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Promotion and PRF Information


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34 minutes ago, pawnman said:

"Are you ready to perform in the next grade?  Let's go back 8 years to your SOS performance and find out"

I am starting to lose track how many times I have now seen officers who have only been stratified at the CGO level i.e. their O-5 PRFs were written when they were senior captains, surpass above average performing FGOs.  This is the most frustrating part of the whole promotion process.  FGO and CGO have totally different levels of expectations.  This is what makes me believe the only real thing the board looks at is the bottomline strat and where it came from.  They could not care less about an officer's upbringing.  It also makes me extremely cynical about the new promotion system.  Why would it be any different if there are only two lines.  Certainly since strats and DPs still exist on the PRF, what will drive senior raters to more closely examine an officer's record?  Its emblematic of our culture where 15 second news clips suffice for being "well informed".  

My solution would be to scrap the PRF system altogether.  Let the full record speak for itself.  

 

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19 minutes ago, dream big said:

Asking for a friend..!

DP = 99.9% promoted

P = ~50% promoted

Doesn't matter what else is on there, P vs DP is the biggest discriminator. No matter what anyone says, it's all a guess how "strong" a P PRF is.

Most O's (aircrew anyway) are well above average and Big Blue magnifies the smallest difference to be able to draw a cut line somewhere. It sucks that PRFs and OPRs are have unwritten rules only the select few are allowed to know, but honestly most non-military family, friends, future employers won't know and don't care.

From presonal experience, don't get your ego wrapped up in the PRF and the board results. It doesn't define who you are as a person.

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I’ve got some 1BPZ PRFs that made it.  Here is what an HPO looks like   

 

DG ROTC, DG SOS (#7/800); WIC Paper (#1/130); Gp FGOY (#1/101)

#9/160 CGOs (Gp/CC)

#5/250 Capts (Wg/CC)

#1/160 Capts (Deployed/CC)

#5/180 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/150 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/220 Majs (Wg/CC

#1/60 BPZ eligibles; best I have; Sq/CC after CAF fellowship; SDE; JCS. dP

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6 hours ago, dream big said:

Well hopefully now that they eliminated “school selects” off the board; they stop using early CGO performance to determine HPO status, cautiously optimistic rated performance boards will also shift what we value in promotions.

Question for the grey beards, how much do CGO strats matter for an 0-5 board traditionally?  I.e 1-2 average CGO strats, tons of IP/combat time, no CGO awards, late WIC grad and then a ton of major strats with Group and Wing level jobs? Asking for a friend..!

My PRF is right up there.  One CGO strat, tons of instructor/evaluator strats, lots of combat and instructor time, and some major/FGO strats in the last three years... Not promoted.

I wish your friend luck.  Maybe breaking the LAF into multiple categories will help.

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I’ve got some 1BPZ PRFs that made it.  Here is what an HPO looks like   
 
DG ROTC, DG SOS (#7/800); WIC Paper (#1/130); Gp FGOY (#1/101)
#9/160 CGOs (Gp/CC)
#5/250 Capts (Wg/CC)
#1/160 Capts (Deployed/CC)
#5/180 Majs (Wg/CC)
#1/150 Majs (Wg/CC)
#1/220 Majs (Wg/CC
#1/60 BPZ eligibles; best I have; Sq/CC after CAF fellowship; SDE; JCS. dP

DG ROTC? What in the foooook? Really?




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38 minutes ago, bennynova said:

It’s super important; the earlier in your life, the better; it trumps Lt Strats 

Once you get on the HPO train, it's tough to get derailed.  The sooner you get on that HPO train, the better.

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22 hours ago, Danger41 said:

 the Bobs at corporate want?

They want younger versions of themselves.

The system worked for them, therefore the system must be good.

I quote again from The Talking Heads, "Same as it ever was..."

The new and improved two-line PRF is a sop so that it looks like "they are doing something."  And for the drones at A1, et al, it was a way to get The Man off their collective back and earn themselves one of those coveted strats.

This is no different than the switch from the old weighted OERs to the new and improved "meets standard" OPR/PRF, and so on back to 1947.  And before that back to the founding of our military officer corps.  Largely, who you know along with luck/timing rules and always will.

Make informed decisions knowing the rules of the game whether written or not.  

Edited by brickhistory
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2 hours ago, di1630 said:

DG ROTC? What in the foooook? Really?

1 strat that captures 4 years against your peers?  I’d buy it over SOS.

Wasn’t there talk of moving officers to a static closeout?  Seems like that would close the loopholes on the strat game even further and allow everyone to be racked and stacked equitably once a year.

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9 hours ago, bennynova said:

I’ve got some 1BPZ PRFs that made it.  Here is what an HPO looks like   

 

DG ROTC, DG SOS (#7/800); WIC Paper (#1/130); Gp FGOY (#1/101)

#9/160 CGOs (Gp/CC)

#5/250 Capts (Wg/CC)

#1/160 Capts (Deployed/CC)

#5/180 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/150 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/220 Majs (Wg/CC

#1/60 BPZ eligibles; best I have; Sq/CC after CAF fellowship; SDE; JCS. dP

I had 2 consecutive #1/150 Majs from Wg CC plus #3/270 CGOs and #2/80 Jt O-4s at a Joint Command, finishing behind only an Army infantrymen on the way to Battalion Command; same push, no commission DG, no SOS DG and I did not make it 1BPZ.  If there was such thing as a late bloomer, it would be me -- truth is you can't make BPZ as a late bloomer.  Fine by me.  7 more years until check of the month club.  

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On 7/30/2019 at 4:04 PM, drewpey said:

prf.thumb.png.012827838aeeb1ae7a53f067a1e1cd5c.png

Holy shit, this is what OPRs are "supposed" to look like?   AD kids being sent to Guard units as a first assignment are FUCKED!   Well...besides pretty much having a guaranteed job in a few years when they can get out.  

 

Quote

Not having a MSM going into IPZ as a major is unfortunate

I guess I don't understand this and it seems to be a complete devaluation of medals.  I once got a MSM (as a Capt) because the OG at the time was passed over for O-6 the first time for not having a MSM.  A few months later, the whole damn squadron got MSMs so this didn't happen to any of us.  I guess he thought he was "taking care" of us.  Fast forward a few years and we get a WG/CC from another base.  Now a Major, he loses it when he sees that I have 2xMSMs and no Commendation medal.  Guess who now has a commendation medal.  Again, what a fucked up system!  

Note:  Before this I had never heard that it was customary that Capt get AFCM and Majors get MSMs.

Edited by SocialD
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1 hour ago, SocialD said:

Holy shit, this is what OPRs are "supposed" to look like?   AD kids being sent to Guard units as a first assignment are FUCKED!   Well...besides pretty much having a guaranteed job in a few years when they can get out.  

PRFs, not OPRs.  Each of those strats is likely from a single OPR.

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On 10/7/2018 at 9:15 PM, MDDieselPilot said:

Sounds like lots of us are in the same boat. 

I've had consistent strats since my 2nd OPR, several yearly's, 3 FGOQs up to the 2-star level, 2x DG , was an evaluator, 1500 combat hrs, never bought a checkride downgrade and no PFT busts.  I honestly thought I was squarely in the middle of the bell curve.  I guess I can GTFO, though.. which I will gladly do.

Haven't been in this thread since I was passed over IPZ last year, but I got picked up 1 above (O5). The O6 who made it happen (I think) moved so I haven't had a chance to ask him how he did it, but I'm convinced he went to our 2 star SR and made a case for me.. my record definitely didn't change 😄. Oh well, more money I suppose. 

Edited by MDDieselPilot
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I just did a PRF last year for my IMA, he was somewhat familiar with them.   Why are they so uncommon in whatever world you are In?
 
also, where/when do we find out results of the 0-5 reserve board?


ANG. Probably because we do Position Vacancy and ROPMA promotions which doesn’t exist on AD.



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8 minutes ago, bennynova said:

I just did a PRF last year for my IMA, he was somewhat familiar with them.   Why are they so uncommon in whatever world you are In?

 

also, where/when do we find out results of the 0-5 reserve board?

What herkbum said.  PV and ROPMA are how we get promoted.  We have to have up to date OPRs but no PRFs (maybe for ROPMA).  Our base has recently started requiring interviews for O-5, but not for O-4 or below.  Herk may have better insight into what happens next   All I know is it's sent up to state or NGB then it's usually 6-9 months before federal recognition happens which means you can pin on.  

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1 hour ago, BattleRattle said:

In the ANG, PRFs are required for ROPMA to O-5 (pretty sure for ROPMA to O-4 as well).

I recently-ish did ROPMA to O4 and did not have a PRF that I as aware of. Then again, my old unit also sent me to that board without telling me (I was under the mistaken impression I had another year), and also with my package (sts) missing my 2x latest OPRs. 😆

Aaaand I still got picked up so hey, anyone with a pulse has a chance in the Guard baby! It was a 96% selection rate for my AFSC at the time (12S) on that board, so I'm glad to know I'm not in the bottom 4% of my peer group.

That being said, while I did get picked up, I also max performed O3 by doing the full 7 years which was obv less $$ in the bank and also put me well "behind" where my year group bros who stayed on active duty were. ROPMA giveth and ROPMA maketh thee wait I guess is the moral of the story.

Another random datapoint from the peanut gallery: 7.269 years active duty (AFSOC) and 4.69 years in the Guard (AFSOC and now ACC) and I've never seen a PRF. Only people I know who had were either execs or were themselves being promoted to O4/O5 and were "doing it live."

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I just did a PRF last year for my IMA, he was somewhat familiar with them.   Why are they so uncommon in whatever world you are In?
 
also, where/when do we find out results of the 0-5 reserve board?


Last year it was released the 3rd week of August. Expecting the same this year.
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What herkbum said.  PV and ROPMA are how we get promoted.  We have to have up to date OPRs but no PRFs (maybe for ROPMA).  Our base has recently started requiring interviews for O-5, but not for O-4 or below.  Herk may have better insight into what happens next   All I know is it's sent up to state or NGB then it's usually 6-9 months before federal recognition happens which means you can pin on.  


Promos up to Maj (since all rated positions are Maj positions)-individual is recommended for promo and signed/submitted by SQ/CC to FSS. Promo then usually goes to JFHQ for state approval. JFHQ then sends to NGB for Fed Rec. Once Fed Rec approved, NGB sends promo order back down thru JFHQ to FSS and SQ/CC. This usually occurs monthly.


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On 7/30/2019 at 3:04 PM, drewpey said:

Not having a MSM going into IPZ as a major is unfortunate

Fact.  My friend - a boarded cyberspace operations sq DO.  He led the unit through some of the missions I've posted in the Cyber thread.  You know, the ones in the new york times, and CYBERCOM is briefing Congress about....MSM didn't make it into his records (shitty CC didn't bother to make sure it happened)...passed over.

Thankfully he's hitting the supplemental...but really?

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