembles test scores, and the rest of your materials for the package that will go to the board........think of them as your PERSONAL secretary, THATS ALL THEY ARE.

[Guest SnakeT38]

ecugringo..........the object is to FIRST find

a unit with interest to send you to UPT, THEN, once everyone agrees that you are "DaMan" then they start the admin stuff........this doesn't mean you are "in" but your foot is in the door so to speak. As each item required for the board is completed satisfactorily then your "odds" for going increase. About the only thing that will illuminate you AFTER your board but before UPT would be a problem with the law.

[hindsight2020]

Since I've been at it trying to land a spot with Guard units for a while now and somebody mentioned the options of active duty flying and Reserve flying, I was wondering how much merit and worth would shooting at the Reserves with an "unsponsored" package have?

Personally, I did not know one could even do this (once again thank you Baseops for being the mother of all intel sources :D ). It now sounds like a possibility since I already run a de facto Kinkos from my living room, expanding the mass mailing to the Reserve wouldn't hurt.

From the posts before, you guys mentioned what looks like a similar process to the Guard... and I do agree with the comment made regarding recruiters. However, I feel that I would perhaps be better served by shooting at the HQ 'unsponsored' and getting it over with (fully understanding I would have to go shopping for units afterwards), rather than having to cater to all these units before even knowing if they are giving me serious consideration (read Guard process).

Any merits to the "unsponsored" package? Is it something only Mr. recruiter man would be able to help me with?

P.S. I think I have everything for a reserve board package, except the FC1, but I rather consult with you folks than the recruiter, although I'll give him a call tomorrow to let him know I want to shoot an app to HQ. Thanks!

[Guest JArcher00]

Everyone has valid points. I only got sponsored by 1 reserve unit, the rest were slots with Guard unit. The one thing that is good about the Guard is that after the interview they let you know in a week or so that you have the slot. The Reserves tell you "we will sponsor you" but then you have to wait until the Reserve board meets and take a chance. The majority get picked but if there are 150 slots and 200 sposored people you better hope you are not the bottom 50 candidates for that board. I like the the fact that the state owns me not the feds ....if you see what I mean. I think the state keeps their interest in the unit versus the fed with the reserves many units. Enough from me now. Also, check websites. My squadron has info online about interview dates, etc. Later

[ 28. March 2005, 16:13: Message edited by: RedDog ]

[Guest SnakeT38]

Everyone has valid points. I only got sponsored by 1 reserve unit, the rest were slots with Guard unit. The one thing that is good about the Guard is that after the interview they let you know in a week or so that you have the slot. The Reserves tell you "we will sponsor you" but then you have to wait until the Reserve board meets and take a chance. The majority get picked but if there are 150 slots and 200 sposored people you better hope you are not the bottom 50 candidates for that board.

Not sure about this statement either......most units don't send a person to a board unless THEY,

the unit have a training slot......the USAFR

usually has their class dates lined up long before AD. If you are unsponsored I don't think you have to go "shopping" that much either, Robins should tell you what units will need someone. Usually units that have multiple openings

for whatever reason will pick up an unsponsored UPT candidate.

[Guest JArcher00]

Snake..We may want to check on this b/c since I am fully aware the the Guard process, I thought that the slot were given from the Reserve command versus each Guard unit. Therefore a unit can sponsor a person with no cost to them since I believe they do not pay for training like the Guard unit does. That is where the competition comes into play. I am almost 100% positive...mabye more like 95%. Someone with more Reserve vs. Guard experience, please clear this up.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Red Dog...........I only did 26 years total,

with 19 of that in the USAFR AND the GUARD,

the Reserve units start the process.........they

have THEIR OWN TRAINING SLOTS..........doesn't matter who pays for anything. My own daughter went through this very process and my contemporaries that are still in are the ones sitting on the board.

[hindsight2020]

The results of my morning......So I had a wild goose chase this morning looking for contact numbers for Reserve recruiters.... First the recruting hotline. Guy asked me if I wanted to join the reserves. I said, no, I need the number for a recruiter to set up a package for the pilot board. He said he didn't have that kind of info! I was like WTF...

So he gives me the number of AFR Personnel in Denver...I already knew that wasn't gonna help. So I call them and of course, they can't help, they give me a couple of numbers including one particular unit. Then I call the unit, they don't have the numbers.

So finally I look in the yellow pages and found them on my own, go figure. The first office won't pick up the phone, then the other does pick up the phone and off I go in my little story. At the end of which the recruiter goes "so...how did you get all this information?" I wanted to say "Well, don't you know about BASEOPS.NET?!?!" but refrained. At that point he gave me the POC for a person who could help me.

At any rate long story short, happy to report that they got people specifically for officer/pilot affairs now. The pro is that the guy knows what I was talking about, the con is that like a busy manager he has 20 other clients. :D

He was helpful as hell though, wants to set up the package for the Fall board and says he'll try to get me a sponsorship. I mentioned the unsponsored scenario and he didn't seem too optimistic about pursuing that route.I gave him my frame preferences and I guess the ball is rolling now. I will still press for my package to be sent if he's unable to facilitate a sponsorship but he seemed optimistic about finding me a sponsor after he gathered my info, which is nice for a change.

P.S.the intel on last board was pretty dead on, he gave me the same numbers that were quoted on here.

happy flying folks :cool:

[Guest A36pilot]

HEy guys, whats up... got a quick ? for yall. So, im one of the guys who is getting the shaft for the rated AD boards that have been cancelled until next year. I was wondering, if anyone has the name of a search topic for me, what all do you have to do to become a guard/reserve pilot.

[ 08. June 2005, 17:38: Message edited by: A36pilot ]

[Guest alohastyle22]

To become a guard pilot use baseops to find the different units that are hiring and contact them to find out if or when they are interviewing. You can also go to the ANG main website and look up units and get their contact info. Contact as many units as you can and get your packets out to them. Find the unit with the aircraft you want to fly and stick with it!

[ 09. June 2005, 19:46: Message edited by: alohastyle22 ]

[Guest AirGuardian]

Getting in contact with the units to meet their board deadlines for paperwork is a must.

Knowing what is required by each unit is a must. Understanding that it is the most competitive way to gain a flying career is a must.

Search function is a must. Just skim and read all you can and follow the crowd!

Note: "getting the shaft" I'm sure the AF had you in mind particularly when they decide to put it to you directly...just pushing ya a bit, but ya gotta realize timing is everthing and Guard units are being swamped with applicants - especially with the Brac thing going on, even before all the cards have fallen... Good luck!

Not even in the AD yet, and they come running toward the former stepchild when the Big Blue can't deliver. If I had known about the Guard things would have been a bit different, but it's smooth right now! Activated is better than jobless anyday! Godspeed with your endeavor!

Read, read, read, keep at it!

[Guest AirGuardian]

OK, I kinda get what you might be asking...

I'm sure there are other scenarios, but here's a couple.

For the Guard in particular, some units have AGR positions and others have Technician positions. And several have both. They are both full-time positions, but the AGR is the equivalent of being almost like Active Duty aside from moving all the time and other characteristics. But the pay is the same... which is rank/time in service based(AGR).

Whereas;

Technicians like me are basically Government employees/civil service on the GS, GM, etc. payscale accomplishing 40 hour work weeks with comp time, etc. When drill is being accomplished we fall into the Military payscale based on rank and time in service. We have several ways of getting paid, but that's waaay too in depth for this conversation right now.

Here's one other scenario where you can enjoy the best of both worlds. Many units have an Active Duty Liason/Advisor assigned to the unit. These guys are doing a 3 year or so tour with an ANG unit somewhere getting paid by the Big Blue AF, but flying, training, enjoying the Guard lifestyle if they so choose. Not only do most of them enjoy it, but they end up leaving the AF and staying with the unit, or getting sucked up by another Guard unit somewhere else. What you know is good, who you know is better usually!

Anyway, those are the three types of "FULL TIMERS" on the Guard side of the house. Reservists have their ARTS, but no AGR's I'm pretty sure!

Oh yeah, get activated as C17Driver said and you'll be on AD again like mwa... Hope that didn't confuse too much!

Note: Very, very hard to land an AGR or Technician(Full Time) position in most any unit! Averaging 5-10 part-timers for every full timer usually...

[ 10. June 2005, 18:35: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[ChkHandleDn]

I just want to get a general idea of what units look for on the "paper side" of the selection process.

For those of you that have ever been selected to interview:

-What were your PCSM/AFOQT scores?

-Were you coming from AD, civilian, or in-unit?

-How many flight hours and ratings did you have?

-What section of your resume do you think were stressed the most by the units before you were invited to the interview?

-Do you think they care about age (except the no older than 30)?

Thanks in advance!