Promotion and PRF Information

[panchbarnes]

Maverick, you will most likely get promoted. Depends on your PRF push line and how well your OPRs read. If you are not a top half performer in your field, your supervisors and commanders may have put things like "potential" and "continue to challenge" and "MAJCOM staff next." Those would hurt a bit. You have a solid record, you are in a good job and you have plenty of combat/deployment time. With the AAD/PME easy kills done, and no real derogatory info in the record, you should get promoted. Commanders and bosses can't always tell you because they don't know. I scratch my head at some board decisions, but they get it right most of the time.

I'm not sure what is more depressing. A. Random FGO asking the internet for assessment of him getting promoted to O-5 and accepting random GO's assessment to feel better about himself. Or B. Random GO revealing the truth behind OPR pushlines.

Maverick77, aka Random FGO, don't you have real life mentors that can give you the same feedback behind closed doors? This is kind of pathetic, typically, only pilot/officer hopefuls ask these kind of silly internet questions. We CGOs see O-4s/O-5s like you at work and just laugh behind your back because you are no different than us. It's all about making rank and 20 years baby! Have some dignity bro...

If "MAJCOM staff next" is such a bad thing, does that mean the FGOs on the staff are a bunch of losers? Hmmm...I do see the staff O-5s surfing NIPRnet all day and get bullied around by contractors and GS-13s on a daily-basis, so it is all making sense now.

Pentagon Gods, I hope you all are reading the posts here and in the ACP threads. This is what the USAF officer corps and promotion system have evolve to.

Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do? Seems like just hollow words to our AF "leaders."

[zach braff]

I'm not sure what is more depressing. A. Random FGO asking the internet for assessment of him getting promoted to O-5 and accepting random GO's assessment to feel better about himself. Or B. Random GO revealing the truth behind OPR pushlines.

Maverick77, aka Random FGO, don't you have real life mentors that can give you the same feedback behind closed doors? This is kind of pathetic, typically, only pilot/officer hopefuls ask these kind of silly internet questions. We CGOs see O-4s/O-5s like you at work and just laugh behind your back because you are no different than us. It's all about making rank and 20 years baby! Have some dignity bro...

If "MAJCOM staff next" is such a bad thing, does that mean the FGOs on the staff are a bunch of losers? Hmmm...I do see the staff O-5s surfing NIPRnet all day and get bullied around by contractors and GS-13s on a daily-basis, so it is all making sense now.

Pentagon Gods, I hope you all are reading the posts here and in the ACP threads. This is what the USAF officer corps and promotion system have evolve to.

Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do? Seems like just hollow words to our AF "leaders."

Shut up dude. You're trying way too hard to impress the "cool kids" with this post.

But I'll bite.

1) No I don't think our boy has that mentor - he said he's at a joint gig. Other services don't always get our secret code. And even if he does - the game changes all the time, particularly at the FGO level. I've got excellent mentors who are straight up with me that they don't know what's going on with this stuff sometimes.

2) Nice quote about core values at the end. They are clearly important to you as you laugh behind other people's backs as you cite in your post.

zb

[Maverick77]

I expected at least one or two douchebaggery responses to my post. I am honestly surprised it took this long, but PanchBarnes, aka Random CGO, did not disappoint.

Zach hit the nail on the head. There are some Air Force mentors here, but none that have served on a board or could give me any good information. I read every single post in this thread before posting my question and know that there are a few people here who have actually served on these boards or have looked at tons of these PRFs that could give me better insight.

As far as your swipe at Staff personnel, I can guarantee you they are not the only ones you’ll catch surfing the NIPR at work. You pretty much described the Air Force as a whole. Just because you catch someone on espn.com doesn’t mean they are a slacker, many people just need to take 5 min every once in a while to decompress from working. Think of it like a smoke break. However, I am not afforded that opportunity where I work. We have SIPR at each desk and most of our work is done on that and higher enclaves. We only have two NIPR machines for the whole section. I get on there about every other day for about 5 min to check work email.

[panchbarnes]

Your first point is right on. This site is my main source of information regarding anything AF since there are no other AF officers where I work. I'm glad people post questions on here and others try to help them out.

Agree that this site has good info, the original question was essentially "is my package good enough to be part of that 44%?" Well, no one knows for sure. What if the response from liquid and other people was "it doesn't look good dude"? How will you go on feeling about yourself and your career? That's why it's such a silly question on the internet. Your supervisor or mentor *should* know the answer or find a way to track down the answer for u. If they can't or won't then there is a breakdown in leadership.

"Majcom next" was not a dig at maverick77, just my observation. Maybe I am the only one that think how ridiculous things are.

Not trying to impress any cool kids, just frustrated at what I see on a day to day basis and the teal colored pop ups from the past couple of days.

Edited July 4, 2013 by PanchBarnes

[Skitzo]

Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do? Seems like just hollow words to our AF "leaders."

The problem is that the core values as I understand them to be were created during a time where a rash of individuals made a rash of bad decisions.

Sheila Widnall's answer was the core values. Please correct me if I am wrong.

They also found a nifty way to place the blame of shitty deals onto the individual. Before it was simply needs of the Air Force. Now you are guilty of not embodying "service before self."

The core values have always been more about guiding the conduct of the individual than the institution as a whole.

As to the secret decoder ring for OPRs please liquid divulge it. Is Air Staff a good push?

Edited July 4, 2013 by Skitzo

[matmacwc]

3 word post though...is it really him?

That's how PYB started back as CannonCrashPad, plus Rainman isn't around to scare him off either. On to your regularly scheduled (for fuck sake the Major promotion rate is in the 90ish percentile, get over it) programming.

[Maverick77]

For the record I did not have MAJCOM Next on any of my push statements. It was Sq CC/ Developmental Education type push satements.

[Champ Kind]

HAF is a tier 2-ish push (top 10-15%), behind JCS (top 1%) and Jt Staff (between the two).

Staff pushes generally directly correlate to your highest level strat.

FML that I know this.

[olevelo]

At what point does the push really matter (for O-5)? First O-4 OPR? Last OPR before IPZ? In other words, if you "only" get a MAJCOM push on your first O-4 OPR is that a relative killer?

[Skitzo]

I would think they start to matter earlier than that... But I'll wait for liquids words. So I guess being a 2004 year group guy with an air staff push is relatively good?

[Champ Kind]

At what point does the push really matter (for O-5)? First O-4 OPR? Last OPR before IPZ? In other words, if you "only" get a MAJCOM push on your first O-4 OPR is that a relative killer?

Starts to matter at around the mid-Capt range.

[osulax05]

Champ shacked it... Your strats as a Capt definitely count. These strats drive your DT vector and your push lines as a Maj are consistent with your vector 99% of the time.

[Liquid]

JCS/OSD is the best, then joint staff, then Air Staff, then MAJCOM. I've seen some recent speeding on OPRs and PRFs with push lines so MAJCOM next stands out as low performer. Too many top pushes (speeding) and the senior rater loses credibility at the board. Sq//CC push is good, usually a top third performer. The words "definitely promote" are better than "promote" on the push line. All CCs should know this, not a big secret. Mav should get promoted if there is no derogatory info in the record. LORs, referrals, NJP are killers.

Good strats and pushes early with regression is worse than steady improvement. Top performers start as mid Capts and sustain.

[GearMonkey]

JCS/OSD is the best, then joint staff, then Air Staff, then MAJCOM. I've seen some recent speeding on OPRs and PRFs with push lines so MAJCOM next stands out as low performer.

I love that USAF assigns value to this differentiation despite the fact the person will be a nameless slide jockey at any of these locations.

[Liquid]

Monkey, Mav is not a slide jockey at JSOC. Not all staff jobs are useless. For every experience you have with staffs and support sucking and wasting taxpayer dollars I can counter with crew dogs who min run it, contribute little and waste the taxpayer investment in their training. Don't be so naive to think you don't need quality AOs in the staff to get shit done. And don't think getting rid of all staffs will solve our problems. Senior raters discriminate with push lines so help the board identify the bottom 10-20%. Surprise.

[Slander]

Senior raters discriminate with push lines so help the board identify the bottom 10-20%. Surprise.

Why can't we just write "My #9/10 FGO, not terribly hard working, mediocre results outside of flying. Great line pilot, keep in CAF/MAF" instead of writing our performance reports in lemon juice for the boards to read by candlelight?

[Liquid]

Slander, same result, fewer hurt feelings. CCs and raters should give honest feedback. They don't because people are too sensitive. They get butt hurt and quit. Many on this forum can't grasp the concept of not promoting everyone, using 1 to n strats and the AF not valuing people who don't give a shit. Go get your trophy somewhere else, we have wars to fight and not everyone gets promoted. Fire away. Happy 4th.

[Skitzo]

Maybe trying to avoid what I call the reverse halo effect. Once a shit bag always a shitbag?

[GearMonkey]

Not all staff jobs are useless.

I never said they were.

I'm sure there are important O-4 & O-5 jobs at all of these staffs which is why the whole idea of one being better than the other is retarded. I'm sure there are plenty of MAJCOM staff dirtbags who have a bigger impact than their joint or HAF peers. Too bad the Air Force is too wrapped up in it's secret code to recognize that it is based on a false premise.

[guineapigfury]

Slander, same result, fewer hurt feelings. CCs and raters should give honest feedback. They don't because people are too sensitive. They get butt hurt and quit. Many on this forum can't grasp the concept of not promoting everyone, using 1 to n strats and the AF not valuing people who don't give a shit. Go get your trophy somewhere else, we have wars to fight and not everyone gets promoted. Fire away. Happy 4th.

In addition to that, I always assumed OPR/EPRs were inflated so people who separated would still have something shiny to show possible employers when they're looking for a job. Below average guys get to walk out the door with prospects intact, promotion boards can read between the lines for what they're actually looking for. I think it's the same way with PCS medals. Big Blue gets to do something strat like for $0.69 of ribbon and tin, and if a guy gets the "wrong" medal the civilian HR guy with no military experience thinks "WOW! This guy has 3 Air Force Achievement Medals!"

[busdriver]

The premise is that you send your best dudes to the "higher level" staffs, you wouldn't push a retard to the joint staff where he'd embarrass himself and the entire service. There are problems with this, sure (ie MAJCOM isn't the top, but if you put a ding dong in A8 you get crappy upgrades to your MDS, or AFCENT long range plans doesn't look as good as HAF, but that dude has a larger impact on the force in the short term, etc, etc)

As to just rating #/N FGO, while it sounds more clear cut than what we do now, it still doesn't account for organizational strength. Top third at the 57th wing is not the same as top third at another wing

The boards have something like 60-90 seconds to look at a record, they don't have time to look at anything subjectively. So the lower level commanders have to do that and somehow translate that subjective evaluation into a number of some kind, if they don't and only push the box checks forward that's when we run into trouble.

[Liquid]

You said nameless slide jockey. WTF did you mean then? What is the false premise?

In addition to that, I always assumed OPR/EPRs were inflated so people who separated would still have something shiny to show possible employers when they're looking for a job. Below average guys get to walk out the door with prospects intact, promotion boards can read between the lines for what they're actually looking for. I think it's the same way with PCS medals. Big Blue gets to do something strat like for $0.69 of ribbon and tin, and if a guy gets the "wrong" medal the civilian HR guy with no military experience thinks "WOW! This guy has 3 Air Force Achievement Medals!"

You guys and your stupid ass infatuation with the number 69. F*ing retards.

[HossHarris]

You guys and your stupid ass infatuation with the number 69. F*ing retards.

Give a try sometime.

Your boyfriend might enjoy it

/Zing!

//not that there's anything wrong with that

[Vetter]

You guys and your stupid ass infatuation with the number 69. F*ing retards.

This says volume about this jackass. Never trust a person who can't laugh at 69.

[Liquid]

This says volume about this jackass. Never trust a person who can't laugh at 69.

Head, box, rape songs, call signs, 69 and sts. Moronic, with a shelf life. Say goodbye to this dumb ass culture. Bitch all you want, we won't miss it.