Danny Noonin Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Holy shit, you just can't help but act like a fucking idiot, can you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Right? No. Accurate? Not really. "Rounding out" via squares... Descriping the past, current, and future situation? Absolutely. The ones that recognize how the game is played "successfully" regarding higher rank and positions of authority/change, then proceed to attempt to make it better, are the ultimate goal keepers. The rest of them that adhere to/praise/never want the system to change are you... Each of us has to look himself in the mirror in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Also applies to Ho's alternate personality here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaPWwyC6CDI Proficiency in the primary job is assumed once senior leaders push you for the "box-checking" opportunities. Because blind assumption never fails. Edit: why do you want the system to stay as-is? It can be improved upon. Edited February 17, 2015 by SurelySerious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thank you. I was beginning to think the only people who post on BODN are idiots who think a guy with experience only at the squadron-level should be the next CSAF, but am relieved to see voices of sanity like Ho are still posting. Exec, school, command, staff...they're ALL important to round-out our future GOs. Proficiency in the primary job is assumed once senior leaders push you for the "box-checking" opportunities. It's never going to change, because it never should. Thank heavens most of you on this forum aren't in KLPs. I thank my lucky stars. Go ahead and bash me. Deep down, you know I'm right. Ah, the KLPs. So you think that many of us don't have the influence that you wish to get someday? Men, here's my guess. Chang volunteered for one of those exec jobs, probably above the sq level. Maybe he's on a staff somewhere and thus because of his "position" and the dude he hears everyday, he's a really swell leader. But he is most likely one of those that I mentioned earlier, a dude that knows the exec gets good paper and thus promotion and jobs. So he plays the game and drops terms like KLPs. Because this is the way he's gotten this far in the AF, it has to be the best way because he thinks he's the best. "It's never going to change, because it never should" is how we will continue to have shitty bosses and the Chang pathway will remain open. You are right though chang, the exec pathway will not change and there will always be a shoe path for you because the best will not always want it. Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn15 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 “Tiger, one day you will come to a fork in the road,” he said. “And you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go.” He raised his hand and pointed. “If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments.” Then Boyd raised his other hand and pointed another direction. “Or you can go that way and you can do something – something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide you want to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won’t have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference.” He paused and stared into the officer’s eyes and heart. “To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do. Which way will you go? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 So to change the subject up a bit. Does anyone have any insight into what the promotion board was looking for specifically during this past December board for major? Our AAD's were masked and our status for SOS indicated simply whether it was complete or not. Did this make things easier or harder for the board? I had a friend not promoted and this individual checked all of the boxes. I do not know exactly what boxes this individual checked, but I assume the board saw something that excluded him from promotion. I remember you guys/gals saying some people think too highly of themselves in regard to promotion and the promotion board will usually get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Chang Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Every time I read one of Chang's posts..... Thank you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dupe Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 So to change the subject up a bit. Does anyone have any insight into what the promotion board was looking for specifically during this past December board for major? Our AAD's were masked and our status for SOS indicated simply whether it was complete or not. Did this make things easier or harder for the board? I had a friend not promoted and this individual checked all of the boxes. I do not know exactly what boxes this individual checked, but I assume the board saw something that excluded him from promotion. I remember you guys/gals saying some people think too highly of themselves in regard to promotion and the promotion board will usually get it right. My gut opinion: Senior raters have very few tools to delineate the middle of the pack. The current system is really good at highlighting rock stars, but is pretty bad at providing grainularity in the middle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Exec, school, command, staff...they're ALL important to round-out our future GOs. Proficiency in the primary job is assumed once senior leaders push you for the "box-checking" opportunities. It's never going to change, because it never should. Thank heavens most of you on this forum aren't in KLPs. I thank my lucky stars. I see the point that a guy who is going to lead at Wing and above level needs broad based experiences to be an effective leader at that level, but do you really think changing happy to glad or getting a bullet all the way to the end of the block on an OPR is a consequential development in the process of an effective AF senior officer? I get that there is an administrative, day to day aspect to the role of a leader but there is a point that once a person is so involved in that world they loose sight of the fact that we are actually supposed to fly airplanes, man missile stations, patrol flight lines, fix airplanes, etc.... it becomes background noise while they are responding to another pointless email with the subject "Hot Tasker!" You know I am right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDiggler Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 So to change the subject up a bit. Does anyone have any insight into what the promotion board was looking for specifically during this past December board for major? Our AAD's were masked and our status for SOS indicated simply whether it was complete or not. Did this make things easier or harder for the board? I had a friend not promoted and this individual checked all of the boxes. I do not know exactly what boxes this individual checked, but I assume the board saw something that excluded him from promotion. I remember you guys/gals saying some people think too highly of themselves in regard to promotion and the promotion board will usually get it right. FWIW, my community had several APZ guys get picked up on this last board, guys that had been passed over previously for not having their "boxes checked" in some form or fashion. I regarded this a positive sign, maybe the ship's course is moving the direction we want. Liquid posted a list of items that were proposed as discriminators to the CSAF several pages back in this thread I believe, that would probably be a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thank you. I was beginning to think the only people who post on BODN are idiots. Chang, if you are indeed USAF leadership (which by your comments, all indications are yes you are indeed), you prove just about everything I've said about the way we choose leaders in the USAF as correct....we promote (not always but too often) out of touch, careerist square fillers who can't identify with the other 69% who actually keep this bureaucratic inefficient mess of a system up and running. I'll take my 3,000 hrs of flying, numerous deployments, a real world job working in NATO and filling A LTC billet as a Capt at the wing to your exec learning how to create an outlook calendar and maxwell school taught how would Clausewitz fight ISIS lessons learned ppt bullsh!t anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Chang, if you are indeed USAF leadership (which by your comments, all indications are yes you are indeed), What gives you that impression? The only thing that I see is constant trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Chang Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Chang, if you are indeed USAF leadership (which by your comments, all indications are yes you are indeed), you prove just about everything I've said about the way we choose leaders in the USAF as correct....we promote (not always but too often) out of touch, careerist square fillers who can't identify with the other 69% who actually keep this bureaucratic inefficient mess of a system up and running. I'll take my 3,000 hrs of flying, numerous deployments, a real world job working in NATO and filling A LTC billet as a Capt at the wing to your exec learning how to create an outlook calendar and maxwell school taught how would Clausewitz fight ISIS lessons learned ppt bullsh!t anyday. To each his own. Unlike you, I do not begrudge flyboys who take that career path. However, for the sake of any unfortunate souls that you lead, I hope that you do not present your anti-careerist thoughts to them (if you're even a flight commander, which I know, from an "opportunity for true leadership" perspective, doesn't mean as much in the rated community as it does the non-rated). Your hatred for those of us who were selected to "fill the leadership squares" is unbecoming and disturbing. If you have subordinates, do them a favor and "hide" your...brand...of leadership. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Chang Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 What gives you that impression? The only thing that I see is constant trolling. Champ, I normally don't quote from your posts because your thoughts are bitter and unhelpful. Today is no exception. Gentlemen, I truly believe you are not the heinous, bitter officers in real life that you appear to be on this blog, as you hide behind your avatars. If you are, then I ask that you really consider what comes out of your mouths as you "counsel" the next generation. The AF personnel system is not/has not ever been out to disadvantage rated officers (as is evidenced by the overwhelming number of rated Colonels who become Generals), nor are the tough personnel decisions over the last few years taken lightly or without a good deal of research. If the system and the leaders of that system bother you to the point of losing sleep, then get off of your computers and do something about it. Work your tails off and become senior leaders yourselves. Yes, it takes hard work and sacrifice, but if you feel so strongly that things are horrible, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I would welcome your fresh, positive ideas in the puzzle palace. When you complain every waking moment, you are of little value to your family, your unit, or the Air Force at large. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 To each his own. Unlike you, I do not begrudge flyboys who take that career path. However, for the sake of any unfortunate souls that you lead, I hope that you do not present your anti-careerist thoughts to them (if you're even a flight commander, which I know, from an "opportunity for true leadership" perspective, doesn't mean as much in the rated community as it does the non-rated). Your hatred for those of us who were selected to "fill the leadership squares" is unbecoming and disturbing. If you have subordinates, do them a favor and "hide" your...brand...of leadership. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 if you feel so strongly that things are horrible, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT We are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Chang Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 We are. Very well. If you leave, I wish you well. If you stay, I hope you become an asset, not a hindrance, to your leaders who are doing their best to shape the future of the most lethal force on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Very well. If you leave, I wish you well. If you stay, I hope you become an asset, not a hindrance, to your leaders who are doing their best to shape the future of the most lethal force on earth. If you only knew, troll.... I'm curious, what have you personally done to move the ball forward in this military organization? What have you done to help in the execution of our core competencies? Do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Chang Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 If you only knew, troll.... I'm curious, what have you personally done to move the ball forward in this military organization? What have you done to help in the execution of our core competencies? Do tell. I'm proud of the personnel work my FGOs and I have done on more issues than you could count. Deride it, doesn't matter...but I welcome positive, constructive thoughts, not the drivel you often post. You sound like a bitter squadron CGO that has never been exposed to complicated, strategic issues (hit the nail on the head, didn't I?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Try again. /troll_encouragement Edited February 17, 2015 by Champ Kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 If you have subordinates, do them a favor and "hide" your...brand...of leadership. Ha, Chang, you have no clue. You think from my posts I'm bitter? I'm just pointing out some well known problems that leaders like yourself are either too stupid or out of touch to acknowledge. I'm truly trying to help the AF that I love. "Hide" my brand of leadership? Hell no, someone has to stand up to the madness. One of the reasons I have been highly successful with both officer and enlisted subordinates is I don't "hide" things...I don't play AF games, people see that and LOVE it. I see a stupid rule...I try to change it. I see a worthless ppt presentation....I cut it. I see a jackass fast burner being a jerk to subordinates, I call him out. I've proudly not played the game, and it's cost me a few career points but the satisfaction I get from having a steady stream of officers, civilians and enlisted tell me the USAF needs more people like me....it keeps me going. You think guys like me are causing bitter attitudes?? Get real. The guys causing the problems are the guys like you, who can't understand the core basic issues with things like morale, micromanagement, wasted time/resources, lack of mission focus, etc. Your welcome Chang...I'm constantly working to fix f-ups caused by people like you. No sweat. I'll keep doing it. You just stay oblivious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The AF personnel system is not/has not ever been out to disadvantage rated officers (as is evidenced by the overwhelming number of rated Colonels who become Generals) Good god, dude this is not a rated vs non-rated thing. No one is angry at (insert non-rated officer position) getting promoted. Everyone is a cog in the giant Air Force machine. But those cogs are people with lives, and that seems to get lost by people too long on staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The AF personnel system is not/has not ever been out to disadvantage rated officers (as is evidenced by the overwhelming number of rated Colonels who become Generals), nor are the tough personnel decisions over the last few years taken lightly or without a good deal of research. I beg to differ. To get a rated slot is competitive (either against your ROTC or OTS peers or by virtue of being able to get into the zoo). So you would think that those of us who merited top x% initially would have a better promotion rate. Unfortunately this isn't the case when you look at the results of promotion boards. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thank you. I was beginning to think the only people who post on BODN are idiots who think a guy with experience only at the squadron-level should be the next CSAF, but am relieved to see voices of sanity like Ho are still posting. Exec, school, command, staff...they're ALL important to round-out our future GOs. Proficiency in the primary job is assumed once senior leaders push you for the "box-checking" opportunities. It's never going to change, because it never should. Thank heavens most of you on this forum aren't in KLPs. I thank my lucky stars. Go ahead and bash me. Deep down, you know I'm right. Perhaps. But where the system fails the other 90% of us is when it doesn't realize not everyone WANTS to be a general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Chang Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Good god, dude this is not a rated vs non-rated thing. No one is angry at (insert non-rated officer position) getting promoted. Everyone is a cog in the giant Air Force machine. But those cogs are people with lives, and that seems to get lost by people too long on staff. Agree...trying to head off a "rated v. non-rated" argument at the pass by conceding we are an AF run by pilots (as we should be...it is the Air Force, after all).I beg to differ. To get a rated slot is competitive (either against your ROTC or OTS peers or by virtue of being able to get into the zoo). So you would think that those of us who merited top x% initially would have a better promotion rate. Unfortunately this isn't the case when you look at the results of promotion boards. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Distinguishing Line AFSCs at promotion boards is a discussion that continues and is worth considering, although I don't think you would see a drastic difference in the promotion rates if it were to occur. Promoting more pilots simply because they passed through a screening when the majority of them were 21-22 years-old is not (and actually 16-17 years-old based on your USAFA argument). Goodness, most of you complain that we identify our "high speeders" too early...now you want to give certain people an asterisk at the Board because they competed for pilot slots when they were still kids? I'm sorry...that one is a non-starter.Ha, Chang, you have no clue. You think from my posts I'm bitter? I'm just pointing out some well known problems that leaders like yourself are either too stupid or out of touch to acknowledge. I'm truly trying to help the AF that I love. "Hide" my brand of leadership? Hell no, someone has to stand up to the madness. One of the reasons I have been highly successful with both officer and enlisted subordinates is I don't "hide" things...I don't play AF games, people see that and LOVE it. I see a stupid rule...I try to change it. I see a worthless ppt presentation....I cut it. I see a jackass fast burner being a jerk to subordinates, I call him out. I've proudly not played the game, and it's cost me a few career points but the satisfaction I get from having a steady stream of officers, civilians and enlisted tell me the USAF needs more people like me....it keeps me going. You think guys like me are causing bitter attitudes?? Get real. The guys causing the problems are the guys like you, who can't understand the core basic issues with things like morale, micromanagement, wasted time/resources, lack of mission focus, etc. Your welcome Chang...I'm constantly working to fix f-ups caused by people like you. No sweat. I'll keep doing it. You just stay oblivious. I'm a lucky man to have your vast expertise fixing all of my daily mistakes. Thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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